My Audiolense Experience (JBL M2)

jtwrace

Member
Thread Starter
Joined
Mar 12, 2019
Messages
129
Location
Orlando, FL
My AV System  
Main Amp
(4) Hypex NC502MP
DAC
Topping D90
Front Speakers
JBL M2
Subwoofers
(2) Rythmik FM8, (1) UM18, (1) Custom DIY Ciare 18
Other Speakers or Equipment
BSS BLU 50
Streaming Equipment
RPi4 using RopieeeXL
Streaming Subscriptions
Tidal
Other Equipment
All Belden 1800F and 1313A
In 2019, I purchased Audiolense XO to try. Long story short, I couldn't get it to work due to an odd error I kept getting. Fast forward to 7 months ago when I interviewed Mitch on my podcast here. The more we talked, the more I wanted to try Audiolense. After the podcast Mitch asked me if I was going to try it and I explained my previous issue. He mentioned to me that anomaly was just solved a month prior.

For the next few months I had to decide on how I wanted to handle the MCH DAC and Roon Core setup. I built a W10 NUCi7 connected directly to a Motu UltraLite Mk5.

@Mitchco charges a modest $500 for the filter creation and also helping you along the way with what issue(s) might come along. For most of us, time is of the essence and a positive result is critical so I thought it would be worth paying the money to have someone hold my hand through the process and hopefully not ruin anything either thus making the $500 minimal. ;)

Mitch might be the most patient man I've ever dealt with on so many levels. He taught me how to count to 8, using 0-7 for routing (you might be surprised how much of a mind boggler this is) among a timing issue during measurement I had. My point is simple, if you're already to this point, just pay the money and make your life a bit easier and know that you have a highly experienced user creating filters for you. The cherry on top is at the end he sends you the file to create your own along with the directions to do so.

If you've made it this far you're asking how does it sound, right? Well, look at the measurements! Translation - Amazing! After about 6 filters I settled on one that I preferred. I can't say enough about Mitch and Bernt of what they have accomplished.

This is not your typical Digital Room Correction (DRC) where phase and timing is NOT corrected. This is SOTA digital crossovers, frequency correction and true time domain correction which now make up my stereo 4 way digital XO system.




Audiolense
Jason digital XO fr.jpg


Jason digital XO step.jpg


I then confirmed the results with REW

Jason frequency response.jpg


Jason Step response.jpg


Jason Phase response.jpg


Routing.jpg
 
Last edited:

2234rew

Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2020
Messages
241
Really great and amazing speakers.

The amazing thing is with Audiolense XO I have achieve very similar measurements with DIY DSP active speakers for much much less money

:p
 

JStewart

AV Addict
Supporter
Joined
Dec 5, 2017
Messages
1,300
Location
Central FL
Having had the privilege of hearing your M2 set up beforehand, I had a difficult time believing that amazing experience could be improved upon, so it’s really great to hear this project worked out so well as it was not without a significant time and expense commitment.

The JBL M2s are an outstanding speaker with outstanding off axis response.
Did you choose to apply filters to the full frequency range, limit correction to the model region, or other?
 

jtwrace

Member
Thread Starter
Joined
Mar 12, 2019
Messages
129
Location
Orlando, FL
My AV System  
Main Amp
(4) Hypex NC502MP
DAC
Topping D90
Front Speakers
JBL M2
Subwoofers
(2) Rythmik FM8, (1) UM18, (1) Custom DIY Ciare 18
Other Speakers or Equipment
BSS BLU 50
Streaming Equipment
RPi4 using RopieeeXL
Streaming Subscriptions
Tidal
Other Equipment
All Belden 1800F and 1313A
Having had the privilege of hearing your M2 set up beforehand, I had a difficult time believing that amazing experience could be improved upon, so it’s really great to hear this project worked out so well as it was not without a significant time and expense commitment.

The JBL M2s are an outstanding speaker with outstanding off axis response.
Did you choose to apply filters to the full frequency range, limit correction to the model region, or other?
All I'll say is you haven't heard nothin'. :)
 

jtwrace

Member
Thread Starter
Joined
Mar 12, 2019
Messages
129
Location
Orlando, FL
My AV System  
Main Amp
(4) Hypex NC502MP
DAC
Topping D90
Front Speakers
JBL M2
Subwoofers
(2) Rythmik FM8, (1) UM18, (1) Custom DIY Ciare 18
Other Speakers or Equipment
BSS BLU 50
Streaming Equipment
RPi4 using RopieeeXL
Streaming Subscriptions
Tidal
Other Equipment
All Belden 1800F and 1313A
@juicehifi question for you. Mitch has mentioned to me that using your Convolver and ASIO Bridge will allow me to route my LG TV into my dac and through my system.

