Are all turntables alike?

[ddude003]

I was looking at getting something with ht bypass to use of course with the x4200. I have no idea how to connect a separate 2ch amp with ht bypass to the x4200 and how it works.
Will all the speakers be connected to the x4200 except for the front left and right mains? How does the ht bypass work?

HT bypass is usually found on a PreAmplifier or Integrated Amplifier (read source + preamp + amplifier in one box)... So, if you are wanting to add an Amplifier to your Denon, there would be no need for HT bypass... You run your left and right preouts from your Denon into another amplifier's left and right ins... The center and surrounds are connected to your Denon as usual... For 2 channel you would select a stereo mode of signal processing with your Denon... For AV Multichannel, select a HT/Surround mode of signal processing with your Denon...

HT bypass usually bypasses the volume control subsystem of a PreAmplifier or Integrated and sometimes bypasses the entire preamplifier line stage... Otherwise you would be adjusting the volume on your Denon AVR as well as adjusting the volume on another preamplifier... Its not usually too swift to have two preamps, both with volume adjustments, back to back in a signal chain... A separate Amplifier does not usually have a volume control, it is the preamp that controls volume... There is often a gain adjustment for electrical signal matching between preamp and amplifier...

 

[Asere]

HT bypass is usually found on a PreAmplifier or Integrated Amplifier (read source + preamp + amplifier in one box)... So, if you are wanting to add an Amplifier to your Denon, there would be no need for HT... You run your left and right preouts from your Denon into another amplifier's left and right ins... The center and surrounds are connected to your Denon as usual... For 2 channel you would select a stereo mode of signal processing with your Denon... For AV Multichannel, select a HT/Surround mode of signal processing with your Denon...

HT bypass usually bypasses the volume control subsystem of a PreAmplifier or Integrated... Otherwise you would be adjusting the volume on your Denon AVR as well as adjusting the volume on another preamplifier... Its not usually too swift to have two preamps, both with volume adjustments, back to back in a signal chain... A separate Amplifier does not usually have a volume control, it is the preamp that controls volume... There is often a gain adjustment for electrical signal matching between preamp and amplifier...

For example I have an onkyo 805 receiver. If I wanted to use that receiver I like you mention connect the three L,R fronts from the denon L,R preouts to the L,R preouts on the onkyo while keeping all the speaker wires on the denon except for the L,R. Those would connect to the onkyo L,R speaker terminal. Is all this correct?

 

[ddude003]

For example I have an onkyo 805 receiver. If I wanted to use that receiver I like you mention connect the three L,R fronts from the denon L,R preouts to the L,R preouts on the onkyo while keeping all the speaker wires on the denon except for the L,R. Those would connect to the onkyo L,R speaker terminal. Is all this correct?

No... L and R PreOut from Denon must go to an L and R In on your Onkyo... A Aux In L and R maybe.. And no... You still have the issue of running two preamps back to back, both with volume... Both your Denon and Onkyo have preamps and amps built into each... If your Onkyo has a feature to bypass its volume control and power on with a preset volume only then maybe it could be used... And its not really optimal to go that route... Each step in the signal chain introduces noise... An extra preamp with volume control in your Onkyo are extra and unnecessary steps... Best to swap out that Onkyo processor/preamp/amp for a simple amp...

 

[Asere]

No... L and R PreOut from Denon must go to an L and R In on your Onkyo... A Aux In L and R maybe.. And no... You still have the issue of running two preamps back to back, both with volume... Both your Denon and Onkyo have preamps and amps built into each... If your Onkyo has a feature to bypass its volume control and power on with a preset volume only then maybe it could be used... And its not really optimal to go that route... Each step in the signal chain introduces noise... An extra preamp with volume control in your Onkyo are extra and unnecessary steps... Best to swap out that Onkyo processor/preamp/amp for a simple amp...

