Dayton UMM-6 vs. UMIK-1 comparison

[DanDan]

mostly using Dirac live and the same perfectly flat target.
Perfectly flat would be like listening on Audiometric Headphones or in an Anechoic room. HF too hot. The B&K or Harman curves should sound a lot nicer to your and everyones' ears.

 

[Andrew Slater]

So the cross spectrum umik2 is bad dass boys ….

with Dirac live coherence is improved a lot. And detail really stands out now….

the cross spectrum cal file actually sounds excellent as well

bravo cross spectrum!! My goodness what an excellent performance mic and it sounds better then all my mics….. without a doubt!

Dirac live sees the info different… don’t ask me how , it’s too smart for me , but each mic I have all else being equal has a different sound…. The cross spectrum umik2 is absolutely worth your money !!!


And @DanDan , I use a perfectly flat to hear the difference between mics silly
I have a target curve that matches the room size for each tune…. It’s a tilt…..
For auditions on mics I use flat so all things being equal stay equal…. It works for me for hearing mic voicing. (It’s not like I’m spending hours changing it with dirac live, I literally load my target and in about eight seconds I can load my listening profile)
And I’m very accustomed to what flat sounds like. And in fact, on truly high resolution recordings absolutely flat target keeps harmonic balance perfectly and ambience and tonal balance is perfected.
yes it lacks mid base and has too much highs (arguably for most music). But a very very well done recording should sound absolutely stellar with a flat responce

 

[Andrew Slater]

I can’t get over it I had to make a second post….

The cross spectrum umik2 is a massive improvement…. (Sorry I’m just so excited I have to say it again)

 

[goginux]

I can’t get over it I had to make a second post….

The cross spectrum umik2 is a massive improvement…. (Sorry I’m just so excited I have to say it again)

I would be curious,how it looks next to a reference calibrated microphone, expensive,example aco pacific 7052E,earthworks m30/m50,DPA 4090/4091.In my city I do not know anyone who has a reference microphone,only behringer ecm8000.

 

[Andrew Slater]

I would be curious,how it looks next to a reference calibrated microphone, expensive,example aco pacific 7052E,earthworks m30/m50,DPA 4090/4091.In my city I do not know anyone who has a reference microphone,only behringer ecm8000.

It’s funny you say that , my friend from NY is sending me a M30 to try, and I have a low latency interface that will work nicely on it…

So to be continued….

I couldn’t believe how much of a difference in tonality a mic could be…. It’s more then you would think…

This umik2 is a big upgrade. I’ve seen posts of ppl complaining about the axial behavior of the 1/2” , but it seems to be fine at 45 degrees. If it’s a concern use the 0 deg file, but it’s not necessary…

I’m starting to realize what minidsp was doing now with this. It’s a giant leap ahead of umik1

 

[goginux]

I found some measurements,comparison between dbx rta-m premium calibrated at CSL,behringer ecm 8000,calibrated at dr.jordan,sonarworks xref20r5,factory calibrated,i did not include usb microphones,jack,trrs.Hmmm,you made me interested in umik-2.The measurements are with and without calibration files.

 

[Andrew Slater]

I found some measurements,comparison between dbx rta-m premium calibrated at CSL,behringer ecm 8000,calibrated at dr.jordan,sonarworks xref20r5,factory calibrated,i did not include usb microphones,jack,trrs.Hmmm,you made me interested in umik-2.The measurements are with and without calibration files.

Thanks for sharing those , I did the same thing with all my mics awhile back. And of course they are all pretty close to eachother.

And it made me think , and think , and think….. why do they sound so different??

I can plug in any of my mics and run Dirac 5 times or more , and get the same exact results….

I plug in another mic (leaving everything else the same) sounds different. Tonally different and different spatial staging….

So it started my quest for the perfect mic because I love the frequency responce of the cm-10 , but the staging of the umm6

The umik2 from cross spectrum does much more then I could ever expect. It made a huge improvement…..and again… it measures really close to my other mics…

There’s got to be something else going on besides frequencie response… although 1db here and 1db there adds up to hundreds (maybe thousands) of db variants…. But there still something else and I don’t know what it is…

This mic “self noise” thing…… I wonder if that has something to do with it..


The umik2 does not have the small capsule either, it has a metal plate with some wires on it and a little gold stick thingy…. Totally different!!! I’m fact i sorta laughed at the fact the umik1 has the slots on the tip for the diffuse field thingy (I think) when the capsule head in mounted directly on top flush. So those slots were just for looks, nothing was under it…. The umik2 clearly utilizes those because the plate is obviously under that. With umik1 It was like a basic cellphone capsule mounted on a mic to look like a professional mic. They could’ve mounted it in a plastic housing like the audio frog mic…. Boring.

Idk…. Umik2, It’s so much better and gets down to business

 

[DanDan]

Thanks for sharing those , I did the same thing with all my mics awhile back. And of course they are all pretty close to eachother.

