Outlaw Audio Model 976 7.2 Surround Processor Review

Manufacturer & Model
Outlaw Audio Model 976 7.2 Surround Processor
MSRP
$929
Link
https://bit.ly/2xf7whK
Highlights
Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby Digital, DTS-HD Master Audio, DTS-HD High-Resolution Audio and DTS decoding, balanced and conventional outputs in a 7.2 configuration fed by high quality DACs, 7.1 analog inputs, 4 HDMI 4K/HDR Inputs, 2 HDMI Outputs (1 HDMI 2.0b/ HDCP 2.2 output), 192 kHz 24-bit DAC's for all channels.
Summary
Outlaw Audio's Model 976 is a quality piece of gear with impressive build characteristics, high-quality internal electronics, capable firmware with flexible parametric EQ, and amazing sound. If you are in the market for a highly capable surround processor with HDMI 2.1 performance, this model should be on your shortlist. Priced at $929, the Outlaw Audio Model 976 represents an excellent value.
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The Outlaw Audio Model 976 processor is an exciting and feature-packed home theater processor from a company known for no-nonsense high-value offerings. The 976 is a 7.1 channel surround processor offering high-quality sound, flexible implementation offerings, and a modest price. While it doesn’t offer immersive surround formats such as Atmos, for those not interested in adding this feature, you get a processor that does everything else extremely well.

When discussing the Model 976 with Peter Tribeman, a founder of Outlaw Audio, he frequently relayed the notion that Outlaw Audio would never release a product they couldn’t afford to buy themselves. You will never see needlessly expensive luxury audio gear, and the features they include are the ones they most want themselves. That has allowed them to put together a product that, once set up properly, works as expected. This philosophy aligns with my top requirements for any piece of audio gear, but especially highly complex products such as surround processors. It needs to work reliably and perform as intended 100-percent of the time.

During my time with the Outlaw 976, I can happily say it worked flawlessly, with no operational problems or sound quality issues (at least none that I can blame on Outlaw). Watching movies or listening to music was immensely enjoyable, and the sound quality improvement it afforded over my current Onkyo surround processor was immediately evident. To learn more about the 976 and why I liked it so much, continue below.


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Outlaw Audio Model 976 Unboxing and Features
Opening the 976 was reminiscent of experiencing old-school American muscle. I knew this product was safe because it was double boxed in heavy cardboard with large molded foam inserts, the same way the best gear has been packaged for decades. I must be honest, while I like the new packaging techniques, I don’t like having to find all the accessories in the hidden compartments. With the Model 976, it was refreshing to see all the accessories clearly laid out in the box.

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As for the feature set, this is both a highly complex and yet intuitively simple device. It’s not perfect, which I will discuss, but for most buyers this has the exact features they’ll need. The Model 976 includes HDMI inputs and outputs that support the most current 4K and HDR formats (HDMI 2.0b with HDCP 2.2 compliance), fully balanced and unbalanced inputs and outputs for a full 7.1 system (Some call this a 7.2 processor, but the subwoofer channels are not individually addressable, so I say it is a .1 not .2 product), and decoding for all current surround formats with the exception of Atmos, DTS-X, and the like.

Around back you find a much more complex device. As with any surround processor, one look at the back of this product can feel intimidating. Yet it is very well laid out and easy to connect. Given that it’s a state of the art 7.1 processor, the fact there aren’t more connections is a miracle. What you find are 7.1 channels of balanced outputs across the bottom (two subwoofer outs), 7.1 channels of single-ended outputs above them, four analogue inputs simply labeled 1 through 4, a 7.1 channel input, two optical and two coaxial digital inputs, an RS-232 input for firmware updates, antennae inputs, a Bluetooth input which allows for the addition of an optional Bluetooth module (and future upgrades to the module as technology changes), six HDMI inputs (five on the back, four of which are HDCP2.2 compliant, and one on the front), two HDMI outputs (one is HDCP 2.2 compliant), a set of IR inputs and outputs, trigger controls, and two USB power ports (they are not used to input sound, just power).

This kind of connectivity set is great for custom installers or consumers looking to add greater integration, while not being too complex for the target buyer. Outlaw Ben Brewer (Product Manager) tells me that the inclusion of an older non-HDCP 2.2 compliant HDMI input was targeted toward older HDMI gear that sometimes doesn’t play nice with the newest standards. All in all, I find this a very well thought out package, clearly, the Outlaws know what they are doing.

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Now all of these nice inputs, outputs, and decoding capabilities would be nothing if not for the software that brings it all together. This is where I need to give you my opinion of this product both from the standpoint of its target buyer and my own personal preferences. I also need to mention a quirk in the software, but as we will discuss, this quirk is not the fault of Outlaw and, in fact, likely exists in all products using the same chipset.



