Audiolense XO Stability Experience

mccarty350

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I can't find a way to take a poll but given some of the other threads I'd like to gauge what the average stability experience is so that we have an over arching picture.

Here's my ask for those who participate (and if my questions are poor I'm game to revise them):

Question: On average how many issues to you experience with Audiolense XO. Issues being vaguely defined as over arching crashes, correction procedures that bomb out, measurements that crash or any other unanticipated result that falls under the genre of stability?
A. I never have stability issues.
B. On average 1 in 10 sessions I have with the software will result in an issue being experienced.
C. On average 1 in 5 sessions I have with the software will result in an issue being experienced.
D. On average 1 in 2 sessions I have with the software will result in an issue being experienced.
E. I have an issue every time I use the software.

My experience given my environment is D

My environment:
1. Windows 10 Pro
2. Early Generation i7 with 16 gigs of RAM
3. Asus Xonar U7 Mk II sound Card using Default Drivers
4. 8 channel convolution files being generated in almost every case.
5. ASIO4ALL being leveraged.
6. Minidsp UMIK for measurements.


Probably many other variables to my environment that I'm missing that are pertinent but perhaps we can find some commonalities on things that don't work well.
 

Mitchco

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Joined
Oct 1, 2017
Messages
47
Just a quick comment. I have been using Audiolense for over 12 years. And over the past 3 years pretty much everyday. As part of my DSP calibration service, I get to see client measurements from a wide variety of systems, both consumer and professional from around the world. No-one has reported stability issues with Audiolense.

I personally have not run into any instability issues over the past 12 years. Sure there have been a few hiccups, but Bernt has been very responsive in fixing any issues that are repeatable.

The number 1 issue I find is getting high quality measurements, specifically related to timing. Timing issues meaning when a measurement session is repeated 3 times in a row that the delays recorded in the measurement window, delay column, are the same. It is all about consistency. This issue sometimes can be exacerbated when the number of channels is increased.

These timing issues can be traced to some DAC's and more specifically the audio drivers for those DAC's seem to be not implemented very well. And it can be random. For some folks the combination of the same DAC in their system works fine but in others not so much.

There are so many variables in "computer-based" audio it is hard to determine what the actual cause is. But if you find a solution, Bernt already has a thread about "Sound card and microphone fixes" that one can post a solution there: https://www.avnirvana.com/threads/sound-card-microphone-fixes.10099/


Audiolense versions
 
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sshd

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Oct 27, 2022
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2
I have used Audiolense XO since 2010 and it has been some journey from B with AL4 to D with AL5-6.

My environment:
1. Windows 7
2. Intel Xeon with C226 chipset
3. Layla 3G, replaced with Motu 8A
4. Calibrated microphone bought from Bernt

You might need to tune your Windows, update/downgrade drivers, disable certain services and make sure you don't have any latency issues. This is relatively easy in Windows 7 with the dpclat tool, which doesn't work in W10+.

You also need to understand your audio interface and microphone amp. Certain noise issues on my Layla 3G were caused by 100% input level on the interface.

Audiolense 4.x never failed when measuring. It crashed from time to time when generating filters, but that was acceptable.

Audiolense 5.x (I tried several versions) had about 50% chance of completing the measurements and all of them were broken. According to Bernt, it was the more aggressive noise removal algorithm in AL5 than AL4 than broke them. There is a way to fix the measurement by looking at the graph, understanding what you see, clicking the right places, and undoing the noise removal. I don't like this. What else might be broken?

Audiolense 6 beta was unable to perform any measurements.

I am currently using AL6.7 filters with a measurement from AL4.12. The sound is wonderful and Bernt offered excellent advice and support. I am completely satisfied and have not bothered meassuring for three years.

One thing to note is that AL4.12 is a 32-bit application and meassures via 32-bit ASIO drivers.
Measurring with 64-bit AL will use 64-bit ASIO drivers. These drivers might not be as stable as the 32-bit.
 
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whoareyou

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Joined
Dec 23, 2021
Messages
104
More  
Main Amp
Benchmark AHB2
Additional Amp
ATI AT525NC
Computer Audio
JRiver
DAC
Exasound E38
Front Speakers
Psb synchrony one
Center Channel Speaker
PSB synchrony one C
Surround Speakers
Revel m105
I have had issues, but none of them showstoppers or what I'd call stability. And by that I mean app just shutting down.
Some, I believe are threading issues... i.e. Buttons that can be clicked when processing is in progress and these result in unhandled exceptions. Shouldn't happen, but nothing horrible happens.
I've had UI scaling issues in my environment(s). Other issues are with input fields. Sometimes I think I've entered a value but AL will "disagree" that the data was input.
Other hiccups are with target designer, particularly when I've tried multitargets. Sometimes data just disappears and necessitates it be reentered.

In all fairness, some of these I've reported and some I have not, but when reported they've been fixed / investigated if root cause can be determined/replicated, and Bernt has indicated he is working to resolve some of this stuff.
Overall, I've found most issues to be relatively minor, and I now probably work around them without realizing it, since I rarely encounter them.

Biggest difficulty was getting measurements to be reliable and/or just work. That took a while, but once I had that sorted out I seem to be mostly good to go whenever I've used AL.
 

Omid

Member
Joined
May 28, 2017
Messages
118
I just want to start by saying that Audiolense is an awesome piece of software that achieves great results. There are some annoyances but with patience, one can get the desired results.