LG > Optical Input to Motu Ultralite Mk5? Convolver goes on my RoonServer NUC? I'd like to work on this over the next couple of weeks as I'll have the time to wrestle with it. ;) Then December it's "upgrade" time to the rear subs! :unbelievable:
 

JStewart

AV Addict
Supporter
Joined
Dec 5, 2017
Messages
1,300
Location
Central FL
All I'll say is you haven't heard nothin'. :)
That’s frightening, in a good way.

I read with great interest Erin’s Klippel M2 measurements as well as saw your actual in-room measurements on @Mitchco ’s most excellent video, too. :T


(Bummer that ASR thread went sideways.)

With luck, I’ll be able to reach out to Mitch for some help after the new year.
 

jtwrace

Member
Thread Starter
Joined
Mar 12, 2019
Messages
129
Location
Orlando, FL
My AV System  
Main Amp
(4) Hypex NC502MP
DAC
Topping D90
Front Speakers
JBL M2
Subwoofers
(2) Rythmik FM8, (1) UM18, (1) Custom DIY Ciare 18
Other Speakers or Equipment
BSS BLU 50
Streaming Equipment
RPi4 using RopieeeXL
Streaming Subscriptions
Tidal
Other Equipment
All Belden 1800F and 1313A
When you're not too busy you'll need to come again for a listen. Need any subs? :)
 

juicehifi

Audiolense
Staff member
Joined
Feb 5, 2018
Messages
456
@juicehifi question for you. Mitch has mentioned to me that using your Convolver and ASIO Bridge will allow me to route my LG TV into my dac and through my system.

LG > Optical Input to Motu Ultralite Mk5? Convolver goes on my RoonServer NUC? I'd like to work on this over the next couple of weeks as I'll have the time to wrestle with it. ;) Then December it's "upgrade" time to the rear subs! :unbelievable:
I am uncertaion about how this will work, due to different clocks on the two streams. However, for all I know, the synchronisation may be handled by Windows + Asio Bridge. Certainly worth trying.

Another approach is to watch web TV instead ... if you are rigged to do so. It will mean using the LG TV as a monitor only. And that approach works without problems.
 

jtwrace

Member
Thread Starter
Joined
Mar 12, 2019
Messages
129
Location
Orlando, FL
My AV System  
Main Amp
(4) Hypex NC502MP
DAC
Topping D90
Front Speakers
JBL M2
Subwoofers
(2) Rythmik FM8, (1) UM18, (1) Custom DIY Ciare 18
Other Speakers or Equipment
BSS BLU 50
Streaming Equipment
RPi4 using RopieeeXL
Streaming Subscriptions
Tidal
Other Equipment
All Belden 1800F and 1313A
I am uncertaion about how this will work, due to different clocks on the two streams. However, for all I know, the synchronisation may be handled by Windows + Asio Bridge. Certainly worth trying.

Another approach is to watch web TV instead ... if you are rigged to do so. It will mean using the LG TV as a monitor only. And that approach works without problems.
I only use YouTube TV. Is that what you mean by web tv? If so, what is the process then?
 

2234rew

Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2020
Messages
241
I only use YouTube TV. Is that what you mean by web tv?
Yes, TV via a web browser , not TV aerial.

Then it's just a matter of creating a zero latency correction filter (min phase XO and min phase room correction). This is to avoid lip sync. Can be 65k taps.

Hookup NUC to TV, as Bernt mentioned (HDMI cable).

Use convolver with ASIO Bridge.

Play system sound to ASIO Bridge.

Setup ASIO Bridge to play to USB interface.

Hope for the best :)

Lots of us are doing this. I have a thread dedicated to doing this with macOS but I have done it with Windows too, with success.

It's really just about routing system audio to your speakers - it's nothing specific to TV viewing.

Can be YouTube, Netflix, Spotify, SoundCloud, whatever, playing to ASIO Bridge.
 

Ofer

New Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2021
Messages
114
My AV System  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
miniDSP 4x10hd
Main Amp
Emotiva XPR200 midrange amp
Additional Amp
Crest audio 2001A bass amp
Other Amp
Rotel RA930ax twitter amp
Computer Audio
Sony Bravia android TV
DAC
miniDSP 4*10HD
Front Speakers
Andromeda MkII
Screen
Sony bravia 65XF9005
Streaming Subscriptions
Deezer HiFi
Other Equipment
Marantz original 5E CD
Yes, TV via a web browser , not TV aerial.

Then it's just a matter of creating a zero latency correction filter (min phase XO and min phase room correction). This is to avoid lip sync. Can be 65k taps.

Hookup NUC to TV, as Bernt mentioned (HDMI cable).

Use convolver with ASIO Bridge.

Play system sound to ASIO Bridge.

Setup ASIO Bridge to play to USB interface.

Hope for the best :)

Lots of us are doing this. I have a thread dedicated to doing this with macOS but I have done it with Windows too, with success.