We should all petition Texas Instruments!
Let’s start by discussing one of the major selling points of this processor, its EQ features. Each channel is said to have 10 channels of PEQ. However, I need to explain what that means in practice and what the Outlaws have said is technically true (I personally find it a little misleading). In fact, the processor has ten channels of processing that’s applied to each channel prior to bass management, each with eight bands of traditional parametric EQ (amplitude, Q, and center frequency), and two shelf filters, one high and one low. Shelf filters are handy for adjusting the overall tonal balance of a system. They allow you to shelve down the treble a few dB’s and shelve up the bass a few dB’s creating a pleasant house curve. Accessing and adjusting the bands is cumbersome, I have to admit longing for another means to make such adjustments. If Outlaw would release a software app that allowed you to connect via RS-232 to upload the EQ bands, that would make setup easier. Nonetheless, it was doable using the remote and didn’t take very long. It’s also no more difficult to set up than any competing product with manual EQ facilities; my complaint is more general: the industry should embrace better ways to set up its hardware (and certainly some have). Smartphone apps, web interfaces, or computer programs would all be appreciated options in my opinion.

Next, we have the bass management and level setting portion of the 976. For this, the Model 976 threw me for a loop, but in its defense, Outlaw is clear in their instructions and FAQ (I am a typical guy however and did not read the directions). I plugged in an included measurement microphone, set it in my primary listening position, and ran the tests.

“Huh, that’s strange,” I thought, it doesn’t seem to recognize what speakers I have hooked up?

Well, that would be because I was supposed to tell it that ahead of time. I went back into the menu and established which speakers I had hooked up and their size/crossover point. I re-ran the measurements and it established the level and distance for me. Outlaw Audio made a conscious choice to limit the setup flexibility of the bass management in a way that I didn’t personally like. My preference is to run the mains full range with subwoofers such that there is no crossover between the mains and subs. They both operate at LF’s at the same time, overlapping in response in a critical zone. I prefer this because it increases the number of low-frequency sources in a critical area of modal behavior and helps improve bass smoothness and spatial consistency. However, this is achieved through careful set up, often aided by measurements and some knowledge of the concept and how it works. Otherwise, it tends to just make things worse. This is a common experience shared by some past Outlaw users, and to avoid this problem Outlaw decided not to include this bass management approach. As such, if you run the speakers as large or full range, the subs will not operate except for LFE duty. This being the case, I ran the speakers as small, set to 60Hz. The main purpose of the microphone and automatic setup was to establish the distance and relative levels between speakers. In the end, using measurements, I made some adjustments. My highly unusual and complex LF setup caused some confusion for the algorithm that sets subwoofer distance, and so I needed to manually adjust this until the time delay between the subwoofers and mains was minimized. Since I use a four subwoofer setup with digital signal processing in my external amplifiers, the fact that my system threw off the automatic distance settings is not a knock on the device, none have ever gotten it right. In the end, while I was left wishing for more setup flexibility in the bass management, I do understand the decisions made by the Outlaw Audio team. This product was intended to be easy to set up and use, adding extra flexibility for more complex or advanced setups would have made the product harder to use, harder for Outlaw to support, and ultimately more expensive. Given a choice of one or the other, I too would pick the simpler route.

The remote is a nice looking aluminum bar with white buttons that glow blue. Anyone with a complex home theater may integrate it with a universal control system and ditch the remote, but I’d guess most users will use it (and it worked great).


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Outlaw also sells a Bluetooth module (not reviewed) for $49.99. The module is removable and likely upgradeable as technologies change.

Finally, it’s worth mentioning that that the processor has unusually good parts for its price class (Burr Brown PCM1794a DAC and OPA1652). These parts are similar to those found in high-end 2-channel gear.


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Earlier, I referenced a certain quirk inherent in the TI DA808 chipset. The problem is the signal flow path that TI has chosen and what this does to the final product. The way in which the chip operates, the PEQ is applied to the discrete 7.1 channels before bass management. After EQ is applied, bass management is applied, which redirects a portion of the signal to other speakers. Here in lies the problem: you are EQ-ing the source, not the speaker, and that isn’t intuitive since the EQ’s purpose is to correct the speaker and room. This is problematic because if you are trying to remove the effects of room modes in the low frequencies, intuitively you would select the subwoofer or LFE channel to apply EQ. However, problematic low frequencies are likely coming from the main channels and being redirected to the subwoofer. Consequently, you need to apply that cut to the main left and right channel. This process can be a bit confusing at first, but once you understand how it works, applying EQ is very simple and very effective. This quirk would certainly not keep me from recommending this product (or owning it myself).

Once I identified the problem, I was able to make great use of the EQ, but I can absolutely see this non-sensical signal path causing problems for other end users. While talking with Ben, he indicated he was working on an EQ instruction document for owners, designed to ensure they make better decisions than I initially did. In my case, it turned out to be an invaluable tool. I only wish that TI would move the EQ filters after the bass management so that the EQ is being applied to the speaker, not the incoming signal.