Why is a separate amp 2ch better then the receiver? I get it to drive 2ch alone but when I listen to vinyl with the denon I only use 2ch and don't utilize the other speakers. I even do pure direct mode. Therefore I am not using all the speakers at the same time so it's dedicated to only 2ch.
Is a dedicated 2ch amp much cleaner sounding?

 

[ddude003]

Why is a separate amp 2ch better then the receiver? I get it to drive 2ch alone but when I listen to vinyl with the denon I only use 2ch and don't utilize the other speakers. I even do pure direct mode.
Is a dedicated 2ch amp much cleaner sounding?

I'll just give you my two reasons I think a separate dedicated 2 channel amplifier would make a difference... One reason is that an AV receiver aka a processor/preamplifier/amplifier has a bunch of stuff (read signal processor, preamplifier, amplifier, video processor and network & I/O) all built into a single box... Just for kicks lets say that box sells for $1,000.00 and there are 5 block functions, see above, so $1,000.00 divided by 5 is $200.00 for each block function... So, the amplifier in this multifunction box is worth about $200.00... Not exactly, and you get the drift... And I don't know how good a $200.00 separate amplifier would sound... I am sure that is not what that person, that told you to get a separate amplifier for better sound, had in mind...

The second reason I think separates are better and sound better is because there is not all of that stuff in one box... Think electrical noise (shades of Maxwell, Faraday and Tesla)... The separates design is optimized for a single function...

If you like your system, you can keep your system... If you want more/better, you can always get more/better...

 

[Asere]

HT bypass is usually found on a PreAmplifier or Integrated Amplifier (read source + preamp + amplifier in one box)... So, if you are wanting to add an Amplifier to your Denon, there would be no need for HT bypass... You run your left and right preouts from your Denon into another amplifier's left and right ins... The center and surrounds are connected to your Denon as usual... For 2 channel you would select a stereo mode of signal processing with your Denon... For AV Multichannel, select a HT/Surround mode of signal processing with your Denon...

HT bypass usually bypasses the volume control subsystem of a PreAmplifier or Integrated and sometimes bypasses the entire preamplifier line stage... Otherwise you would be adjusting the volume on your Denon AVR as well as adjusting the volume on another preamplifier... Its not usually too swift to have two preamps, both with volume adjustments, back to back in a signal chain... A separate Amplifier does not usually have a volume control, it is the preamp that controls volume... There is often a gain adjustment for electrical signal matching between preamp and amplifier...

Basically if I connect the Denon and Onkyo like you explained I would need to adjust the volume on both receivers? Adjust when listening in stereo on one and adjust HT listening on the other?

 

[Tony V.]

Why not just use the pure direct mode of the receiver. No need to go with a separate unit. Pure direct turns off all processing even the display.

 

[Asere]

Why not just use the pure direct mode of the receiver. No need to go with a separate unit. Pure direct turns off all processing even the display.

Yes, that is exactly what I do use Pure Direct Mode. I was told that the weakest link I have is the avr for vinyl and a 2ch amp would be much better considering I am using a Lounge LCR Mk3 phono amp with my TT.

 

[Tony V.]

I disagree, I suspect that you would hear very little if any difference. Just leave it the way you have it and enjoy.

 

[ddude003]

Basically if I connect the Denon and Onkyo like you explained I would need to adjust the volume on both receivers? Adjust when listening in stereo on one and adjust HT listening on the other?

No... I have not ever, nor do I now suggest connecting both of your AVRs like this... And if you do go this route, you do so at your own risk... I was only correcting you connecting PreOut to PreOut...

 

[ddude003]

Yes, that is exactly what I do use Pure Direct Mode. I was told that the weakest link I have is the avr for vinyl and a 2ch amp would be much better considering I am using a Lounge LCR Mk3 phono amp with my TT.

I do not know who told you that or what their motivation might be... And I am guessing that what they may have meant was to connect to a totally separate preamp and/or amp and bypass the AVR entirely...

By the way, the LCR MKIII is a high quality, dual-mono, pure analog phonograph _preamp_...

