MQA Reacts to Recent Allegations, Says Youtube Video by GoldenSound Is Fundamentally Flawed

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(May 19, 2021) Last month, YouTuber GoldenSound published a scathing assessment of MQA's legitimacy as a studio-quality lossless codec. His video – I Published Music on TIDAL to Test MQA - MQA Review – has collected more than 219,000 views and become a focal point of discussions on audio forums across the net. The video and its blog-style summary posted on several different forums are presented as measured proof that MQA isn't what it claims to be.

At the risk of oversimplifying the creator's methods and conclusions, GoldenSound essentially placed test files (such as an impulse response, white noise, a -60dB dynamic range test sine, etc.) within a basic acoustic track, encoded it using an automatic MQA encoder, and uploaded it to TIDAL. The intent was to compare a test track to a master file, drawing conclusions through a direct 1-to-1 analysis. Results found significant differences, raising serious questions about MQA's techniques and claims, ultimately concluding that MQA is duping consumers.

Click here to watch GoldenSound's full video.

This isn't the first time MQA has taken heat, and it likely won't be last. Discussions involving the company and its technology are complex, well documented, typically far from flattering, and endlessly controversial. Detractors claim MQA is a solution for a non-problem, lossy in nature, and incapable of definitively "sounding better" than other codecs. Additionally, there's a cloud of suspicion that MQA is a digital rights management-like profiteering platform. On the other hand, supporters claim MQA files sound better, and are unabashedly impressed by the technology's advanced billing – they're willing to hold hands with the tech and take a leap of faith. Of course, both camps likely comprise a sliver of music fans worldwide; most are primarily concerned with portability and convenience.

MQA is unapologetically protective of its intellectual property. For those of you wanting the company to pull back the curtain and reveal all, that's likely never going to happen. IP is IP, and MQA isn't interested in revealing the exact ingredients of its secret sauce. From MQA's point of view, its legitimacy and technical approach has been adequately established through white papers and articles in peer-reviewed journals. And the company is quick to tout its approval by the Recording Industry Association of America, support from major labels and top-flight mastering houses, and creator Bob Stuart's legacy of innovation and industry recognition.

Soon after GoldenSound's video went live, I contacted a colleague at a well-known industry manufacturer, looking to gain some insight from that company's team of product engineers. My hope was to lean on wiser eyes and receive an off-the-record analysis backed by experience in the segment. The manufacturer ultimately responded with a friendly pass – which is completely understandable – but it did lead to a healthy dialog with MQA, which was more than happy to chat. I ultimately asked MQA for a plain-speak evaluation of GoldenSound's conclusions and a detailed explanation of how GoldenSound's test track differs from content like techno and electronica.

MQA supplied its response several weeks ago and is currently planning to release much (if not all) of the response through its own media channel. While on par with its published correspondence with GoldenSound prior to his video's launch, I've decided to summarize the company's stance. What you, the reader, do with this information is entirely up to you. It certainly raises serious questions about GoldenSound's methods and results. However, it doesn't provide any sort of proposal as to how independent analyses of the technology can be performed.

At the most basic level, MQA says GoldenSound's methods were biased and designed to discredit the company and Bob Stuart (MQA's creator), making any conclusions tainted. "We welcome honest and healthy debate," stated MQA. "However, we will not enter into discussion with those shown to be part of the toxic trolling of [our] team and technology."

MQA also says GoldenSound falsely portrayed the company's reaction to his test tracks on TIDAL. GoldenSound claims that MQA deleted his uploaded content from TIDAL; however, MQA says that's not the case. "MQA is neither a music copyright holder nor a distributor," the company explained. "We have no rights to remove content from a service, nor do we have access to the audio. Music is delivered to streaming services by the rights-holders (labels and artists), and the supply chain is either direct or via a distributor or aggregator, in accordance with their agreements."

The company adds that GoldenSound falsely suggests that his content was forcibly published in MQA. "The YouTuber noted that his content was only made available in TIDAL Masters in MQA, suggesting that we had suppressed the 44/16b Redbook version from the HiFi tier. As stated above, MQA has absolutely no role in managing the music within a service."

Beyond those targeted responses, the bulk of MQA's plain speak rebuttal suggests that GoldenSound's tests were "fundamentally flawed," leading to conclusions that are "entirely off the mark." The company confirmed that GoldenSound shared his results prior to publishing his video, but says he failed to accept or act upon its response. "Despite providing him with detailed clarifications to each of his allegations in advance of publishing, he decided to proceed with his inaccurate and defamatory video."

Click here to read MQA's original, full response sent to GoldenSound.