Before and after EQ (Left, Center, and Left Surround)


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Note, before EQ there were some differences in the response shape, poor subwoofer integration between channels, and a prominent peak in the treble of the main speakers caused by the B&C DE250 at 18kHz.

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Careful response shaping allowed for better subwoofer integration with the different speaker channels such that the match between channels was much improved. The peak in the treble was removed from the mains with a small bit of EQ, which helped provide a response balance more similar to that of the surrounds. Further, a shelf filter was added to ensure a similar response shape across all the speakers.


Model 976 Sound
I often think of myself as being a very pragmatic audiophile. That is, I recognize the differences in sound quality between good and bad gear, I recognize why some gear costs more, and I will spend more money to get better sound. On the other hand, I tend to use average quality signal cables, inexpensive bulk speaker cable, and I don’t buy into a lot of the more unusual ideas around how to get better sound. Some of this comes from experience. I’ve tried expensive cables and I didn’t find the difference to be notable or clearly better. I’ve also tried various tweaks, isolation platforms, built amplifiers and speaker crossovers with high-end capacitors and resistors, etc. In the end, I’ve found some parts make a difference to a point, while others do not (for example, in crossovers the better poly film capacitors tend to sound better in crossover series components than do electrolytic, but Teflon film and oil don’t necessarily sound better than a more basic film and foil type). I tell you this story to explain that I went into this review expecting the surround processor to sound no different than my current Onkyo receiver, but to offer more flexibility. Instead, I was absolutely shocked by the change in sound I heard once the Model 976 was installed. In order to allow an A/B comparison, I connected the processor through my receiver, using the amplifiers in the receiver to power my system. This way I could quickly switch back and forth for a more instantaneous and accurate evaluation. While I did eventually bypass the receiver using external amps, this was a good test. With the Outlaw 976 in the signal path and the receiver in bypass mode (essentially a direct connection to the amplifier), I found the sound brighter (but not unnaturally so) and a bit more transparent. Now, bright sometimes comes off as transparent, so I wasn’t sure of what I was hearing. I shared this finding with a fellow reviewer who was highly skeptical and suggested I quantify my impressions with measurements. I did, finding the Onkyo’ s own processing caused a more rolled off response as compared to the Outlaw. The Onkyo also had an order of magnitude higher distortion, such that I could easily read it above the distortion of the measurement interface. The Outlaw had the same residual distortion as the measurement interface, suggesting I was just measuring the distortion and noise of the device itself. In other words, the Outlaw was both more extended in the high frequencies and of lower distortion. My ears did not lie, I wasn’t nuts, the Outlaw really did sound different, and the measurements sure suggested that this difference was due to objectively better performance.


Listening Tests
As for sound, it’s always hard for me to describe my experience with something like a surround processor. I certainly put it through its paces, playing a variety of music and movies. All were always enjoyable. Did I enjoy it more than before? Yes, I think I did. I really didn’t want to send the Outlaw Model 976 back and would have been happy to keep it in my system long term. The differences between the new processor and my old setup were subtle enough that it wasn’t always obvious what I was hearing. Some of the things I liked weren’t even related to its sound. For example, I preferred its PEQ on each channel and general setup flexibility. While the bass management didn’t suit me, I could easily bypass it and perform external bass management that met my needs. The system worked well and sounded great when set up this way. The perception of more extended highs and greater transparency wasn’t immediately obvious in listening tests, more of an impression left with me after I listened for a while, switching back and forth.

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To start off my music listening, I queued up one of my favorite albums by Lewis Nash, which I described as follows in my NAD C368 review:

“One of my all-time favorite test albums for drums and soundstage is by a wonderful bebop jazz drummer named Lewis Nash. The album, entitled It Don’t Mean a Thing, a reference to Duke Ellington’s hit song, is one of the best bebop jazz albums I’ve ever heard (and he’s even better life). It’s clearly a fully improvised jazz set, as it should be, but is often not the case in studio albums. Nobody was worried about getting the performance just so, everyone just grooved together, and the chemistry and magic of a great improvised jazz piece are obvious.”

“Caravan” has a great rhythmic drum beat that is both audibly impressive and revealing of lesser systems. Through the 976 I found a perfectly accurate portrayal of the sound. Lewis Nash uses a close-up multi-mic setup on the drum that is produced into a larger than life drum set with substantial width and depth. As Nash plays on the toms (his set is depicted as having two) you can hear a clear left and right channel separation, with what I would describe as a dry jazzy sound. He experiments with the portion of the head he plays and the change in sound is subtle but clear. On lesser systems this can go unnoticed. In fact, I first heard it on headphones, later noticing it more clearly on better quality playback systems. With the Model 976, the change in timbre as different parts of the head are played was clear. The visceral component, as well as the leading edge of the beat to the bass drum, came through clearly. On lesser systems, the bass drum tends to just sound boomy.


