What could cause this issue?

rafaeldatarock

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Hi everyone!

After messing around with a tone generator and an EQ I sorta managed to correct a major error in my listening setup. But only sorta...
I noticed two especially problematic frequencies:
  • 113Hz (way too quiet) ±18dB
  • 123Hz (way too loud) ±18dB
In both cases, the correction seems to work best with a very sharp Q (factor 10).
I think the 123Hz bump is simply a standing wave, when I pull it down by 18dB's the volume levels out nicely compared to lower and higher frequencies.
The 113Hz dip is a but more interesting, because this dip only occurs: in front, between the speakers. Not: in front, outside the speakers. It's as if this exact frequency is exactly 180° out of phase between both speakers.

So this made me wonder, what could be the cause of the 113Hz problem? I don't know if this makes sense, but it is as if the 123Hz bump problem is caused by the length of my room, and the 113Hz dip problem is caused by the width of my room. I am on the right track here?

I'm interested to hear what you think! :)

P.S. Attached is a screenshot of the correction curve which smooths out both, for my listening position.
 

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thothsong

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Have you tried plugging your room dimensions and speaker placement into REW's Room Simulation?
 

ddude003

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Try this https://amcoustics.com/tools/amroc
Post up your .mdat file... Screen shots aren't much use... Also, a little info about your kit and room dimensions would be helpful for those of us who might help...

Depending on how narrow the dip (null) is it may be inaudible... Also, you may not want to boost it by +18db with traditional EQ...
For extra credit... What is the size/distance of a 113Hz wave? And does it equal the width of your room?
 
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Todd Anderson

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What kind of system do you have? Speakers or speakers and subs?
 

JStewart

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Hi everyone!

After messing around with a tone generator and an EQ I sorta managed to correct a major error in my listening setup. But only sorta...
I noticed two especially problematic frequencies:
  • 113Hz (way too quiet) ±18dB
  • 123Hz (way too loud) ±18dB
In both cases, the correction seems to work best with a very sharp Q (factor 10).
I think the 123Hz bump is simply a standing wave, when I pull it down by 18dB's the volume levels out nicely compared to lower and higher frequencies.
The 113Hz dip is a but more interesting, because this dip only occurs: in front, between the speakers. Not: in front, outside the speakers. It's as if this exact frequency is exactly 180° out of phase between both speakers.

So this made me wonder, what could be the cause of the 113Hz problem? I don't know if this makes sense, but it is as if the 123Hz bump problem is caused by the length of my room, and the 113Hz dip problem is caused by the width of my room. I am on the right track here?

I'm interested to hear what you think! :)

P.S. Attached is a screenshot of the correction curve which smooths out both, for my listening position.

Although most of it goes right over my head, this thread may provide a clue as to what is going on for you.
The OP is the author of FlexAsio, by the way.
 

NBPK402

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I do not know if this will help, but I read somewhere that when tuning your speakers you should have the left and right channel both on when tuning bass. They said that by having both channels on bass eliminates bass being cancelled. They said that your mids and highs could still be tuned individually.
 

rafaeldatarock

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What kind of system do you have? Speakers or speakers and subs?
I have a set of Adam A7's paired with a sub (BNS SDS-Sub mkII) by an obscure and long gone speaker builder from the Netherlands.
I don't have a lowcut on the Adam's, but I do have a highcut on the sub at +- 80Hz. (I have no idea what slope, can't find any documentation on this sub online and the booklet that came with it is of a different model)
 

rafaeldatarock

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Try this https://amcoustics.com/tools/amroc
Post up your .mdat file... Screen shots aren't much use... Also, a little info about your kit and room dimensions would be helpful for those of us who might help...

