Sound card & microphone fixes (Moderated thread)

juicehifi

Audiolense
Staff member
Thread Starter
Joined
Feb 5, 2018
Messages
691
Read this thread first if you have problems with getting valid measurements.

Please note that this thread is strictly for solutions.

Posts that do not give a solution will eventually be deleted from the thread.

The trouble shooting should take pleace in separate discussions thread.

But when you have found a solution to your measurement problems, please shareit here.
 
Last edited:

whoareyou

Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2021
Messages
179
More  
Main Amp
Benchmark AHB2
Additional Amp
ATI AT525NC
Computer Audio
JRiver
DAC
Exasound E38
Front Speakers
Psb synchrony one
Center Channel Speaker
PSB synchrony one C
Surround Speakers
Revel m105
Exasound + UMik1 -
ASIO is only option for Exasound DAC
UMik1 WASAPI driver does not work with this combo. AL accepts the Exasound ASIO / UMik1 WASAPI combination and measurements seem ok, but timings are consistently out of whack.

For my configuration, only thing that works is direct mode for UMIK1. I always disable WASAPI.
This provides consistent results.
 

2234rew

Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2020
Messages
271
My DAC is actually my old Denon AVR 4520. I run it in "Pure Direct" model using it as 8 channel DAC and 8 channel amp - with a remote control for volume.

It is 2 x DIY 3-way speakers plus 2 subs.

Audiolense handling digital crossover and speaker/room correction.

AVR on Windows can be a nightmare with getting channel mapping to work correctly with Audiolense

I use a Focusrite Solo 3rd Gen + Earthworks M23 mic, so I use ASIO4ALL for measurements

With previous Audiolense 6.17 I used the clock drift compensation without problems.

But with recent AL 6.19 update (and ASIO4ALL update to 2.15) I was getting a 0.7 second delay on my right side drivers and sub.

Measurements looked fine by I lost my phantom center completely. Sound was coming from left and right speakers only. I repeated measurements multiple times and even rolled back ASIO4ALL version.

So finally i disabled clock drift compensation this time and now left and right were under 0.1s difference and phantom center returned.

I lost a couple days trying to solve why the sq was negatively affected, but now am very happy with how it all sounds.

If using a pro audio multichannel interface (Mic input and DAC outputs) and it's ASIO driver you won have any of these issues,

But using an AVR like this is cool - all in 1 box and remote control for volume.

The Denon volume control is actually analogue (IC), even thought it shows volume on digital display
 

whoareyou

Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2021
Messages
179
More  
Main Amp
Benchmark AHB2
Additional Amp
ATI AT525NC
Computer Audio
JRiver
DAC
Exasound E38
Front Speakers
Psb synchrony one
Center Channel Speaker
PSB synchrony one C
Surround Speakers
Revel m105
Take a look under advanced settings, and you should see an option to enable the direct sound option.
 

juicehifi

Audiolense
Staff member
Thread Starter
Joined
Feb 5, 2018
Messages
691
What he said, and it is sometimes a matter of trial and error, especially with the two components you are using. Do several measurements and look for consistent timing differences between tweeters. Ideally these differences should only vary by max 2 samples.
 

mccarty350

Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2021
Messages
80
Heads up, this is all on my side as theorized, the minidsp UMIK only supports 48khz recording. This is NOT an audiolense issue.
 

2234rew

Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2020
Messages
271
Do several measurements and look for consistent timing differences between tweeters. Ideally these differences should only vary by max 2 samples.

So for 48kHz measurement:

2 samples = 1000 * (2/48000) = 0.05 ms ?

So tweeters should not vary by more than 0.05 ms?

0.1 ms is too much?
 

juicehifi

Audiolense
Staff member
Thread Starter
Joined
Feb 5, 2018
Messages
691
Ideally, yes. But while a larger variation than this is indicative on some inconsistency in the measurement process, the drift is likely to be inaudible.
 

2234rew

Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2020
Messages
271
Ideally, yes. But while a larger variation than this is indicative on some inconsistency in the measurement process, the drift is likely to be inaudible.

Thanks Bernt - but any drift "should" be able to be corrected by AL with the drift compensation enabled?
 

juicehifi

Audiolense
Staff member
Thread Starter
Joined
Feb 5, 2018
Messages
691
Yes, but it requires glitch-free streams during the measurement to work. This should be a given, but unfortunately that isn’t always the case.
 