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I spent quite a lot of time listening to TIDAL HiFi and TIDAL Masters with my laptop as a source. Here’s a sampling of the music I listened to with some brief reactions:

Yo-Yo Ma and Kathryn Stott’s Songs from the Arc of Life, “Ave Maria." This is a beautiful song and one that causes a pilomotor reflex in me (goosebumps and raised hair), a proven measure of emotional response. After listening to certain pieces enough times I find that my emotional reaction fades as I become accustomed to the piece, and while I might enjoy it, it isn’t the same as the first time. When I queued this up to playback on the Outlaw, it was as if I was hearing it for the first time. I was lost in the music. The processor did nothing to harm this great recording, with a very clear and coherent presentation.
Mozart’s “Requiem: Amen” performed by the Boston Baroque and Martin Pearlman is a classic Mozart choral piece. This piece builds with grand drama at a pace modern attention deprived audiences can barely stand. This short building fugue is a great musical test piece as it contains both a large dynamic rise and wonderful silence between the notes. The 976 delivered a beautiful reproduction of this piece, nothing added, nothing taken away.



Movies
I watched The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies as part of this review. There is no denying the visual and aural effects of the Tolkien based movies, so this seemed like a fitting way to review the processor's prowess. This movie includes a great DTS-HD Master Audio 7.1 soundtrack and the 976 delivered an enveloping soundscape. I found, at times, that the soundtrack spooked me, causing me to pause the film and check for unexpected noises. Where some movies provide surround effects in a manner that is more a distraction than an enhancement, that was not the case here. Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying the 976 did anything magical here, it did exactly what it was supposed to do. It reproduced this soundtrack just as it was encoded, with nothing added or taken away. The slightly brighter presentation seemed to help with dialogue clarity. On the other hand, I don’t generally like a brighter presentation, so I found myself pausing the film and adding a few dBs of treble reduction using the shelf filter. It took just a few seconds to do this, and I was back in the action. That is one of the nice things about this processor, you can make basic adjustments like this to taste.

Thor: Ragnarök is another one of those action films where, regardless of your opinions on the acting or story, the action, visuals, and sound are undeniably spectacular. Relying upon another DTS-HD Master Audio 7.1 soundtrack, I found the encode’s aural effects and enveloping soundscape to be impressive. Highlighted by Hulk and Thor battle scenes that present low-frequency effects that best be described as an assault. As I explored the outer limits of this soundtrack, the 976 issued a clear and effortless sound even as pushed volume levels to the extreme. Even as my house shook, I found myself thoroughly impressed by the processor’s ability to drive a clean and enveloping presentation.



CONCLUSION
The Outlaw Audio Model 976 has been on my shortlist of processors I’d like to own and it didn’t disappoint. It’s an excellent piece of gear with a high-quality build, high-quality internal electronics, capable firmware with excellent flexible parametric EQ, and amazing sound. My quibbles with the bass management or wishing for easier set up are minor when considering how well the product worked once it was properly integrated, its reliable performance, and how wonderful it sounded. If you are in the market for a highly capable surround processor with excellent sound, the Outlaw Audio Model 976 is highly recommended. And at a price of $929, it’s an excellent value.


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Specifications
  • Surround Formats: Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Digital Plus, and Dolby Digital decoding; DTS-HD Master Audio, DTS-HD High-Resolution Audio and DTS decoding
  • Surround Upsampling: Dolby Pro Logic IIx, Dolby Pro Logic II, and DTS NEO:6 processing
  • 10 band PEQ per channel
  • All Channels Stereo
  • Advanced Dual Core DSP
  • HDMI Standby Pass-Thru
  • Quadruple Crossover control
  • Lip Sync Delay
  • On Screen Display
  • 192kHz 24-bit Dacs for all channels (Burr Brown PCM 1794a)
  • High-Quality opamp output stage (OPA1652)
  • 4 HDMI 4K/HDR Inputs
  • 2 HDMI 1080p inputs, 1 on the rear panel, 1 on front
  • 2 HDMI outputs, 1 HDMI 2.0b/ HDCP 2.2
  • 7.2 XLR/RCA Pre-amp outputs
  • 4 Digital inputs (2 coaxial, 2 optical)
  • 7.1 Analog Audio input
  • 4 Stereo Analog Audio Inputs
  • High-performance Tuner
  • Direct access station tuning via remote control
  • 5-volt trigger
  • Advanced Config. Settings
  • Discrete IR on/off and input commands
  • Aluminum Front Panel & Remote
  • S/N Ratio: 112 dB

Extended Measurements
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Stepped Sine Distortion with all EQ turned off. Completely flat response and distortion vanishingly low, .003% or less THD. I measured a noise floor of -105 dB, but note that this is likely the limit of my sound interface and not this processor.

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Stepped Sine Subwoofer channel, shows a 4th order roll-off at 200Hz and vanishingly low noise and distortion.

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Onkyo vs Outlaw response difference. Note the clear evidence that the Outlaw is operating in 96kHz whereas the Onkyo is operating in 44kHz with a slow roll-off filter. The bass response of the two looks identical because my measurement interface was the limiting factor in this case.
 