And it made me think , and think , and think….. why do they sound so different??

I can plug in any of my mics and run Dirac 5 times or more , and get the same exact results….

I plug in another mic (leaving everything else the same) sounds different. Tonally different and different spatial staging….

So it started my quest for the perfect mic because I love the frequency responce of the cm-10 , but the staging of the umm6

The umik2 from cross spectrum does much more then I could ever expect. It made a huge improvement…..and again… it measures really close to my other mics…

There’s got to be something else going on besides frequencie response… although 1db here and 1db there adds up to hundreds (maybe thousands) of db variants…. But there still something else and I don’t know what it is…

This mic “self noise” thing…… I wonder if that has something to do with it..


The umik2 does not have the small capsule either, it has a metal plate with some wires on it and a little gold stick thingy…. Totally different!!! I’m fact i sorta laughed at the fact the umik1 has the slots on the tip for the diffuse field thingy (I think) when the capsule head in mounted directly on top flush. So those slots were just for looks, nothing was under it…. The umik2 clearly utilizes those because the plate is obviously under that. With umik1 It was like a basic cellphone capsule mounted on a mic to look like a professional mic. They could’ve mounted it in a plastic housing like the audio frog mic…. Boring.

Idk…. Umik2, It’s so much better and gets down to business

If these Mics and their Calibrations were doing their job right, AND if the exact same room sampling locations were used, the results, the 'sound' should be very similar. BUT repeatable room measurement over multiple locations is virtually impossible. So the 'sound' you speak of, if I am understanding you correctly, is pretty much subject to random variations due to different sampling input. I have measured a UMIK with Cal, compared to a Bruel and Kjaer here. The FR graphs were within a dB mostly.

 

[Andrew Slater]

If these Mics and their Calibrations were doing their job right, AND if the exact same room sampling locations were used, the results, the 'sound' should be very similar. BUT repeatable room measurement over multiple locations is virtually impossible. So the 'sound' you speak of, if I am understanding you correctly, is pretty much subject to random variations due to different sampling input. I have measured a UMIK with Cal, compared to a Bruel and Kjaer here. The FR graphs were within a dB mostly.

Yeah after a few more tests , it’s almost identical to the umm6

So I was a bit overzealous

Although over and over umik2 although same tone as umm6 , with Dirac umik2 is more transparent and easy to identify detail

Less fuzzy or blurry …. That I’ve isolated as the difference

 

[goginux]

A good microphone,compared to more expensive microphones,is sonarworks xref20r5,i also had the previous version xref20,xref20r5 is a little more sensitive,it comes with a calibration file.Someone, compared it to icemcoon emx-7150, and it's about the same to measurements,i can not compare it with something better,for now,only with dbx rta-m and umik-1 CSL calibrated,i plan in the future to buy an eartworks M30.

 

[DanDan]

Mathias, Dirac Live guy, tells me that users have claimed better sonic results using better microphones. It seems likely than an M30 or B&K or Gefell or Neumann would have better responses in every aspect, and this is bound to impact the quality of the filters created.

 

[Andrew Slater]

Mathias, Dirac Live guy, tells me that users have claimed better sonic results using better microphones. It seems likely than an M30 or B&K or Gefell or Neumann would have better responses in every aspect, and this is bound to impact the quality of the filters created.

Oh really , they said that …. That makes sense

Well the CSL umik2 is pretty dam good!!! I don’t think I’ll rush out and spend 600+ when I just spent 200 and have all the 100$ mics already….

It’s good to know they acknowledge that…
It really is noticeable… clearer, more detail, less fuzzy or blurry in the detail.

And the detail is layered more…. Near field and far field are super easy to identify now

 

[DanDan]

Oh really , they said that …. That makes sense

Well the CSL umik2 is pretty dam good!!! I don’t think I’ll rush out and spend 600+ when I just spent 200 and have all the 100$ mics already….

It’s good to know they acknowledge that…
It really is noticeable… clearer, more detail, less fuzzy or blurry in the detail.

And the detail is layered more…. Near field and far field are super easy to identify now

I have a little PMIK which I like a lot. It has the right diameter for use with Level Calibrators. I can hide it and an iPhone on me in Nightclubs when doing Noise Surveys etc. etc. I recently ran a quick Dirac Live Cal using V3 software and my PMIK on a new PC laptop. Quite happy with the quick and easy Cal. I suspect the UMIK2 has the same capsule as the PMIK

 

[Andrew Slater]

What is a pmik

Do u have a link
I’m very curious I googled it and didn’t see anything

 

[goginux]

https://www.minidsp.com/images/documents/Product%20Brief-PMIK-1.pdf

MiniDSP PMIK-1 Measurement Microphone for Smartphones / Tablets - Audiophonics

The Pmik-1 is an omnidirectional microphone for smartphones and low noise tablets.

www.audiophonics.fr

 

[ManCaveAudio]

Hi all, I am using UMIK-1 & UMIK-2. My UMIK-1 always records the correct DB in REW in L & R channel but my UMIK-2 always measures less DB in the Left channel than right channel.
Overall umik2 record less DB than umik1.

