Using JRiver convolver for external sources

[Ofer]

Hi everyone,
My attempts to use AL standalone convolver for playing external spdif source have been futile (see my post baby steps with AL). I was wondering if there is anyone who tried using JRiver convoler with an external source pluged to the soundcard? preferably with an RME card.

 

[jjazdk]

I have used the JRiver convolver with external sources, with an Atlas Sound card and with a Scarlett as well. So, yes, that does work.

 

[Ofer]

Thanks, is switching between filters a streamline process? can you assign presets or something like that? or is it basic file menu open file etc.

 

[jrobbins50]

Thanks, is switching between filters a streamline process? can you assign presets or something like that? or is it basic file menu open file etc.

I’ve been over to listen to the new all Wilson 7.1.4 system that Chris Connaker of audiophilestyle.com has put together. He runs his AL filters created by Mitch through JRiver. I did notice that he manually was changing the filter set when moving from 24/48 Atmos files to 24/96 and 24/192 standard MCH files. This may mean that there is not a preset system in JRiver. @Mitchco can likely confirm. JCR

 

[Michael Boeker]

JRiver can automatically switch filters for sample rates.

 

[jrobbins50]

Ok, Chris confirms the above and clarified his issue with me:

Sample rate switches are easy, but channel configuration switches are hard.

For example,

A 5.1 album has speakers numbered 1 = Front Left, 2 = Front Right, Center = 3, LFE = 4, Rear Left = 5, Rear Right = 6
A 4.0 album has speakers numbered 1 = Front Left, 2 = Front Right, 3 = Rear Left, 4 = Rear Right

Without any channel mapping that changes based on the number of channels being played, the 4.0 track will play the front right and left just fine, but the rear left will go to the center channel and the rear right will go to the LFE. It’ll just play to the first four channels.

I don’t believe JRiver can auto select both the sample rate and number of channels. I could be wrong though.”

But, back to the original topic. JCR

 

[Ofer]

OK thanks. I have never used JRiver. Can someone explain how to configure it for use of external source through the convolver?

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I don’t believe JRiver can auto select both the sample rate and number of channels. I could be wrong though.”

Yes, it does. Just set Output Format -> Channels to the system config (and not Output Formatting). Mine is set right now to 5.1 channels and I am playing a 4.0 channel source via a VST3 5.1 plug-in with all channels mapped properly.

 

[jrobbins50]

Thanks, Kal. I passed your note on to Chris. JCR

 

[Ofer]

Yes, it does. Just set Output Format -> Channels to the system config (and not Output Formatting). Mine is set right now to 5.1 channels and I am playing a 4.0 channel source via a VST3 5.1 plug-in with all channels mapped properly.

So if I use a 3way active xover with sub. Totaling 7 channels with AL I should opt for 5.2 is JRiver? And downmix to 2.1 or 2 as this is a stereo setup?

 

[Kal Rubinson]

So if I use a 3way active xover with sub. Totaling 7 channels with AL I should opt for 5.2 is JRiver? And downmix to 2.1 or 2 as this is a stereo setup?

Oh. I was not thinking of active multiamping. The answer will depend on where/how in the signal path you are doing the c/o. Frankly, I have very little experience with that.

 

[Ofer]

Can anyone please explain how to configure JRiver to play from spdif source through the convoler? What are the steps one needs to take?
Another thing, when configured to use external sources does JRiver become like a "preamp" i.e. can you choose a source manually or does it changes automatically?

 

[juicehifi]

So if I use a 3way active xover with sub. Totaling 7 channels with AL I should opt for 5.2 is JRiver? And downmix to 2.1 or 2 as this is a stereo setup?

5.2 in jriver and silence in unused channels.

 

[Ofer]

OK. So here is what was achieved so far. Using the sample measurement that is shipped with AL I have managed to use both JR embedded convolver and AL convolver as JR asio sound card to correctly route all six channels to their corresponding outputs on the RME interface. Actually it was pretty seamless. Unfortunately I wasn't able to route an external input using open live asio in JR as described by @jjazdk. I used the guide attached. The last part refers to selecting the channel offset. It doesn't explain how to find the correct channel offset, 28 in the case presented. The mapping of the ff can be found here:

Unable to get ASIO Line In to work with an RME Fireface 800

Unable to get ASIO Line In to work with an RME Fireface 800

yabb.jriver.com

I tried it both with JR convolver and AL convolver. ASIO either hangs or displays an error. So still no workable solution.