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gp4Jesus

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Feb 27, 2022
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Preamp, Processor or Receiver
Outlaw Audio 976
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Several Rotel RB-981s
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2 Rotel RB-980BX
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
Samsung 5900 BDP; Phillips CD changer
Front Speakers
Polk Audio RTi A7
Center Channel Speaker
CSi A6
Surround Speakers
RTi A3
Subwoofers
4 Audio Pro Subs; LFE Sunfire True Signature
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Samsung 60” LED
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Harmony
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Dish
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4 EXOs
I’ll take a SWAG: the DSP or DAC is taxed, perhaps? Maybe-e-e EQ induced phase distortion? I hope someone chimes in w/a more intelligent answer.
When I play certain material with high energy in the 60-80 Hz range with PEQ on, I get a buzzing sound on the bass peaks. (Think of a loose driver or something rattling softly on the enclosure.)
It's not my KEF LS50s, as it occurs on various headphones as well. When I listen on headphones, I can cause the buzzing to start and stop by turning EQ on and off.
Can you post the respective channel or channels EQ curve or describe the frequency peaks dips(dB and wide/medium/narrow band)
This is easily replicated by listening to the Chesky Spanish Harlem with Rebecca Pidgeon (24 bit, 96kHz FLAC from HD Tracks)... other bass-heavy material (e.g. Charlie Haden's string bass on Duets) are fine because they seem to miss that particular frequency range (or they have a different harmonic structure? darned if I know.)
PEQ ON or OFF?

Side note: have yet to pursue the power of REW. I’ve limited 976 PEQ to a small cut ~50hz in the LFE. I’ve applied all other DSP w/3rd party devices.
Tony
 

dreadknot

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outlaw audio 976 7.2 balanced receviver
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Crown xli 800 xls 1502
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Crown xli 800 , Crown xli 800
Other Amp
crown xls 1502
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
nvidia shield (2017 model)
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PL-89
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PL-28II (for sale)
Surround Speakers
Klipsch RB-81 (sold)
Surround Back Speakers
Klipsch RB-81
Front Height Speakers
none
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none
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none at the moment
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Vizio M55-E0 (2017 model) upgrading to tcl 55in
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i dont know if this does apply to but for me i had that same issue but for me it was for the reason as as i had on my pc with my balanced dac an amp with my planar headphones using the pulse effects peq eq that was the calibrated eq i had set was not effectively handling material with high energy in the 34-140 Hz range now my speakers are dual 8in bic towers with horn driver an a 98db sensitivity (2.83V/1m) vs the kefs 5.25in coaxial driver an 85db but it might be the same issue

that is the eq'ed db target curve an tolerance leading to distortion my original calibrated setup for my bic's was using the recommended or advised -6db for headroom target from REW WIZARD at least according to all the forums an youtube vids i followed so my solution for both my headphones an speakers was to re run the eg calibration for a higher volume an level so i calibrated for a flat 0db rather then - 6 an that fixed the issue now no problem ,

things are a bit quieter at lower volumes but when i crank no distortion.
now this could just be specific to me but it might be worth trying.
 

phil faulds

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Joined
Jul 2, 2018
Messages
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I’ll take a SWAG: the DSP or DAC is taxed, perhaps? Maybe-e-e EQ induced phase distortion? I hope someone chimes in w/a more intelligent answer.
Can you post the respective channel or channels EQ curve or describe the frequency peaks dips(dB and wide/medium/narrow band)
PEQ ON or OFF?

Side note: have yet to pursue the power of REW. I’ve limited 976 PEQ to a small cut ~50hz in the LFE. I’ve applied all other DSP w/3rd party devices.
Tony

Hi Tony
PEQ ON or OFF? Other material doesn't trigger this problem with PEQ on or off. The specific tracks identified distort with PEQ on only.

The equalization is pretty aggressive. I won't post the curves/settings because even if I set all the EQ bands to 0dB, the problem still exists: i.e. it's independent of the actual equalization boost/cut. Just introducing the PEQ into the circuit seems to create it.

In almost all material, it's not noticeable. I suppose what I'll do if I can't find a solution and I find more tracks affected (and I'm not optimistic) is to leave as is for video and work up a 'perfectionist' setup using PC EQ/convolution and turning off the 976 EQ entirely.