It's really just about routing system audio to your speakers - it's nothing specific to TV viewing.

Can be YouTube, Netflix, Spotify, SoundCloud, whatever, playing to ASIO Bridge.
Netflix 4k need a very demanding computer to watch. That is why it might be needed to route the TV through the optical input of the audio interface and not use the computer to web watch. Is it possible to do so?
 

Ofer

New Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2021
Messages
114
My AV System  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
miniDSP 4x10hd
Main Amp
Emotiva XPR200 midrange amp
Additional Amp
Crest audio 2001A bass amp
Other Amp
Rotel RA930ax twitter amp
Computer Audio
Sony Bravia android TV
DAC
miniDSP 4*10HD
Front Speakers
Andromeda MkII
Screen
Sony bravia 65XF9005
Streaming Subscriptions
Deezer HiFi
Other Equipment
Marantz original 5E CD
In 2019, I purchased Audiolense XO to try. Long story short, I couldn't get it to work due to an odd error I kept getting. Fast forward to 7 months ago when I interviewed Mitch on my podcast here. The more we talked, the more I wanted to try Audiolense. After the podcast Mitch asked me if I was going to try it and I explained my previous issue. He mentioned to me that anomaly was just solved a month prior.

For the next few months I had to decide on how I wanted to handle the MCH DAC and Roon Core setup. I built a W10 NUCi7 connected directly to a Motu UltraLite Mk5.

@Mitchco charges a modest $500 for the filter creation and also helping you along the way with what issue(s) might come along. For most of us, time is of the essence and a positive result is critical so I thought it would be worth paying the money to have someone hold my hand through the process and hopefully not ruin anything either thus making the $500 minimal. ;)

Mitch might be the most patient man I've ever dealt with on so many levels. He taught me how to count to 8, using 0-7 for routing (you might be surprised how much of a mind boggler this is) among a timing issue during measurement I had. My point is simple, if you're already to this point, just pay the money and make your life a bit easier and know that you have a highly experienced user creating filters for you. The cherry on top is at the end he sends you the file to create your own along with the directions to do so.

If you've made it this far you're asking how does it sound, right? Well, look at the measurements! Translation - Amazing! After about 6 filters I settled on one that I preferred. I can't say enough about Mitch and Bernt of what they have accomplished.

This is not your typical Digital Room Correction (DRC) where phase and timing is NOT corrected. This is SOTA digital crossovers, frequency correction and true time domain correction which now make up my stereo 4 way digital XO system.




Audiolense
View attachment 45748

View attachment 45747

I then confirmed the results with REW

View attachment 45749

View attachment 45750

View attachment 45751

View attachment 45752
Sounds amazing. Could you post the before and after REW measurements?
 

jtwrace

Member
Thread Starter
Joined
Mar 12, 2019
Messages
129
Location
Orlando, FL
My AV System  
Main Amp
(4) Hypex NC502MP
DAC
Topping D90
Front Speakers
JBL M2
Subwoofers
(2) Rythmik FM8, (1) UM18, (1) Custom DIY Ciare 18
Other Speakers or Equipment
BSS BLU 50
Streaming Equipment
RPi4 using RopieeeXL
Streaming Subscriptions
Tidal
Other Equipment
All Belden 1800F and 1313A

Ofer

New Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2021
Messages
114
My AV System  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
miniDSP 4x10hd
Main Amp
Emotiva XPR200 midrange amp
Additional Amp
Crest audio 2001A bass amp
Other Amp
Rotel RA930ax twitter amp
Computer Audio
Sony Bravia android TV
DAC
miniDSP 4*10HD
Front Speakers
Andromeda MkII
Screen
Sony bravia 65XF9005
Streaming Subscriptions
Deezer HiFi
Other Equipment
Marantz original 5E CD
Last edited:

jtwrace

Member
Thread Starter
Joined
Mar 12, 2019
Messages
129
Location
Orlando, FL
My AV System  
Main Amp
(4) Hypex NC502MP
DAC
Topping D90
Front Speakers
JBL M2
Subwoofers
(2) Rythmik FM8, (1) UM18, (1) Custom DIY Ciare 18
Other Speakers or Equipment
BSS BLU 50
Streaming Equipment
RPi4 using RopieeeXL
Streaming Subscriptions
Tidal
Other Equipment
All Belden 1800F and 1313A
Wow! quite a change. Could you show the step response before plot?
Did you try to watch vidoe with these filters. Youtube/Netflix? are there lipsync issues?
Nope, that's too much digging as this point. :) Lets just say it will be terrible. No video here. Yet.
 

