Are all turntables alike?

Discussion in 'Two Channel Hi-Fi Equipment' started by Asere, Oct 8, 2018.

  1. Asere

    Asere AV Addict
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    I had ordered the cheap Pyle pp999 and it arrived today. More like a listen and if no change return kinda thing. I wanted to start out cheap it's only $14.
    I listened but no difference from my receiver phono.
    I guess because it's a cheap amp. What im afraid of doing is buying a more expensive one like $300 and experience the same.
     
    #101 Asere, Jan 21, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2019
  2. Asere

    Asere AV Addict
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    Yes I need to read up on all this. With the Vincent Pho 8 not having gain management settings is that not a good thing? That may be simpler for me. What limitations can someone have without gain management?
     
  3. ddude003

    ddude003 Active Member

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    The limitation is a mismatch with the Phono Cartridge to the PreAmp because of too little or too much gain you will end up with compromised sound... Poor dynamics and soundstage to outright noise, distortion and eventual clipping... I would expect a good Solid State Phono Stage to allow the perfect match between Phono Cartridge and PreAmp clean crisp straight thru wire so to speak... A Tubed Phono Stage would shape the sound and sweeten it up a bit, depending the the tubes you put in it... Everything from thick and slow and sweet to bubble and sparkle by rolling in different tubes... This can be a lot of fun or disappointment depending on your point of view while searching for your personal sound... The sound that connects you to your music and AV NIRVANA...
     
    #103 ddude003, Jan 21, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2019
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  4. Asere

    Asere AV Addict
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    Apart from clarity isn't raising the volume on the receiver the same as adding dB on the preamp?
     
  5. ddude003

    ddude003 Active Member

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    I am not exactly sure what you are asking here... Gain and Volume are not the same thing...
    Gain controls the voltage amplification of the circuit. Volume control reduces the overall signal level, when turned up all the way, it simply acts as a wire.

    Remember that the Phone Stage is a PreAmp and the Receiver/AVR is a source (radio for instance) or source in (aux in for instance) as well as a PreAmp and Amplifier... The Volume on the Receiver would be an Attenuator on its internal PreAmp signal path... Again, there are two PreAmps in this total signal path... One is in the Phone Stage and the other is in the Receiver...

    The short of it is that you want to Voltage Match the Phono Cartridge to the Phono Preamp, the Phono Preamp to the Receiver Preamp and Receiver and in-turn the Receiver Amplifier..
     
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  6. Asere

    Asere AV Addict
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    Yes that was what I was asking. If gain and volume was about the same simply because I figured if you increase the gain db why bother with a preamp and why not increase the receiver volume.
    What you just mentioned cleared it though.
    I'm leaning towards the schiit mani because the gain control seems simple enough. The company told me most of the time 42db works well and that's how it already comes. I can always change it of course.
    Now how do you know what's close to matching the voltage on the phono cartridge?
     
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  7. ddude003

    ddude003 Active Member

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    Read the specs/docs that come with the Phono Cartridge and the specs/docs that come with the Schiit Mani and Do The Math...
     
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  8. Asere

    Asere AV Addict
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    The specs for the 2M blue is recommended load capacitance - 150-300 pF. The Schiit has no info on what voltage matches. Maybe the out of box 42dB. I emailed Schiit and am waiting to hear from them.
     
  9. ddude003

    ddude003 Active Member

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  10. Asere

    Asere AV Addict
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  11. ddude003

    ddude003 Active Member

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    It looks like "Standard MM Mode" Gain 1 = L, Gain 2 = H with a gain of 42dB would be where to start...
    Less Gain is "Decca Mode" Gain 1 = L, Gain 2 = L with a gain of 30dB...
    And more Gain is "Low Output MM/High Output MC Mode" Gain 1 = H, Gain 2 = L with a gain of 48dB...

    Those seem to be your choices... Lets see what the Schiit folks say...

    I hate that Ortofon used ,s for .s and vice versa in their specs...
     
    #111 ddude003, Jan 23, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2019
  12. Asere

    Asere AV Addict
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    Thanks for the info. The Schiit seems to have a better gain layout then the Project Tube Box DS. I couldn't understand the info they had but then again this is all new to me.
    Also what an interesting name huh..Schiit.
     
  13. ddude003

    ddude003 Active Member

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    The Project Tube Box DS does have a more granular gain selection as well as some filtering...
    Seems counterintuitive to hook a $130 phono stage to a $250 cartridge... However, price is not always indicative of performance...
     
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  14. Asere

    Asere AV Addict
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  15. ddude003

    ddude003 Active Member

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  16. Asere

    Asere AV Addict
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    That's true personal preference but it helps when the little guy has topped off some of the bigger more expensive giants.
     
  17. Grayson Dere

    Grayson Dere Moderator
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    "Gain controls the voltage amplification of the circuit. Volume control reduces the overall signal level, when turned up all the way, it simply acts as a wire."

    Thanks for this!! I've wondered for a long while now about how to word the differences.
     
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  18. Asere

    Asere AV Addict
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    I may not get the schiit since the capacitance is 100pf. I saw a Lounge Audio LCR phono pre that has a capacitance of 100pf but that's still low to match my blue cartridge of 150pf-300pf.
    The Lounge also has a max 40db gain vs the schiit starting 42db.
    You guys familiar with the Lounge MKiii preamp?
     
    #118 Asere, Jan 27, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2019
  19. Asere

    Asere AV Addict
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    I ended up with the Lounge lcr mkiii and I like it so far. The vocals are clear and I don't need to turn it up too much because of the 40db gain.
    Also for fun I bought the schiit mani used just to do comparisons.
     
  20. ddude003

    ddude003 Active Member

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    Nice to hear you are happy so far... I've heard good things about Lounge... Give it some time to run-in... 40 to 100 hours depending on the caps in there... And let us know how it gets on and what you think of the Schiit...
     
    #120 ddude003, Feb 10, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
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  21. Grayson Dere

    Grayson Dere Moderator
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    Excellent choice! I've read reviews in the past on Lounge LCR products and they were all very positive. Enjoy!! : )
     
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  22. Jack

    Jack Moderator
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    Think of this in respect to a guitar amplifier. Most tube amps include a gain and volume control. The gain control
    allows the user to adjust the amplifier output to use the full range of volume control on the headunit.

    Turn up the gain control to essentially shape the sound of the amp before volume is applied. This was you can get that overdriven sound at low or high volume settings. The volume control does not turn anything up, it can only lower it.

     
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