Thanks for suggestions
Phil
 

phil faulds

New Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2018
Messages
15
i dont know if this does apply to but for me i had that same issue but for me it was for the reason as as i had on my pc with my balanced dac an amp with my planar headphones using the pulse effects peq eq that was the calibrated eq i had set was not effectively handling material with high energy in the 34-140 Hz range now my speakers are dual 8in bic towers with horn driver an a 98db sensitivity (2.83V/1m) vs the kefs 5.25in coaxial driver an 85db but it might be the same issue

that is the eq'ed db target curve an tolerance leading to distortion my original calibrated setup for my bic's was using the recommended or advised -6db for headroom target from REW WIZARD at least according to all the forums an youtube vids i followed so my solution for both my headphones an speakers was to re run the eg calibration for a higher volume an level so i calibrated for a flat 0db rather then - 6 an that fixed the issue now no problem ,

things are a bit quieter at lower volumes but when i crank no distortion.
now this could just be specific to me but it might be worth trying.
Thanks, Dread
Tried reducing input to -6dB: no difference. So it doesn't seem to be an overload. Note that the same exact problem exists with various headphones.
Thanks anyway
 

gp4Jesus

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Outlaw Audio 976
Main Amp
Several Rotel RB-981s
Additional Amp
2 Rotel RB-980BX
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
Samsung 5900 BDP; Phillips CD changer
Front Speakers
Polk Audio RTi A7
Center Channel Speaker
CSi A6
Surround Speakers
RTi A3
Subwoofers
4 Audio Pro Subs; LFE Sunfire True Signature
Video Display Device
Samsung 60” LED
Remote Control
Harmony
Streaming Equipment
Fire stick
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Many
Satellite System
Dish
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4 EXOs
You & Dread would be MUCH better served taking this to the Outlaw Saloon, posting everything on/in the under the 976.

I’ll still try to help you as this has me intrigued and Kefs were* my first speakers Also I learned something new. I did not know you can turn it (PEQ) on and off w/out boosting or cutting.

1. I gather you’re mostly 2 channel?
2. I’ve read everything at least twice*. Some 3-4 times. Still a bit confused on two or more points.
3. You didn’t say how many channels this affects though it seems just the LR?
4. You didn’t mention similar issues w/Home theater suggesting though very unlikely just that input. Mine is dual purpose too
5. You don’t mention any other makes & models of equipment. Amp(s), signal sources, subwoofer, etc

Other material doesn't trigger this problem with PEQ on or off. The specific tracks identified distort with PEQ on only.
only certain tracks w/the PEQ “ON.” will trigger the problem through speakers AND various headphones*? Do you hear the frequency (EQ) change(s) through the headphones? If yes that strikes me as odd - why EQ headphones?

I can’t confirm my HP jack even works! I have been “speakers only” for at least 10 years.

*I assume you’re using the headphone jack? Sorry for the discussion derailment. Back in the 80s I borrowed a set of electrostatic
headphones w/the option to purchase. They** called them “ear speakers.” To power them I HAD to connect them directly to an amp’s output. They sounded amazing!
*I believe the brand was Stax

The equalization is pretty aggressive.*
that* didn’t surprise me. I’ve posted numerous warnings in the Outlaw Saloon “…cutting is WAY safer than boost. Furthermore, the lower the frequency, the easier even a little boost gets you into trouble over driving amps, blowing tweeters…” under the screen name “975 Destroyer.”
…because even if I set all the EQ bands to 0dB, the problem still exists: i.e. it's independent of the actual equalization boost/cut. Just introducing the PEQ into the circuit seems to create it.
That “problem exists w/PEQ on, no boost or cut” is weird and for Outlaw.This conflicts w/the previous point of “only certain material, w/PEQ on,” suggesting it maybe a DSP specific issue.

In almost all material, it's not noticeable. I suppose what I'll do if I can't find a solution and I find more tracks affected (and I'm not optimistic) is to leave as is for video
I’m sincerely sad for you. I’ve been there though earlier in my AV journey where the power grid or the house’s wiring was SCREWED UP!
…and work up a 'perfectionist' setup using PC EQ/convolution and turning off the 976 EQ entirely.
What’s PC EQ convolution?

I wish you good fortune w/Outlaw and I’ll look for you in the Saloon as 975 Destroyer
 

phil faulds

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You & Dread would be MUCH better served taking this to the Outlaw Saloon, posting everything on/in the under the 976.

I’ll still try to help you as this has me intrigued and Kefs were* my first speakers Also I learned something new. I did not know you can turn it (PEQ) on and off w/out boosting or cutting.

1. I gather you’re mostly 2 channel?
2. I’ve read everything at least twice*. Some 3-4 times. Still a bit confused on two or more points.
3. You didn’t say how many channels this affects though it seems just the LR?
4. You didn’t mention similar issues w/Home theater suggesting though very unlikely just that input. Mine is dual purpose too
5. You don’t mention any other makes & models of equipment. Amp(s), signal sources, subwoofer, etc

only certain tracks w/the PEQ “ON.” will trigger the problem through speakers AND various headphones*? Do you hear the frequency (EQ) change(s) through the headphones? If yes that strikes me as odd - why EQ headphones?

I can’t confirm my HP jack even works! I have been “speakers only” for at least 10 years.