According to MQA, GoldenSound's approach was doomed to fail because it didn't fulfill basic requirements. "The YouTuber ignored our guidance around a central flaw in his test, which is the fact that the encoder he used is designed for musical content and will, by design, fail when attempting to feed it test signals."

GoldenSound's use of non-musical content, says MQA, directly contributed to issues on the output end. "The encoder he had access to runs in an automatic mode and depends on the individual to confirm satisfaction with the resulting audio file. By feeding this particular encoder with a mixture of music and test signals, the encoder detected overloads, technical errors, unusual noise in the recordings, and issued numerous warnings and error messages. The encoder knows when it is being driven outside of its performance envelope, and he disregarded the warnings. Ironically, the only accurate result from his flawed test is a confirmation that our tool behaved precisely as it was designed to when being used incorrectly."

MQA says the automatic encoder objected to 11 of the 14 files GoldenSound submitted, with the remaining three files receiving the following warnings in log returns:
  • Audio invalid ‐ Excessive alias
  • Audio invalid ‐ Input audio is predominantly 16 bits while file container is 24 bits Input audio appears to have been wrapped
  • Input audio contains a band edge
  • Encode may not have worked as desired and may require further QC
MQA says the automatic encoder GoldenSound used is designed to expect a range of peak spectral levels found in music across the spectrum of low to high frequencies. If those parameters aren't satisfied, then output will be tainted. The company says different classes of MQA encoders exist for various applications. "Extensive tools and facilities are available to mastering engineers and labels. Even more facilities to control the debarring and encapsulation processes are used for 'white-glove' projects."

After digesting MQA's plain speak response, I asked the company to explain how GoldenSound's use of test signals differs from techno or electronica (music that can sound like it has test signals). Bob Stuart replied with a five-page technical explanation, beginning with a dissection of GoldenSound's audio file and reiterating that MQA's automatic encoder is designed for music content. Stuart says GoldenSound's file (as posted on his download link) features test signals that were "interleaved" with music segments and "included to 'trick' the encoder into treating it as music." He continued by explaining the file's signal was out of gamut in several places, contained significant "washboard" distortion, and its segment's noise floors alternated between 24, 22, 12, and 6-bit levels.

Stuart says spectral levels of music (including techno, rock, pop, jazz, metal, and classical genres) mimic each other, with the bulk of energy appearing below 12kHz, quickly tapering off after that. In other words, lower frequencies are higher in level than high frequencies, and this holds true independent of genre.

Stuart also asserts that individual music recordings have a unique peak spectrum and noise floor, which can be identified and enclosed within a triangle on a diagram that plots decibels versus linear frequency. MQA uses these principles to identify musical information, encoding it with a very high level of precision. "The benefit of the MQA approach is we can use a novel sampling method with much lower temporal smearing that matches the actual signal character."

GoldenSound's tracks, according to Stuart, failed to approximate real-world music's spectral levels, nor did they have a consistent noise floor. The 44.1 kHz composite file contains "very high levels that, at 22 kHz, exceed music content by 30dB." The 88.2 kHz composite file is more problematic, exceeding musical content by 50dB at 44 kHz and 60dB in the ultrasonics. Stuart continued by saying the bulk of its power resides dangerously above 20 kHz. "Such extreme ultrasonic energy would readily damage tweeters or amplifiers," explained Stuart. "Professional mastering engineers are extremely careful to avoid any high-frequency whistle or interference above 20 kHz."

Long story short, Stuart maintains that GoldenSound's files contained unsafe ultrasonic signals that were identified and flagged with error messages. GoldenSound, he says, ignored these errors, which "simply does not happen in the normal professional supply chain where the MQA encoder analysis is monitored and highly valued [as an] forensic quality assurance check." The result essentially approximates a garbage-in/garbage-out scenario. Stuart says the files could have been encoded as MQA using a 'white glove' encoder.

Stuart's response, of course, includes quite a few complexities that are difficult to generalize. I'm told it will be released on his blog, Bob Talks, soon.

Taking MQA's explanation at face value, many of the issues revealed by GoldenSound result directly from content that failed to satisfy basic principles expected by MQA's automatic encoding technology. Assuming this is true, a scientific approach suggests that GoldenSound's tests need to be repeated with files that fit within MQA's encoding parameters.

