My Audiolense Experience (JBL M2)

[jtwrace]

In 2019, I purchased Audiolense XO to try. Long story short, I couldn't get it to work due to an odd error I kept getting. Fast forward to 7 months ago when I interviewed Mitch on my podcast here. The more we talked, the more I wanted to try Audiolense. After the podcast Mitch asked me if I was going to try it and I explained my previous issue. He mentioned to me that anomaly was just solved a month prior.

For the next few months I had to decide on how I wanted to handle the MCH DAC and Roon Core setup. I built a W10 NUCi7 connected directly to a Motu UltraLite Mk5.

@Mitchco charges a modest $500 for the filter creation and also helping you along the way with what issue(s) might come along. For most of us, time is of the essence and a positive result is critical so I thought it would be worth paying the money to have someone hold my hand through the process and hopefully not ruin anything either thus making the $500 minimal.

Mitch might be the most patient man I've ever dealt with on so many levels. He taught me how to count to 8, using 0-7 for routing (you might be surprised how much of a mind boggler this is) among a timing issue during measurement I had. My point is simple, if you're already to this point, just pay the money and make your life a bit easier and know that you have a highly experienced user creating filters for you. The cherry on top is at the end he sends you the file to create your own along with the directions to do so.

If you've made it this far you're asking how does it sound, right? Well, look at the measurements! Translation - Amazing! After about 6 filters I settled on one that I preferred. I can't say enough about Mitch and Bernt of what they have accomplished.

This is not your typical Digital Room Correction (DRC) where phase and timing is NOT corrected. This is SOTA digital crossovers, frequency correction and true time domain correction which now make up my stereo 4 way digital XO system.

Juice HiFi

Digital Room Calibration Services, Convolvers, Headphone Filtersets

We help deliver digital room calibration for studio quality sound for any room in your house worldwide. Headphone filtersets and the Hang Loose Convolver.

accuratesound.ca

REW room acoustics and audio device measurement and analysis software

REW is free software for room acoustic measurement, loudspeaker measurement and audio device measurement and analysis

www.roomeqwizard.com

Audiolense

I then confirmed the results with REW

 

[juicehifi]

Congrats, jwtrace!

 

[dsnyder0cnn]

Excellent results. I 100% agree that @Mitchco is a delight to work with. Well worth the cost for the results alone, but the education from working with him is priceless!

In case people don't know what we're talking about: https://accuratesound.ca/services.html

 

[2234rew]

Really great and amazing speakers.

The amazing thing is with Audiolense XO I have achieve very similar measurements with DIY DSP active speakers for much much less money

 

[JStewart]

Having had the privilege of hearing your M2 set up beforehand, I had a difficult time believing that amazing experience could be improved upon, so it’s really great to hear this project worked out so well as it was not without a significant time and expense commitment.

The JBL M2s are an outstanding speaker with outstanding off axis response.

JBL M2 Master Reference Monitor

JBL M2 Master Reference Monitor

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

Did you choose to apply filters to the full frequency range, limit correction to the model region, or other?

 

[jtwrace]

Having had the privilege of hearing your M2 set up beforehand, I had a difficult time believing that amazing experience could be improved upon, so it’s really great to hear this project worked out so well as it was not without a significant time and expense commitment.

The JBL M2s are an outstanding speaker with outstanding off axis response.

JBL M2 Master Reference Monitor

JBL M2 Master Reference Monitor

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

Did you choose to apply filters to the full frequency range, limit correction to the model region, or other?

All I'll say is you haven't heard nothin'.

 

[jtwrace]

@juicehifi question for you. Mitch has mentioned to me that using your Convolver and ASIO Bridge will allow me to route my LG TV into my dac and through my system.

LG > Optical Input to Motu Ultralite Mk5? Convolver goes on my RoonServer NUC? I'd like to work on this over the next couple of weeks as I'll have the time to wrestle with it. Then December it's "upgrade" time to the rear subs!

 

[JStewart]

All I'll say is you haven't heard nothin'.

That’s frightening, in a good way.