If you want something better, then get something better... An Onkyo AVR is not better...

 

[Asere]

I do not know who told you that or what their motivation might be... And I am guessing that what they may have meant was to connect to a totally separate preamp and/or amp and bypass the AVR entirely...

By the way, the LCR MKIII is a high quality, dual-mono, pure analog phonograph _preamp_...

If you want something better, then get something better... An Onkyo AVR is not better...

Correct, bypass the avr entirely for 2ch using am amp with ht bypass.
Yes I really enjoy the Lounge.

 

[ddude003]

Correct, bypass the avr entirely for 2ch using am amp with ht bypass.
Yes I really enjoy the Lounge.

I get the feeling we are going in circles here... I have already said, above in post 126, that an "HT Bypass" feature may be found on a stand alone preamplifier or an integrated preamplifier+amplifier... Not likely to find on a stand alone amplifier...

I am sorry that I mixed phrases by saying "bypass the AVR entirely" used in a different context... To be more clear, I am talking about physically connecting the Lounge directly to a stand alone preamplifier and in-turn stand alone amplifier... Thus removing the AVRs entirely from this vinyl analogue configuration...

 

[Asere]

I get the feeling we are going in circles here... I have already said, above in post 126, that an "HT Bypass" feature may be found on a stand alone preamplifier or an integrated preamplifier+amplifier... Not likely to find on a stand alone amplifier...

I am sorry that I mixed phrases by saying "bypass the AVR entirely" used in a different context...

No worries. I think I'm just going to continue with the x4200 receiver. I thought I'd look into it but seems complicated learning the terms and what works with what.
The system sounds good already especially with the lounge.

 

[Grayson Dere]

No worries. I think I'm just going to continue with the x4200 receiver. I thought I'd look into it but seems complicated learning the terms and what works with what.
The system sounds good already especially with the lounge.

You mentioned a very important key sentence here: "The system sounds good already especially with the lounge." Many times you will be tempted to upgrade and upgrade and upgrade...but at some point I think it makes perfect sense to just sit back and enjoy the music : ) Unless there's something in the sound quality that's truly bothering you I agree with Tony's above comment on just leaving things alone and enjoying it.

 

[Travis Ballstadt]

I frequently catch myself trying to find my next upgrade, just for the sake of trying to improve something. I can usually pair those moments up with sub-par content.

My 2ch system is fantastic. So is my theater. But if I put in a movie, or put on a record that isn't completely captivating, my mind wanders and my eyes look around to identify a new upgrade. Almost as if replacing my sub will make XYZ123 a better movie, or bi-amping my speakers will make England Dan and John Ford Coley's albums better (pro-tip: that's impossible).

Rather than trying to find new gear additions, spend that time and money looking for additional content. You'll get much more enjoyment out of it.

 

[ddude003]

I frequently catch myself trying to find my next upgrade, just for the sake of trying to improve something. I can usually pair those moments up with sub-par content.

My 2ch system is fantastic. So is my theater. But if I put in a movie, or put on a record that isn't completely captivating, my mind wanders and my eyes look around to identify a new upgrade. Almost as if replacing my sub will make XYZ123 a better movie, or bi-amping my speakers will make England Dan and John Ford Coley's albums better (pro-tip: that's impossible).

Rather than trying to find new gear additions, spend that time and money looking for additional content. You'll get much more enjoyment out of it.

I don't disagree with the notion that you can be happy with what you have... And I see that you have a Tubed 2 Channel System as well as a Home Theater System... For some an Integrated AVR is enough... Others, not so much... We each have, or search for, our own AV NIRVANA...

 

[Travis Ballstadt]

I don't disagree with the notion that you can be happy with what you have... And I see that you have a Tubed 2 Channel System as well as a Home Theater System... For some an Integrated AVR is enough... Others, not so much... We each have, or search for, our own AV NIRVANA...