*I assume you’re using the headphone jack? Sorry for the discussion derailment. Back in the 80s I borrowed a set of electrostatic
headphones w/the option to purchase. They** called them “ear speakers.” To power them I HAD to connect them directly to an amp’s output. They sounded amazing!
*I believe the brand was Stax

that* didn’t surprise me. I’ve posted numerous warnings in the Outlaw Saloon “…cutting is WAY safer than boost. Furthermore, the lower the frequency, the easier even a little boost gets you into trouble over driving amps, blowing tweeters…” under the screen name “975 Destroyer.”
That “problem exists w/PEQ on, no boost or cut” is weird and for Outlaw.This conflicts w/the previous point of “only certain material, w/PEQ on,” suggesting it maybe a DSP specific issue.

I’m sincerely sad for you. I’ve been there though earlier in my AV journey where the power grid or the house’s wiring was SCREWED UP!
What’s PC EQ convolution?

I wish you good fortune w/Outlaw and I’ll look for you in the Saloon as 975 Destroyer
No need to answer all of those questions, I can make it very simple after running a test yesterday.
I play a test sine wave between 30 and 100 Hz from REW through the system.
With the EQ off, I hear a sine wave.
With EQ on, there is a buzzing sound on top of the sine wave (on any channel and over the headphone jack). It is not coming from the speaker or amps. I will post a recording directly from the 976 when I get a chance.
This is a simple test that anyone with a PC and a processor can try.
 

gp4Jesus

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Phil would be MUCH better served taking this to the Outlaw Saloon, posting everything on/in the under the 976. You may also buI THINK you MAY have solved your problem as yours seems to be a calibration setting.

I’m terribly sorry your reply twists my senior citizen attention disorder into knots - reading your reply is VERY difficult.

I’m desperate to help you AND understand your solution as I anticipate migrating to analogue EXOs soon for my LRs that are “minus” the DSP in my current EXOs That would demand using the 976 to put the FR finishing touches on the system.

Please don’t take offense that I took the liberty of inserting some punctuation italicizing the parts I don’t understand. Please bear w/me - I’m a little old school.

I dont know if this does apply to but for me i had that same issue. But for me it was for the reason as I had on my pc with my balanced dac an amp with my planar headphones using the pulse effects peq eq
please explain. This Greek to me.
that was the calibrated eq I had set was not effectively handling material with high energy in the 34-140 Hz range. my speakers are dual 8in bic towers with horn driver an a 98db sensitivity (2.83V/1m) vs the kefs 5.25in coaxial driver an 85db but it might be the same issue
can’t say either
that is the eq'ed db target curve an tolerance leading to distortion. My original calibrated setup for my bic's was using the recommended or advised -6db for headroom* target from REW WIZARD
please explain.
* I thoroughly understand headroom. 6dB is very generous, safe, & easy w/98db sensitivity!

at least according to all the forums an youtube vids I followed. So my solution for both my headphones and speakers was to re run the eg calibration for a higher volume an level so I calibrated for a flat 0db rather than - 6 and that fixed the issue now no problem.
”calibration” as in running the 976 calibration*?
Please explain “-6” & “0dB”
Please explain “flat” 0dB
Please explain “…calibrated for a flat 0db rather than - 6”
*though this is my 7th iteration of Home theater - various processors, the last two** Outlaw**, it’s my first w/calibration software.
**these I had the benefit of some 3rd party pro calibration equipment.
things are a bit quieter at lower volumes but when I crank, no distortion*!
now this could just be specific to me but it might be worth trying.
”things are a bit quieter at lower volumes…” what are “things?”
*I very happy for you that reached this point

thanks for putting up w/me this far…

Tony
 
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gp4Jesus

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Outlaw Audio 976
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Several Rotel RB-981s
Additional Amp
2 Rotel RB-980BX
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
Samsung 5900 BDP; Phillips CD changer
Front Speakers
Polk Audio RTi A7
Center Channel Speaker
CSi A6
Surround Speakers
RTi A3
Subwoofers
4 Audio Pro Subs; LFE Sunfire True Signature
Video Display Device
Samsung 60” LED
Remote Control
Harmony
Streaming Equipment
Fire stick
Streaming Subscriptions
Many
Satellite System
Dish
Other Equipment
4 EXOs
Thank you for your patience concerning this problem. Tough to get unbridled time w/the TV as, in spite of some have their own. Next chance my family ALLOWS, I’ll take a trip through the menus.
With EQ on, there is a buzzing sound on top of the sine wave (on any channel and over the headphone jack). It is not coming from the speaker or amps.

This is a simple test that anyone with a PC and a processor can try.
I’m sorry for asking an answered question.

PEQ ON, all settings flat on all channels,
“…there is a buzzing sound on top of the sine wave…”
on all channels & headphones?
 

phil faulds

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Thank you for your patience concerning this problem. Tough to get unbridled time w/the TV as, in spite of some have their own. Next chance my family ALLOWS, I’ll take a trip through the menus.
I’m sorry for asking an answered question.

PEQ ON, all settings flat on all channels,
“…there is a buzzing sound on top of the sine wave…”
on all channels & headphones?