 

[John Warden]

I'm not familiar with this particular example, but going from my previous experience of TotalMix, the offset is 28 because ADAT 15/16 are the 29th and 30th software playback channels (ADAT channels start after 14 other channels: 8 analogue, 4 phone and 2 AES). That's where the number 28 for channel offset comes from.

Is your mapping of the input channel (via loopback) to software playback correct? Clearly you need to modify the example since you're not using an analogue input. Apologies if you've already done that

Hope that helps.

 

[Ofer]

Hi @John Warden , while digging for a solution I found this thread that explains the mapping.

Unable to get ASIO Line In to work with an RME Fireface 800

Unable to get ASIO Line In to work with an RME Fireface 800

yabb.jriver.com

So I have used offset 12 for my ADAT yet it didn't work. Even at the thread above they were unsuccessful. There might be an issue of the communication between RME/Totalmix to JRiver. Though I couldn't get is to work with AL convolver either. Were you able to do what I need with an RME card?

 

[John Warden]

Were you able to do what I need with an RME card?

Sorry, but I didn't. My application was different. It was a while ago and I no longer have that RME card. Hope you find the solution.

 

[John Warden]

One other random though which may well be irrelevant or something you have already considered ... The total channel count on my RME ADI-2 FS varies with different operating frequencies. So, from memory, 22 channels at 44.1/48 but fewer at higher sample rates, changing many individual channel numbers. But I'm using mine in class compliant mode with a Linux OS on RPi, so this may be entirely irrelevant.

 

[Ofer]

Update: I got it to partially work when I set the audio output to WASAPI RME instead of ASIO RME. Not is sends the sound to outputs 1&2 instead of 1-6. The sound in 1&2 seems to be convolved as 1 is base and 2 is mid but the rest of the channels don't play this is true when playing files from pc as well. So going to WDM RME disabled channels 3-6 in the convolver. This is some ride.

 

[juicehifi]

You can also set Windows to "listen" to the external input channel. And with jriver as default Audio, whatever's coming in will be routed through jriver. But this may involve two very different streaming methods for the sound card, so "try before you buy".

 

[Ofer]

I am not sure I follow. Is that in the recording or playback of windows sound? would I be able to stream local files that way or each time I want to listen to local files I will have to change windows sound?

 

[juicehifi]

Recording channels

 

[Ofer]

OK tried it. It now plays through channels 1+2 as before and 7+8 that are not supposed to be active as the convolver is 1-6. If there I could only understand the logic of this system.

update:
In the following settings convolution of external source worked but audio is very choppy. I use VB-cable (not hifi cable) as default sound player.
Open windows sound in the recording tab choose SPDIF as default sound and in the listen tab tick listen to this device.
In the player tab choose vb-cable (needs to be installed as administrator)

On JRiver File>open live>wasapi playback
Now the sound is convolved through all 6 channels but it is choppy. All audio devices, recording and playback, are set to the same sample rate. I tried to change buffer sizes in both sound-card and JR with no success. it feels closer but not there yet....

 

[Ofer]

Success finally!
Thanks to @juicehifi suggestion to listen to same device I finally got this task to work properly. Here is how I have done it.
1. In totalmix settings I have created 5 WDM devices. This way the spdif channel was available in the windows sound recording tab.
2. In windows sound >recording I chose spdif to be the default and in properties>listen ticked the listen to this device.
3. JRiver tools>options>general>features tick WDM playback and restart program.
4. Now JRiver plays all windows sounds through its convolver on the top of the player you should see Ipc and counter. Since the spdif is routed straight to the windows player it is routed to JRiver. Now the spdif plays through JRiver with convoltion no cracks etc.
ASIO/wassapi open live just didn't work with my interface. Now I can finally hookup the system and start measuring and creating filters.
Many more questions will probably come.
Thanks to all those who helped (tried) and gave ideas.

 

[mccarty350]

Congrats Ofer! You have been fighting this one for it seems like forever, cherish your victory over the weekend