2234rew

Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2020
Messages
271
Yes, but it requires glitch-free streams during the measurement to work. This should be a given, but unfortunately that isn’t always the case.

Yes noted. I've experienced such glitches during measurements but it's hard to know if its the driver issue or ASIO4ALL issue or something else.

I have to play with some of the measurement options like Exclusive Mode on/off and some of AL's other options.

Obviously the ideal is have one interface for both ADC and DAC during measurement but sometimes not possible.

For example I use 8 channel HDMI input DAC and amp in my AVR - I use DSP crossover.

The AVR solution is really neat but this AVR doesn't have 8-channel RCA input (older Denons did) so I can't simply use an 8-channel pro interface for the measurement for its single clock because I don't have 8channel power amp.
 

mccarty350

Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2021
Messages
80
Here are some solutions I've found to contribute Bernt.

Getting measurements in a stable manner with an ASUS Xonar U7 MkII and Umik.

56639



Using ASIO as the playback device works fine on the Xonar U7 MKII. I use WASAPI as the input device. These are probably evident suggestions here are the ones that are not so much evident:
1. Lowering your sweep duration from 10 to 5 seconds definitely increases your chances of success.
2. Go into advanced settings and then turn WASAPI exclusive mode to enabled.
3. EVERY TIME YOU TAKE A MEASUREMENT turn clock drift correction on and off. It resets something in the software, I'm not sure what but when you turn it on and off the entire UI seems to flash for a second like something major has happened. I don't know what it is but I was able to take over 10 measurements without audiolense crashing by toggling this between measurements. I then tried a few measurements without toggling it and got an immediate 'file open' error so I believe this is a method of increasing stability.

56640



Another thing I've noticed:

56641

56642


Under speaker setup as you go through the tabs from left to right from speakers to cross over configuration there are two places where you can set octave width. Make sure that when you change it in the cross over configuration tab that you return to the speakers tab to verify that it 'stuck' because often it will return to it's default 2 octave value so MAKE SURE that you check it before saving your speaker setup configuration.
 

mccarty350

Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2021
Messages
80
If I find out any more tips and tricks I'll post them. I will also say that using this sound card and configuration when I A/B the exact same correction file and measurement with the only change being using clock drift correction versus not having clock drift correction I find that turning it off sounds a bit 'clearer' in my scenario and I prefer it. Bernt if I'm off target on any of this or anything is just perceptual on my part let me know, i don't want to spread misinformation. I must say that I have made tweaking with this quite a passion I spend at least an hour a day playing with audiolense. I also want to share (and I know maybe I shouldn't add clutter to this thread but I'm proud) my active modular testbed:
56661


Basically I have dual subs in the room, the 8" bass module above (still have to add round overs for cosmetics) on the bottom, a midrange module that uses screw inserts and machine screws so that I can exchange baffles and drivers on the front and back. On the back I can remove the rear baffle so that I have an 'open midrange' configuration. I have at least half a dozen tweeters that I can place on top of the box each with their own baffle and a plethora of waveguides. I have Bridgestone ISO pond liner between each module for isolation and the construction techniques of the mid enclosure adheres to BBC learned techniques (bitumen damping and 1/2 inch birch ply) while the bass module is constructed of far sterner stuff. This is why I never stop playing with audiolense, I'm always switching drivers, crossover designs, etc. and ever optimizing and documenting. So much fun. If anyone is wondering why the center to center distance on the mid module is so great vs the woofer it's because I built it to be able to accommodate up to 6 1/2 mid drivers and the one shown is only 4" so I chose to optimize it's center to center distance to the tweeter rather than to the bass module. Learning is a blast and audiolense has made this endless tinkering off the charts gratifying.
 

Badbruno

New Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2020
Messages
44
More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
ExaSound S88
Main Amp
Polaris Audio
Additional Amp
Polaris Audio
Other Amp
Polaris Audio
Computer Audio
Mac mini and IMac 27
DAC
ExaSound S88
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
VPI Prime turntable
Front Speakers
Custom open baffle 3 way
Subwoofers
Velodyne DD12+
Streaming Equipment
Roon
Streaming Subscriptions
Roon Quobuz
Exasound + UMik1 -
ASIO is only option for Exasound DAC
UMik1 WASAPI driver does not work with this combo. AL accepts the Exasound ASIO / UMik1 WASAPI combination and measurements seem ok, but timings are consistently out of whack.