Depending on how narrow the dip (null) is it may be inaudible... Also, you may not want to boost it by +18db with traditional EQ...
For extra credit... What is the size/distance of a 113Hz wave? And does it equal the width of your room?
Will definitely not use +18dB EQ!
And you are spot on, the length of a single 113Hz cycle is ~3,04m.. Which is exactly the width of my room. Thanks!
 

ddude003

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Sony UBP-X700 /M Ultra HD 4K HDR & PS5
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Martin Logan ElectroMotion ESL
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Martin Logan Motion 4 (yes, another set of these)
Subwoofers
Martin Logan Dynamo 700
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Cifte 12AU7 NOS & Genalex Gold Lion Tubes in Pre
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Samsung The Premiere LSP7T UST Laser Projector
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Elite Screens Aeon CLR3 0.8 Gain 103-inch
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Netgear Nighthawk S8000 Streaming Switch, Lumin U1 Mini Streamer Transport
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QoBuz Studio Premier, Amazon Prime & Netflix
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ThrowRug, SaddleBlankets, WideBand & Bass Traps...
Will definitely not use +18dB EQ!
And you are spot on, the length of a single 113Hz cycle is ~3,04m.. Which is exactly the width of my room. Thanks!
Nulls caused by room mode(s) can not be corrected by boosting EQ... Because direct sound is cancelled by the reflected sound... If you try to equalize, boost, you will increase both direct and reflected sound... A catch 22... And traditional EQ at those low frequencies may cause (pre)ringing...

Speaker placement, sub placement, multi subs, and bass trapping are pretty well known solutions... And then there are some interesting ways like...

 

Todd Anderson

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Center Channel Speaker
GoldenEar Technology SuperCenter Reference
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SVS Ultra Surround
Surround Back Speakers
SVS Ultra Bookshelf
Front Height Speakers
SVS Prime Elevation x4 (Top Front, Top Mid-Front)
Rear Height Speakers
SVS Prime Elevation x4 (Top Middle, Top Rear)
Subwoofers
dual SVS SB16s + dual PSA XS30s
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Behringer 1124p; Aura Bass Shaker Pros; SuperSub X
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Seymour Screen Excellence, Enlightor NEO AT Screen
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LG Electronics 65-inch B6 OLED, Sony 65-inch X900F, ZeroSurge 8R15W x 2, ZeroSurge 2R15W x 2
I have a set of Adam A7's paired with a sub (BNS SDS-Sub mkII) by an obscure and long gone speaker builder from the Netherlands.
I don't have a lowcut on the Adam's, but I do have a highcut on the sub at +- 80Hz. (I have no idea what slope, can't find any documentation on this sub online and the booklet that came with it is of a different model)

Hmm. So this is happening well above a crossover point between your sub and Adams. I'm baffled. It does look like a phase issue... I wonder if wiring in one of the speakers is crossed?

Admittedly, this is a bit outside of my realm of expertise. Super interesting, tho
 

ddude003

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PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium TubePre (2 channel+sub)
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McIntosh MC152 SS Amp (2 channel)
Additional Amp
Yamaha RX-A850 Pro (the other 5 channels lol)
Computer Audio
MacBook Pro, Custom i7 7700k De-lid 2xAsus1080ti GFX Audirvana Studio, Hang Loose Convolver, Pulsar Massive & 8200, LiquidSonics, SoX
DAC
Chord Electronics Ltd. Qutest
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
Sony UBP-X700 /M Ultra HD 4K HDR & PS5
Front Speakers
Martin Logan ElectroMotion ESL
Center Channel Speaker
Martin Logan Motion C2
Surround Speakers
Martin Logan Motion 4
Surround Back Speakers
Martin Logan Motion 4 (yes, another set of these)
Subwoofers
Martin Logan Dynamo 700
Other Speakers or Equipment
Cifte 12AU7 NOS & Genalex Gold Lion Tubes in Pre
Video Display Device
Samsung The Premiere LSP7T UST Laser Projector
Screen
Elite Screens Aeon CLR3 0.8 Gain 103-inch
Remote Control
PrimaLuna, Lumin iApp, Samsung & Yamaha
Streaming Equipment
Netgear Nighthawk S8000 Streaming Switch, Lumin U1 Mini Streamer Transport
Streaming Subscriptions
QoBuz Studio Premier, Amazon Prime & Netflix
Other Equipment
ThrowRug, SaddleBlankets, WideBand & Bass Traps...
@rafaeldatarock... If I read the specs on those Adams correctly, they go down into the 40Hzs... You might try moving your subs crossover down somewhere a little above where the Adams go down to... Post up an .mdat file with single Left, single Right, and single Sub sweeps... And what are the rooms measurements?

Is this a Near field or desktop type system? Could be reflections from ceiling and desktop or mixing console... It is always helpful to give up a little more information about your use case and the entire kit involved...
 
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