I read with great interest Erin’s Klippel M2 measurements as well as saw your actual in-room measurements on @Mitchco ’s most excellent video, too.

(Bummer that ASR thread went sideways.)

With luck, I’ll be able to reach out to Mitch for some help after the new year.

 

[jtwrace]

When you're not too busy you'll need to come again for a listen. Need any subs?

 

[juicehifi]

@juicehifi question for you. Mitch has mentioned to me that using your Convolver and ASIO Bridge will allow me to route my LG TV into my dac and through my system.

LG > Optical Input to Motu Ultralite Mk5? Convolver goes on my RoonServer NUC? I'd like to work on this over the next couple of weeks as I'll have the time to wrestle with it. Then December it's "upgrade" time to the rear subs!

I am uncertaion about how this will work, due to different clocks on the two streams. However, for all I know, the synchronisation may be handled by Windows + Asio Bridge. Certainly worth trying.

Another approach is to watch web TV instead ... if you are rigged to do so. It will mean using the LG TV as a monitor only. And that approach works without problems.

 

[jtwrace]

I am uncertaion about how this will work, due to different clocks on the two streams. However, for all I know, the synchronisation may be handled by Windows + Asio Bridge. Certainly worth trying.

Another approach is to watch web TV instead ... if you are rigged to do so. It will mean using the LG TV as a monitor only. And that approach works without problems.

I only use YouTube TV. Is that what you mean by web tv? If so, what is the process then?

 

[2234rew]

I only use YouTube TV. Is that what you mean by web tv?

Yes, TV via a web browser , not TV aerial.

Then it's just a matter of creating a zero latency correction filter (min phase XO and min phase room correction). This is to avoid lip sync. Can be 65k taps.

Hookup NUC to TV, as Bernt mentioned (HDMI cable).

Use convolver with ASIO Bridge.

Play system sound to ASIO Bridge.

Setup ASIO Bridge to play to USB interface.

Hope for the best

Lots of us are doing this. I have a thread dedicated to doing this with macOS but I have done it with Windows too, with success.

It's really just about routing system audio to your speakers - it's nothing specific to TV viewing.

Can be YouTube, Netflix, Spotify, SoundCloud, whatever, playing to ASIO Bridge.

 

[Ofer]

Yes, TV via a web browser , not TV aerial.

Then it's just a matter of creating a zero latency correction filter (min phase XO and min phase room correction). This is to avoid lip sync. Can be 65k taps.

Hookup NUC to TV, as Bernt mentioned (HDMI cable).

Use convolver with ASIO Bridge.

Play system sound to ASIO Bridge.

Setup ASIO Bridge to play to USB interface.

Hope for the best

Lots of us are doing this. I have a thread dedicated to doing this with macOS but I have done it with Windows too, with success.

It's really just about routing system audio to your speakers - it's nothing specific to TV viewing.

Can be YouTube, Netflix, Spotify, SoundCloud, whatever, playing to ASIO Bridge.

Netflix 4k need a very demanding computer to watch. That is why it might be needed to route the TV through the optical input of the audio interface and not use the computer to web watch. Is it possible to do so?

 

[Ofer]

In 2019, I purchased Audiolense XO to try. Long story short, I couldn't get it to work due to an odd error I kept getting. Fast forward to 7 months ago when I interviewed Mitch on my podcast here. The more we talked, the more I wanted to try Audiolense. After the podcast Mitch asked me if I was going to try it and I explained my previous issue. He mentioned to me that anomaly was just solved a month prior.

For the next few months I had to decide on how I wanted to handle the MCH DAC and Roon Core setup. I built a W10 NUCi7 connected directly to a Motu UltraLite Mk5.

@Mitchco charges a modest $500 for the filter creation and also helping you along the way with what issue(s) might come along. For most of us, time is of the essence and a positive result is critical so I thought it would be worth paying the money to have someone hold my hand through the process and hopefully not ruin anything either thus making the $500 minimal.

Mitch might be the most patient man I've ever dealt with on so many levels. He taught me how to count to 8, using 0-7 for routing (you might be surprised how much of a mind boggler this is) among a timing issue during measurement I had. My point is simple, if you're already to this point, just pay the money and make your life a bit easier and know that you have a highly experienced user creating filters for you. The cherry on top is at the end he sends you the file to create your own along with the directions to do so.