Absolutely. Just don't let it consume you and rob you of enjoyment.

 

[Grayson Dere]

I frequently catch myself trying to find my next upgrade, just for the sake of trying to improve something. I can usually pair those moments up with sub-par content.

My 2ch system is fantastic. So is my theater. But if I put in a movie, or put on a record that isn't completely captivating, my mind wanders and my eyes look around to identify a new upgrade. Almost as if replacing my sub will make XYZ123 a better movie, or bi-amping my speakers will make England Dan and John Ford Coley's albums better (pro-tip: that's impossible).

Rather than trying to find new gear additions, spend that time and money looking for additional content. You'll get much more enjoyment out of it.

This is good, Thrillcat. Every now and then I'll play an album on my system and wonder why it sounds so compressed and edgy in the highs...then I'll put on something I know was recorded well and sit back in relief. I still have to remind myself the recordings do matter!!

 

[Travis Ballstadt]

A few weeks ago I picked up Daft Punk's Random Access Memories on 180g vinyl. Every time I put it on, I'm blown away at how good it sounds. Even if it's not your cup of tea, musically, it's a fun album, it really does groove, and it sounds absolutely phenomenal. Reference material for sure.

And just as a baseline, prior to owning this album, I really only had passive knowledge of Daft Punk. I occasionally put on the TRON: Legacy soundtrack as background music at work, but that was about it. Heard a couple tracks from R.A.M. at a friend's house and had to order it.

 

[Grayson Dere]

A few weeks ago I picked up Daft Punk's Random Access Memories on 180g vinyl. Every time I put it on, I'm blown away at how good it sounds. Even if it's not your cup of tea, musically, it's a fun album, it really does groove, and it sounds absolutely phenomenal. Reference material for sure.

And just as a baseline, prior to owning this album, I really only had passive knowledge of Daft Punk. I occasionally put on the TRON: Legacy soundtrack as background music at work, but that was about it. Heard a couple tracks from R.A.M. at a friend's house and had to order it.

I need to get a copy of R.A.M. I keep reading and hearing how good of an album it is.

 

[Asere]

You mentioned a very important key sentence here: "The system sounds good already especially with the lounge." Many times you will be tempted to upgrade and upgrade and upgrade...but at some point I think it makes perfect sense to just sit back and enjoy the music : ) Unless there's something in the sound quality that's truly bothering you I agree with Tony's above comment on just leaving things alone and enjoying it.

You may be right. Most of the time we search for better and better and waste money when it might not sound any better. I will stick to what I have for now. Besides usually an external amp/preamp is for people what listen loud reference or lower. I don't get close to reference much.

 

[Grayson Dere]

You may be right. Most of the time we search for better and better and waste money when it might not sound any better. I will stick to what I have for now. Besides usually an external amp/preamp is for people what listen loud reference or lower. I don't get close to reference much.

Sometimes I'm in disbelief when I listen to some systems that literally cost $150,000 and I am unimpressed. The audio hobby can be downright frustrating sometimes when trying to piece together gear that sounds well together.

 

[Jack]

Based on what has been previously discussed, it is my opinion that adding an external amplifier would most probably be of the least benefit when you are driving only 2 channels of surround such as for vinyl. Having said that, I do not believe that all amplifiers sound alike nor do I believe that all DVR‘s sound alike however, there are other places where you can spend the same amount of money that would greatly change the sound of your system.

 

[Asere]

Based on what has been previously discussed, it is my opinion that adding an external amplifier would most probably be of the least benefit when you are driving only 2 channels of surround such as for vinyl. Having said that, I do not believe that all amplifiers sound alike nor do I believe that all DVR‘s sound alike however, there are other places where you can spend the same amount of money that would greatly change the sound of your system.

My SVS Prime towers specs recommended amplifier power: 20-250 watts. If my receiver has 125 per CH does this mean I can benefit from an external amp with 150 or more? Or don't bother? This would be for HT not 2Ch vinyl.