What will be the reason behind these?

 

[Andrew Slater]

Hi all, I am using UMIK-1 & UMIK-2. My UMIK-1 always records the correct DB in REW in L & R channel but my UMIK-2 always measures less DB in the Left channel than right channel.
Overall umik2 record less DB than umik1.

What will be the reason behind these?

Are you using ASIO? you should if your other stuff lets you ….

And your cal file should have spl data in it
And make sure your WDM driver matches Java sample rate of on Java

If ASIO it will switch for you in REW

 

[ManCaveAudio]

Are you using ASIO? you should if your other stuff lets you ….

And your cal file should have spl data in it
And make sure your WDM driver matches Java sample rate of on Java

If ASIO it will switch for you in REW

Thanks Andrew.

I was using JAVA as I was calibrating my SUB. I will check my cal. file and WDM driver.

However, I got following response from MiniDsp.

"UMIK-1 and UMIK-2 are obviously MONO devices. All software like (REW/Dirac or others) will only look at the LEFT channel. Right channel is just a copy.
In UMIK-2, we attenuate the level. That's not an issue/error/faulty. Only left matter since it's a MONO microphone."

 

[Andrew Slater]

Yeah that’s right , left is the mic , some software will let you use the right because it is a monaural signal, just stuck with left for input device , but it shouldn’t matter they both work

Just make sure your not telling REW to have separate cal file for left and right , otherwise you need to load cal file on both ch..

Sounds like your getting it working nice, have you tried REW 5.2.14 , I like it a lot… you can download it on here

 

[AustinJerry]

Thanks Andrew.

I was using JAVA as I was calibrating my SUB. I will check my cal. file and WDM driver.

However, I got following response from MiniDsp.

"UMIK-1 and UMIK-2 are obviously MONO devices. All software like (REW/Dirac or others) will only look at the LEFT channel. Right channel is just a copy.
In UMIK-2, we attenuate the level. That's not an issue/error/faulty. Only left matter since it's a MONO microphone."

Yeah that’s right , left is the mic , some software will let you use the right because it is a monaural signal, just stuck with left for input device , but it shouldn’t matter they both work

Just make sure your not telling REW to have separate cal file for left and right , otherwise you need to load cal file on both ch..

Sounds like your getting it working nice, have you tried REW 5.2.14 , I like it a lot… you can download it on here

I am a long-time user of REW, and I have owned both the UMIK-1 and UMIK-2 for several years. TBH, I am having difficulty understanding what you both are talking about. What is the left and right channel for the mic? I am completely unaware of any left/right setting for either UMIK, Are you talking about the "1" and "2' choices in the Settings page? If yes, I am unaware of a difference between these two settings--I have used the "1" selection exclusively. And in a test I just ran, there is no difference in measured output levels between the two.

Obviously, I am confused by what you think is an issue. Please clarify for me.

 

[Andrew Slater]

I am a long-time user of REW, and I have owned both the UMIK-1 and UMIK-2 for several years. TBH, I am having difficulty understanding what you both are talking about. What is the left and right channel for the mic? I am completely unaware of any left/right setting for either UMIK, Are you talking about the "1" and "2' choices in the Settings page? If yes, I am unaware of a difference between these two settings--I have used the "1" selection exclusively. And in a test I just ran, there is no difference in measured output levels between the two.

Obviously, I am confused by what you think is an issue. Please clarify for me.

View attachment 60355

So , I have the pro version, and it lets me pick two ch if I want maybe that’s it

I’m also a smaart operator and it also pulls up umik with a left and right and signal on both

So mono is left and right together, true mono is left, and I think that’s a different subject , Google mono as left

So anyway , yeah if you measure and do sweeps , and set umik as L or R it works on both

In pro it asks if you want to separate the inputs and asks for a cal for each one , even though it’s one device it sees two channels

And don’t look in that drop-down dialog , instead hit the measure button and look inside there for inputs and outputs channel routing… you see it there I think

I hope that helps

 

[AustinJerry]

Well, thanks for clarifying. I don't use Pro, and I had no idea we were talking about Pro. Perhaps I should re-read the thread.

 

[Andrew Slater]

Well, thanks for clarifying. I don't use Pro, and I had no idea we were talking about Pro. Perhaps I should re-read the thread.

We weren’t talking about pro

 

[Andrew Slater]

I believe it’s in both , I was saying I could be wrong tho

 

[AustinJerry]

I believe it’s in both , I was saying I could be wrong tho

Kindly show me a screen shot of where a UMIK has settings for left and right inputs In "standard" REW. Of course, I could be wrong as well.