My issues are similar to @whoareyou, but the one that stands out for me is measurement sweeps. I frequently get knocking sounds midway through a sweep. I stop the sweep right away to prevent speaker damage, so I admit I haven't saved the measurement to look for clues. If I run a sweep again, the same happens, unless I play 1-2 seconds of an audio track in Roon (I figure it resets the buffer? I might be wrong). I can then repeat the measurement without changing anything, and get an excellent measurement.

I find that longer sweeps are more likely to cause knocking sounds. If the playback is too loud, causing clipping, I think it might cause knocking too.

This happens even on a simple 2.0 setup, both on my Nuc PC as well as my Dell laptop. I think I also tried through a MAC using the AVB Ethernet connection to the MOTU without success. For a Dac, I use a MOTU 8A (tried both USB 3 and 2 cables & ports), although a Xonar U7 USB DAC had the same issue. I 've tried a USB mic (umm6) and a powered mic (emm6), same issues. I've used the MOTU driver, WASAPI, Directsound, WinMME, as well as ASIO4All, not all worked in my setup, but those that did had the same problem. I've tried with and without drift correction, same deal. I don't recall experimenting with noise removal though.

That said, sticking to a 3-5 second sweep, I do manage to get successful measurements after a couple of trials.

Again I want to echo @whoareyou's comments, Bernt has always been very receptive to troubleshooting issues, continually improving the software and generally helping out. I would not want anyone who is thinking about trying Audiolense to be discouraged by this discussion. The results are really worth the effort.
 
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mccarty350

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Thread Starter
Joined
Apr 5, 2021
Messages
52
I have used Audiolense XO since 2010 and it has been some journey from B with AL4 to D with AL5-6.

My environment:
1. Windows 7
2. Intel Xeon with C226 chipset
3. Layla 3G, replaced with Motu 8A
4. Calibrated microphone bought from Bernt

You might need to tune your Windows, update/downgrade drivers, disable certain services and make sure you don't have any latency issues. This is relatively easy in Windows 7 with the dpclat tool, which doesn't work in W10+.

You also need to understand your audio interface and microphone amp. Certain noise issues on my Layla 3G were caused by 100% input level on the interface.

Audiolense 4.x never failed when measuring. It crashed from time to time when generating filters, but that was acceptable.

Audiolense 5.x (I tried several versions) had about 50% chance of completing the measurements and all of them were broken. According to Bernt, it was the more aggressive noise removal algorithm in AL5 than AL4 than broke them. There is a way to fix the measurement by looking at the graph, understanding what you see, clicking the right places, and undoing the noise removal. I don't like this. What else might be broken?

Audiolense 6 beta was unable to perform any measurements.

I am currently using AL6.7 filters with a measurement from AL4.12. The sound is wonderful and Bernt offered excellent advice and support. I am completely satisfied and have not bothered meassuring for three years.

One thing to note is that AL4.12 is a 32-bit application and meassures via 32-bit ASIO drivers.
Measurring with 64-bit AL will use 64-bit ASIO drivers. These drivers might not be as stable as the 32-bit.

Good advice, perhaps I should drop down to 32 bit AL and might gain some stability?
 

mccarty350

Member
Thread Starter
Joined
Apr 5, 2021
Messages
52
I just want to start by saying that Audiolense is an awesome piece of software that achieves great results. There are some annoyances but with patience, one can get the desired results.

My issues are similar to @whoareyou, but the one that stands out for me is measurement sweeps. I frequently get knocking sounds midway through a sweep. I stop the sweep right away to prevent speaker damage, so I admit I haven't saved the measurement to look for clues. If I run a sweep again, the same happens, unless I play 1-2 seconds of an audio track in Roon (I figure it resets the buffer? I might be wrong). I can then repeat the measurement without changing anything, and get an excellent measurement.

I find that longer sweeps are more likely to cause knocking sounds. If the playback is too loud, causing clipping, I think it might cause knocking too.

This happens even on a simple 2.0 setup, both on my Nuc PC as well as my Dell laptop. I think I also tried through a MAC using the AVB Ethernet connection to the MOTU without success. For a Dac, I use a MOTU 8A (tried both USB 3 and 2 cables & ports), although a Xonar U7 USB DAC had the same issue. I 've tried a USB mic (umm6) and a powered mic (emm6), same issues. I've used the MOTU driver, WASAPI, Directsound, WinMME, as well as ASIO4All, not all worked in my setup, but those that did had the same problem. I've tried with and without drift correction, same deal. I don't recall experimenting with noise removal though.

That said, sticking to a 3-5 second sweep, I do manage to get successful measurements after a couple of trials.

Again I want to echo @whoareyou's comments, Bernt has always been very receptive to troubleshooting issues, continually improving the software and generally helping out. I would not want anyone who is thinking about trying Audiolense to be discouraged by this discussion. The results are really worth the effort.

Ditto for the results being worth the effort. I haven't found anything this good from a results perspective out there. Period.

Thank you for the advice. So part one is I'll try switching to 32 bit, part two I'll try sticking to relatively low sweeps. I might even be receptive to buying a new microphone/upgrading mine since apparently the UMIK's aren't great and the heart of audiolense operation relies on good measurements. I also have had the situation regarding the knocking occur before and indeed that one scared the crap out of me. It sounds like your success rate with measurements matches mine. If there is a certain piece of hardware that would work far better I'd absolutely consider it.
 
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