For my configuration, only thing that works is direct mode for UMIK1. I always disable WASAPI.
This provides consistent results.
Thank you for this insight with ExaSound, it’s my next tuning project
cheers… thanks for sharing
 

whoareyou

Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2021
Messages
179
More  
Main Amp
Benchmark AHB2
Additional Amp
ATI AT525NC
Computer Audio
JRiver
DAC
Exasound E38
Front Speakers
Psb synchrony one
Center Channel Speaker
PSB synchrony one C
Surround Speakers
Revel m105
Thank you for this insight with ExaSound, it’s my next tuning project
cheers… thanks for sharing
Interestingly enough, I just received new computer and measuring with WASAPI now works (same UMIK-1 and same exasound). When I measure, I still use direct sound since it's given very consistent results, but I was a surprised that WASAPI now works for me. Bottom line is, I'm sure you'll get a good measurement, but every bit of hardware/drivers in the chain seems to impact process.
 

Badbruno

New Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2020
Messages
44
More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
ExaSound S88
Main Amp
Polaris Audio
Additional Amp
Polaris Audio
Other Amp
Polaris Audio
Computer Audio
Mac mini and IMac 27
DAC
ExaSound S88
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
VPI Prime turntable
Front Speakers
Custom open baffle 3 way
Subwoofers
Velodyne DD12+
Streaming Equipment
Roon
Streaming Subscriptions
Roon Quobuz
This is good to know! I would also say that when there is a mismatch ( delay) the first thought is the signal chain in computer is the problem. Not always the case I’ve had two systems where Audiolense found a hardware problem.
I had just rebuilt passive 4 way JBL L250 xover and the software pointed out an mis wire on left channel. Second issues found was a amplifier inverted polarization one the channels.

I wish Audiolense would add a POP test for polarity testing speakers
 

e1guapo

New Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2022
Messages
10
More  
Other Amp
Drop THX AAA 789
Computer Audio
HQPlayer Embedded / Desktop, Roon
DAC
Merging+Anubis, Denafrips Ares II, SPL Phonitor One d
Front Speakers
PreSonus E5 XT
Center Channel Speaker
PreSonus E44
Surround Speakers
PreSonus E3.5
Rear Height Speakers
PreSonus E3.5
Subwoofers
PreSonus E8
Other Speakers or Equipment
Sennheiser HD820, HD650, Beyerdynamic DT880 Pro
Streaming Equipment
iFi ZEN Stream
Streaming Subscriptions
Qobuz, Tidal, Apple Music
Other Equipment
Audiolense XO, SoundID Reference
My DAC is Merging Hapi Mk2 with 2x DA8P. Here's what I experienced when doing log sweep / record in ASIO exclusive mode at native DXD sample rate (352.8KHz):
8ch: 10s sweep was ok. Successful chance was about 60%. Most of the time I met pop / drift sound.​
13ch: unable to do 10s sweep. Always pop / drift / wrong channel. Tried decreasing sweep time. Only 3s with 32bit floating mode had 30% chance to succeed.​
Changed to 48KHz, 10s sweep for 13ch was ok. Successful chance was about 60%.
Changed to 96KHz, unable to do 10s sweep, similar result as DXD sample rate.
Changed to 88.2KHz, could do 5s sweep and successful chance was same as 48KHz.
Sounds like if channel count increased the choose of the sample rate / second became less. Any thought?
 

juicehifi

Audiolense
Staff member
Thread Starter
Joined
Feb 5, 2018
Messages
691
That makes sense. If there's a bottleneck in the stream, lower sample rate may help a lot.
 

e1guapo

New Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2022
Messages
10
More  
Other Amp
Drop THX AAA 789
Computer Audio
HQPlayer Embedded / Desktop, Roon
DAC
Merging+Anubis, Denafrips Ares II, SPL Phonitor One d
Front Speakers
PreSonus E5 XT
Center Channel Speaker
PreSonus E44
Surround Speakers
PreSonus E3.5
Rear Height Speakers
PreSonus E3.5
Subwoofers
PreSonus E8
Other Speakers or Equipment
Sennheiser HD820, HD650, Beyerdynamic DT880 Pro
Streaming Equipment
iFi ZEN Stream
Streaming Subscriptions
Qobuz, Tidal, Apple Music
Other Equipment
Audiolense XO, SoundID Reference
Curious what possible thing would cause the bottleneck of the audio streams except driver? I use Merging's MAD driver playback 12 or 13ch DXD / DSD256 contents and it's quite stable and rock solid...
 

juicehifi

Audiolense
Staff member
Thread Starter
Joined
Feb 5, 2018
Messages
691
Driver, usb bus, Windows, sound card…

Ideally it shouldn’t be a problem, but…
 

jrobbins50

Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2018
Messages
168
Bernt, I'm having a terrible time with measurement at the moment. It seems to be the UMIK-1 microphone because the sweeps are running just fine for playback. With Windows MME, the error message is:

[PaHostErrorInfo]
hostApiType: paMME
errorCode: 1
errorText: Undefined external error.