If you've made it this far you're asking how does it sound, right? Well, look at the measurements! Translation - Amazing! After about 6 filters I settled on one that I preferred. I can't say enough about Mitch and Bernt of what they have accomplished.

This is not your typical Digital Room Correction (DRC) where phase and timing is NOT corrected. This is SOTA digital crossovers, frequency correction and true time domain correction which now make up my stereo 4 way digital XO system.

Juice HiFi

Digital Room Calibration Services, Convolvers, Headphone Filtersets

We help deliver digital room calibration for studio quality sound for any room in your house worldwide. Headphone filtersets and the Hang Loose Convolver.

accuratesound.ca

REW room acoustics and audio device measurement and analysis software

REW is free software for room acoustic measurement, loudspeaker measurement and audio device measurement and analysis

www.roomeqwizard.com

Audiolense
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I then confirmed the results with REW

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Sounds amazing. Could you post the before and after REW measurements?

 

[jtwrace]

Sounds amazing. Could you post the before and after REW measurements?

 

[Ofer]

View attachment 48302

Wow! quite a change. Could you show the step response before plot?
Did you try to watch vidoe with these filters. Youtube/Netflix? are there lipsync issues?

 

[jtwrace]

Wow! quite a change. Could you show the step response before plot?
Did you try to watch vidoe with these filters. Youtube/Netflix? are there lipsync issues?

Nope, that's too much digging as this point. Lets just say it will be terrible. No video here. Yet.

 

[Ofer]

OK, Thanks for sharing. Would be interesting to here how video playback works with such extensive filtering.

 

[jtwrace]

OK, Thanks for sharing. Would be interesting to here how video playback works with such extensive filtering.

I've been told that it's not an issue and I'll do it at some point but not priority.

 

[hulkss]

OK, Thanks for sharing. Would be interesting to here how video playback works with such extensive filtering.

For any video that is streaming in realtime, like watching online content, latency in the filters is a big issue. If you playback video from files on your computer, some media players have the ability to delay the video to match the audio stream. Jriver can do this.

 

[Ofer]

For any video that is streaming in realtime, like watching online content, latency in the filters is a big issue. If you playback video from files on your computer, some media players have the ability to delay the video to match the audio stream. Jriver can do this.

Thanks, and are there solutions for online streaming with filters?

 

[hulkss]

Thanks, and are there solutions for online streaming with filters?

Yes, in Audiolense you have to use frequency domain correction only, minimum phase target responses, and minimum phase crossover filters.

 

[Ofer]

Yes, in Audiolense you have to use frequency domain correction only, minimum phase target responses, and minimum phase crossover filters.

Thanks for clarifying that. So it means having on (or more) filter with frequency and time domain correction for music and another with only frequency domain correction for everything else. Are they easlly interchangeble using Audiolense or another software? Assuming you do stream from varios apps how/where do you switch between filters.

 

[hulkss]

Thanks for clarifying that. So it means having on (or more) filter with frequency and time domain correction for music and another with only frequency domain correction for everything else. Are they easlly interchangeble using Audiolense or another software? Assuming you do stream from varios apps how/where do you switch between filters.

Yes, more than one filter set is needed to get the best from your audio system with different program material. There are convolvers built into media players where you can easily load different filters. There are also stand alone and plugin convolvers from Audiolense and Accuratesound.

 

[Ofer]

Yes, more than one filter set is needed to get the best from your audio system with different program material. There are convolvers built into media players where you can easily load different filters. There are also stand alone and plugin convolvers from Audiolense and Accuratesound.

Do you have experience with doing that on W10 machines? How user (family) friendly is it to switch between convolvers? If you stream from different apps on your PC then using media players is probably out of the question.
Also is it possible to route the smart TV through the audio interface using SPDIF and use the convolvers?
Thanks for taking the time and patience and explaining all this. I am toying with the idea of Audiolense but it is a complex and expensive leap and want to have a full picture.