Ofer

New Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2021
Messages
114
My AV System  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
miniDSP 4x10hd
Main Amp
Emotiva XPR200 midrange amp
Additional Amp
Crest audio 2001A bass amp
Other Amp
Rotel RA930ax twitter amp
Computer Audio
Sony Bravia android TV
DAC
miniDSP 4*10HD
Front Speakers
Andromeda MkII
Screen
Sony bravia 65XF9005
Streaming Subscriptions
Deezer HiFi
Other Equipment
Marantz original 5E CD
OK, Thanks for sharing. Would be interesting to here how video playback works with such extensive filtering.
 

jtwrace

Member
Thread Starter
Joined
Mar 12, 2019
Messages
129
Location
Orlando, FL
My AV System  
Main Amp
(4) Hypex NC502MP
DAC
Topping D90
Front Speakers
JBL M2
Subwoofers
(2) Rythmik FM8, (1) UM18, (1) Custom DIY Ciare 18
Other Speakers or Equipment
BSS BLU 50
Streaming Equipment
RPi4 using RopieeeXL
Streaming Subscriptions
Tidal
Other Equipment
All Belden 1800F and 1313A
OK, Thanks for sharing. Would be interesting to here how video playback works with such extensive filtering.
I've been told that it's not an issue and I'll do it at some point but not priority.
 

hulkss

Active Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2020
Messages
246
OK, Thanks for sharing. Would be interesting to here how video playback works with such extensive filtering.
For any video that is streaming in realtime, like watching online content, latency in the filters is a big issue. If you playback video from files on your computer, some media players have the ability to delay the video to match the audio stream. Jriver can do this.
 

Ofer

New Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2021
Messages
114
My AV System  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
miniDSP 4x10hd
Main Amp
Emotiva XPR200 midrange amp
Additional Amp
Crest audio 2001A bass amp
Other Amp
Rotel RA930ax twitter amp
Computer Audio
Sony Bravia android TV
DAC
miniDSP 4*10HD
Front Speakers
Andromeda MkII
Screen
Sony bravia 65XF9005
Streaming Subscriptions
Deezer HiFi
Other Equipment
Marantz original 5E CD
For any video that is streaming in realtime, like watching online content, latency in the filters is a big issue. If you playback video from files on your computer, some media players have the ability to delay the video to match the audio stream. Jriver can do this.
Thanks, and are there solutions for online streaming with filters?
 

hulkss

Active Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2020
Messages
246
Thanks, and are there solutions for online streaming with filters?
Yes, in Audiolense you have to use frequency domain correction only, minimum phase target responses, and minimum phase crossover filters.
 

Ofer

New Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2021
Messages
114
My AV System  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
miniDSP 4x10hd
Main Amp
Emotiva XPR200 midrange amp
Additional Amp
Crest audio 2001A bass amp
Other Amp
Rotel RA930ax twitter amp
Computer Audio
Sony Bravia android TV
DAC
miniDSP 4*10HD
Front Speakers
Andromeda MkII
Screen
Sony bravia 65XF9005
Streaming Subscriptions
Deezer HiFi
Other Equipment
Marantz original 5E CD
Yes, in Audiolense you have to use frequency domain correction only, minimum phase target responses, and minimum phase crossover filters.
Thanks for clarifying that. So it means having on (or more) filter with frequency and time domain correction for music and another with only frequency domain correction for everything else. Are they easlly interchangeble using Audiolense or another software? Assuming you do stream from varios apps how/where do you switch between filters.
 

hulkss

Active Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2020
Messages
246
Thanks for clarifying that. So it means having on (or more) filter with frequency and time domain correction for music and another with only frequency domain correction for everything else. Are they easlly interchangeble using Audiolense or another software? Assuming you do stream from varios apps how/where do you switch between filters.
Yes, more than one filter set is needed to get the best from your audio system with different program material. There are convolvers built into media players where you can easily load different filters. There are also stand alone and plugin convolvers from Audiolense and Accuratesound.
 

Ofer

New Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2021
Messages
114
My AV System  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
miniDSP 4x10hd
Main Amp
Emotiva XPR200 midrange amp
Additional Amp
Crest audio 2001A bass amp
Other Amp
Rotel RA930ax twitter amp
Computer Audio
Sony Bravia android TV
DAC
miniDSP 4*10HD
Front Speakers
Andromeda MkII
Screen
Sony bravia 65XF9005
Streaming Subscriptions
Deezer HiFi
Other Equipment
Marantz original 5E CD
Yes, more than one filter set is needed to get the best from your audio system with different program material. There are convolvers built into media players where you can easily load different filters. There are also stand alone and plugin convolvers from Audiolense and Accuratesound.
Do you have experience with doing that on W10 machines? How user (family) friendly is it to switch between convolvers? If you stream from different apps on your PC then using media players is probably out of the question.
Also is it possible to route the smart TV through the audio interface using SPDIF and use the convolvers?
Thanks for taking the time and patience and explaining all this. I am toying with the idea of Audiolense but it is a complex and expensive leap and want to have a full picture. :reading:
 
Top Bottom