I appreciate your interest and willingness to help. Front, center, left and headphones over the headphone jack all show this noise/distortion. (Not the subs of course, because they don't pass mids/highs, and I haven't bothered running through the surrounds.)

Outlaw has suggested a factory reset (yeah, right) so I will humor them and do that.
Then I'll run the RMA suite on L/R and record test tone output directly from the unit with EQ on and off.
I'll post those here and to the Outlaw group. Someone else should be able to perform at least the simple on/off test with test tone: no equipment required.

I suspect that it's not an issue with my unit and that many AVP/AVRs have this problem, and that it's not detected in most cases. This is because it's not harmonic distortion, and the noise is masked by other mid/hi signal. So it shows up only on sparse, bass-heavy material like the opening of Spanish Harlem, some electronic music (increased fuzz), and on test tones.
 

phil faulds

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Jul 2, 2018
Messages
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Final chapter: intending to do the reset as suggested, I turned on the OSD Menu and got a blank screen.
Guess I'll have to ship it back to Outlaw.
 

Todd Anderson

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Hi all
After having my 976 for almost 2 years, I've noticed an apparent flaw that other owners can possibly verify (or not.)
When I play certain material with high energy in the 60-80 Hz range with PEQ on, I get a buzzing sound on the bass peaks. (Think of a loose driver or something rattling softly on the enclosure.)
It's not my KEF LS50s, as it occurs on various headphones as well. When I listen on headphones, I can cause the buzzing to start and stop by turning EQ on and off.
This is easily replicated by listening to the Chesky Spanish Harlem with Rebecca Pidgeon (24 bit, 96kHz FLAC from HD Tracks)... other bass-heavy material (e.g. Charlie Haden's string bass on Duets) are fine because they seem to miss that particular frequency range (or they have a different harmonic structure? darned if I know.)
So if there are still any 976 owners out there who would care to listen to the first 30 seconds of that track (an audiophile standard that everybody seems to have) with phones or speakers and see if engaging EQ causes a buzzing or soft rattle on peaks, I'd appreciate it if you'd let me know.
This is going to drive me nuts now, and I certainly don't want to replace the 976, as there are no comparable AVRs anywhere near the same price, and I've invested in Hypex power amps that I want to keep.
Thanks
Phil

Hey Phil,

That's an interesting discovery. Definitely sounds like something is happening in the processing end when the filter is engaged.

*edit, I just read the post following the post I quoted*

Such a bummer to discover a flaw in something you've spent money on! Are you going to ask for a replacement? or some sort of compensation?
 

phil faulds

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Hey Phil,

That's an interesting discovery. Definitely sounds like something is happening in the processing end when the filter is engaged.

*edit, I just read the post following the post I quoted*

Such a bummer to discover a flaw in something you've spent money on! Are you going to ask for a replacement? or some sort of compensation?
Hi Todd,
The unit is off-warranty, no longer in stock, no longer in production.
I guess I'm shipping it back at my expense. Whatever the cost, it will certainly be less than any other 4K HDR/Dolby balanced processor on the market today. And best case, they can cure both the OSD and distortion issues.
When it comes to buying DTC merchandise in another country (I'm in Toronto) it's caveat emptor. You save some money on the purchase price, but take the risk of getting hit when something goes wrong. On the whole, I've been pretty lucky.
Phil
 

phil faulds

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Hi all
I am deleting the prior post with measurements completely.
There were a number of issues in my setup causing bad results.
Also, there is now no audible distortions on test tones with EQ engaged, although that one track (Spanish Harlem) still has some audible increase in 'fuzz'... EMI has to be the culprit.
I don't believe my unit is malfunctioning, but is picking up noise from the environment (possibly HDMI)
I will post another set of measurements when I've got them.
I have never questioned Outlaw's published specs, and their support has been unimpeachable. The 976 is (was :() a tremendous bargain. I would send it to Amir to test if I could live without it.
Thanks to all for their help and advice.
Phil
 
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phil faulds

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A few notes on the above tests:

1. My numbers are high, and should be used for comparison purposes only. RCA outputs were used, and they were taken directly in my home setup, not in a clean, low-noise lab setup. Also, I used free software to do the testing, so YMMV. These numbers are not intended to contradict the published specs of the unit.

2. The MOTU AD has rising THD below about 60Hz. This is visible on all REW traces, and with other equipment. Please see the sweep of Parasound P6 tape out below.

3. The hump in THD between 40 and 200 Hz with EQ on is at the frequencies where I hear noise/distortion, but at about 0.02% max, it doesn't to explain it.

4. 2 people (one from Outlaw) have tried the quick test and found no audible difference with EQ engaged with other units.

5. I don't mean to disparage Outlaw in any way. They are a very principled company and have shown great patience with this issue. I'm just trying to avoid spending hundreds of dollars in shipping and testing fees to be told my unit is functioning correctly.

I'm going to retest with balanced outputs and try to record test tones and a few seconds of music.

Regards
Phil

P6 THD and Noise.png
 
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