With direct sound, the error message is:

[PaHostErrorInfo]
hostApiType: paDirectSound
errorCode: -2147467259
errorText: DirectSound error

With ASIO4allv2, the error message is:

PADeviceUnavailable

With WASAPI, the error message is:

paInvalidDevice

In each case, the format and device combination is supported. The mic shows up properly in ASIO4all's control panel.

I have plugged and unplugged the microphone, rebooted the measurement PC and restarted AL many times, all to no avail. Using v6.21. I've tried using my UMIK-2 mic, but it doesn't work, either.

Yesterday, the UMIK-1 mic worked fine when I was running v.6.20, but the setup somehow routed my front height speakers to channels 9 and 10, when I only have eight channels on my Okto DAC. While it measured fine, with sweeps for all eight channels plus the ninth full range sweep, there was no signal routed to channels 7 and 8 on the DAC and hence the front height speakers produced no sound. So, with the install of v6.21 and some readjustment of the setup, I've solved the channel layout -- the front height speakers are now channels 7 and 8, as expected, but the mic won't work. Sigh. I've run out of ideas here. JCR
 

juicehifi

Audiolense
Staff member
Thread Starter
Joined
Feb 5, 2018
Messages
691
Bernt, I'm having a terrible time with measurement at the moment. It seems to be the UMIK-1 microphone because the sweeps are running just fine for playback. With Windows MME, the error message is:

[PaHostErrorInfo]
hostApiType: paMME
errorCode: 1
errorText: Undefined external error.

With direct sound, the error message is:

[PaHostErrorInfo]
hostApiType: paDirectSound
errorCode: -2147467259
errorText: DirectSound error

With ASIO4allv2, the error message is:

PADeviceUnavailable

With WASAPI, the error message is:

paInvalidDevice

In each case, the format and device combination is supported. The mic shows up properly in ASIO4all's control panel.

I have plugged and unplugged the microphone, rebooted the measurement PC and restarted AL many times, all to no avail. Using v6.21. I've tried using my UMIK-2 mic, but it doesn't work, either.

Yesterday, the UMIK-1 mic worked fine when I was running v.6.20, but the setup somehow routed my front height speakers to channels 9 and 10, when I only have eight channels on my Okto DAC. While it measured fine, with sweeps for all eight channels plus the ninth full range sweep, there was no signal routed to channels 7 and 8 on the DAC and hence the front height speakers produced no sound. So, with the install of v6.21 and some readjustment of the setup, I've solved the channel layout -- the front height speakers are now channels 7 and 8, as expected, but the mic won't work. Sigh. I've run out of ideas here. JCR

Maybe someone has the same gear and could share some experience.

The safest solution is to purchase a rock solid multichannel sound card that also has a line or mic input, and a measurement mike that you can hook directly into the card.
 

whoareyou

Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2021
Messages
179
More  
Main Amp
Benchmark AHB2
Additional Amp
ATI AT525NC
Computer Audio
JRiver
DAC
Exasound E38
Front Speakers
Psb synchrony one
Center Channel Speaker
PSB synchrony one C
Surround Speakers
Revel m105
I had to take new set of measurements, and they would not complete due to a "file open" error.
I've seen people discussing this error, but not sure the following resolution was ever suggested ....

I resolved this by going into Window's Security settings and adding audiolense.exe (w/full path to executable), as a process exclusion. Haven't had issue since configuring this exclusion.

If you are encountering this error, I'd suggest you give this a try.
Kind of makes sense, since window's IE generally blocks the audiolense download, so it doesn't seem surprising that windows security is mucking around with audiolense writing out files.
 

2234rew

Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2020
Messages
271
Maybe someone has the same gear and could share some experience.

The safest solution is to purchase a rock solid multichannel sound card that also has a line or mic input, and a measurement mike that you can hook directly into the card.

Focusrite Scarlett series recommended.

Good price to performance. Reliable drivers too, at least for measurements with Audiolense.
 
Top Bottom