Advice on optimizing volume | gain in AL based set-up

aps

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I’m running the set-up shown in the picture below in which filters built in Audiolense are processed using Audiolense Convolver. The digital pre-amp is a mini-DSP DDRC-22D which is used for input selection, re-sampling, and volume control, and it’s the latter aspect that I’m after advice on how to optimize. Key facts seem to be:
  • Audiolense filters result in a 20dB reduction
  • Audiolense convolver is set to 0dB
  • Setting DDRC-22D to 0dB and with no input/output trim on the RME results in volume being the maximum that is of practical use, i.e., perfect for movies or music when the family is not at home.
  • Setting DDRC-22D to -24dB and with no input/output trim on the RME results in volume being about right for daily use, i.e., watching TV or listening to music when cooking dinner with family
All this is, obviously, working I’m wondering about the impact of the volume control occurring before both convolution as well as D/A conversion. Is this likely to be a problem? Is there a benefit in this system of an analogue volume control after the RME? And, if so, then is this still the case when the volume control is added to Audiolense Convolver?

50764
 

Ofer

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Hi,
I hope someone more capable will step up and answer your question. Still I have a question for you. In your setup the DDRC-22D serves as a digital pre-amp, the audiolense is also in the digital realm. Did you try to compare Dirac, that is installed in the DDRC-22D, to audiolense? your current setup makes it easy to compare. if so was the comparison also measured (by REW)?
 

aps

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Hi,
I hope someone more capable will step up and answer your question. Still I have a question for you. In your setup the DDRC-22D serves as a digital pre-amp, the audiolense is also in the digital realm. Did you try to compare Dirac, that is installed in the DDRC-22D, to audiolense? your current setup makes it easy to compare. if so was the comparison also measured (by REW)?
The four output channels in the diagram correspond to FL, FR, Sub 1 and Sub 2. The reason that I've stuck with Audiolense is that it doesn't just do the overall room EQ but also does an exceptional job at the x/o between the main speakers and subwoofers. I did trial Dirac for overall room EQ with a target curve similar to that which I use with Audiolense but had to use a simple 24dB x/o between the main speakers and subwoofers (rather than Audiolense's FIR x/o filter). All this worked but I was never able to get the integration between the main speakers and subwoofers as seamless as with the Audiolense setup. The answer might well be different for someone just running full-range main speakers. Hope that this helps.
 

Ofer

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My AV System  
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miniDSP 4x10hd
Main Amp
Emotiva XPR200 midrange amp
Additional Amp
Crest audio 2001A bass amp
Other Amp
Rotel RA930ax twitter amp
Computer Audio
Sony Bravia android TV
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miniDSP 4*10HD
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Andromeda MkII
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Sony bravia 65XF9005
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Marantz original 5E CD
Sub integration is a challenge. I have just added one (2.1) and used REW to time align and all that. Still not a hundred percent happy with the results. It seems that as far as Dirac is concerned only the bass management suit can do it and that is only available on super expensive processors.
 

aps

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Sub integration is a challenge. I have just added one (2.1) and used REW to time align and all that. Still not a hundred percent happy with the results. It seems that as far as Dirac is concerned only the bass management suit can do it and that is only available on super expensive processors.
Over the journey, I've tried a number of solutions for subwoofer integration with overall Room EQ wrapped over the top but never found a solution better than Audiolense - the sound quality is excellent and it's simple to use.
 

aps

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@juicehifi What, if anything, is the impact of applying circa 24dB volume control in the digital domain before convolution? Is this likely to be an issue noting that the filters themselves result in a further 20dB reduction? (I'm trying to figure out if it's sensible to add an analog volume control after convolution to allow all the digital processing to be done at full volume (as well as to retain signal to noise ratio at low volumes)
 

juicehifi

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What’s the bit depth between the MiniDSP and RME? If it is 24 bit or higher you should be ok.
 

aps

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What’s the bit depth between the MiniDSP and RME? If it is 24 bit or higher you should be ok.
The mini-DSP manual statues input and output are both 24-bit but the internal processing (which is where volume control occurs) is done on 32-bit. And the RME (which does routing and D/A after convolution is 24-bit). Is this likely, then, to be ok? What, if any, would the impact be if I was to run the mini-DSP thus allowing the Audiolense Convolver to be processing the full range signal?
 

juicehifi

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You will have less quantisation error with a stronger signal feeding the convolver. But I think you’ve got enough dynamic range here to be on the safe side. 16 bits would have been a concern though.
 
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aps

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You will have less quantisation error with a stronger signal feeding the convolver. But I think you’ve got enough dynamic range here to be on the safe side. 16 bits would have been a concern though.
Much appreciated. I guess that, once released, volume control within Audiolense Convolver will further improve the situation.
 

Ofer

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My AV System  
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miniDSP 4x10hd
Main Amp
Emotiva XPR200 midrange amp
Additional Amp
Crest audio 2001A bass amp
Other Amp
Rotel RA930ax twitter amp
Computer Audio
Sony Bravia android TV
DAC
miniDSP 4*10HD
Front Speakers
Andromeda MkII
Screen
Sony bravia 65XF9005
Streaming Subscriptions
Deezer HiFi
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Marantz original 5E CD
This is sort of related. If one plays content form the same computer that runs audiolense via netflix/foobar/kodi can the volume be controlled from the application used? for example in foobar2000 and kodi you can assign hotkeys for volume control. Kodi also enables native media keyboard volume control.
 

juicehifi

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This is sort of related. If one plays content form the same computer that runs audiolense via netflix/foobar/kodi can the volume be controlled from the application used? for example in foobar2000 and kodi you can assign hotkeys for volume control. Kodi also enables native media keyboard volume control.
Yes, absolutely. I do that all the time.
 

Ofer

New Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2021
Messages
55
My AV System  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
miniDSP 4x10hd
Main Amp
Emotiva XPR200 midrange amp
Additional Amp
Crest audio 2001A bass amp
Other Amp
Rotel RA930ax twitter amp
Computer Audio
Sony Bravia android TV
DAC
miniDSP 4*10HD
Front Speakers
Andromeda MkII
Screen
Sony bravia 65XF9005
Streaming Subscriptions
Deezer HiFi
Other Equipment
Marantz original 5E CD
OK. Thanks, so the convolver volume is more relevant to outside sources that are connected to the compute. Smart TV CD etc. ?
 
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