Objectively speaking, MQA is currently a market option that consumers can circumvent by sourcing music from alternative services. This doesn't help enthusiasts who want to use TIDAL while avoiding MQA, nor does it satisfy detractors that fear MQA is actively inserting itself as an alternative form of digital rights management. The solution appears to be an open-source or standardized approach, which hardly seems viable given MQA's interest in protecting its proprietary technology. Of course, fans of MQA encoded tracks are free to continue enjoying their music – when it comes to audio, perceptual happiness is the ultimate judge.
 
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Todd Anderson

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What happens if MQA goes out of business, or is no longer supported years down the road?

Then what?
 

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Is there anything MQA brings to Spotify, Apple or Amazon in the HigherRez department?
Yes, but it may not matter to you and that is they get to use the best master tape available to make their MQA master. I am not saying that you can't get a GREAT copy in PCM but that is basically the value proposition of MQA. For example, Warner Brothers took four years to remix their master tapes in MQA and when they dropped BOOM it was like audio treasure to my ears. There were MILLIOINS of tracks dropped. Where else can I get a freshly transcoded streaming version of the master tape right from the warner brothers vaults? If you haven't checked these out yet start with Talking Heads :): https://tidal.com/browse/artist/9367

Back of the envelope calculations put that at 684 tracks a day for one million... You state millionS... Even at that rate what kind of Quality Assurance can be done? I can not believe any "white glove" treatment could have been done...

Sorry, I am not an MQA fan... I'll take my music straight up... If I want to add some "secret sauce" I'll pull out one of a zillion filter algorithms available or write my own... Pacific Title Archives comes to mind... They might have a few master tapes laying around... :cool: Don't know, haven't been in that business for a while...
 
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ddude003

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“Those who say theory and practice are two unrelated realms are fools in one and scoundrels in the other.” - Ayn Rand

:rofl: Me too...
 

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Taste is a personal thing and I have no dog on the race. When I A/B a track by flipping between Tidal Masters and Amazon Ultra HD it is no contest as the MQA track sounds more like being in the studio and Amazon Ultra HD sounds more like being in an echo chamber.

This assessment is not likely to hold using proper methodology (blinded, level-matched). Sighted A/B is too problematic and especially suspect when extremely small audible differences are assigned larger-than-life subjective values.
 

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I have not heard any MQA tracks that I don't like and appreciate the master authentication, going so far as to say that I enjoy MQA. But I don't see the need to pay for licensed hardware to completely "unfold" content, nor the upcharge for said content. FLAC is fine with me and likely to be around long after MQA has gone.

I am also amused by this claim of "music content-only vs. test signals". Umm... WAT?!? And tweeters are killed by high-level HF over 20kHz? Wow...

The only reason I keep Tidal is that I have a catalog compiled over many years and I also enjoy the video content (seemingly the only human on the planet that does enjoy Tidal video). I trialed Qobuz and found it sounded game.

I have an Amazon Prime account and imagine that when they, Apple and Spotify all put their big foot down, only those three will remain in the hi-res gsme.
 

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Some links follow.

John Siau of Benchmark Systems on MQA. Four of the other top pro audio firms that to my knowledge have not supported MQA: Bricasti, Lavry, Weiss, Antelope. (IMO, as a group pros are a lot more skeptical than audiophiles.)

Schiit on MQA

Paul McGowan of PS Audio on MQA

Shane Berry, certified audio engineer, sound designer, composer, and audio consultant on MQA.

The people above are experts. Hans Beekhuyzen is a YouTuber with lots of test equipment on display but apparently not used.

Oh, and the original scientific investigation of MQA was done by "Archimago." An good entry to his work is here. He summarized his findings thus:

- MQA is not "lossless" high-resolution.
- The "deblur" claim appears to be without merit and the company seems to be distancing itself from using that terminology these days.
- The idea of needing to compress hi-res streams down to a 24/44.1 or 24/48 container is moot in the wake of Qobuz and Amazon HD capable of up to 24/192 FLAC.
- There is no rationale for why MQA-CD would sound "better" than regular CD as claimed by MQA. In fact, MQA-CD is anything but hi-res (worse than standard CD resolution) since the system robs bits and hence resolution from 16/44.1.
- When the MQA blue/green light/indicator goes on and the DAC says it's playing 176.4 / 192 / 352.8 / 384kHz, realize that this is not true 4X or 8X resolution. This is all upsampling from lossy reconstructed 88.2/96kHz.
- If we shave off lower bits of audio data, the DAC blue light would still turn on! "Authentication" is at best partial and hence compromised. If they can't guarantee that something is "authentic", then clearly the name "Master Quality Authenticated" is a terrible misnomer.
- The digital filters used are questionable yet mandated for "full" MQA decoding.


He has no horse in the race, but worked pretty hard to see what's under the hood.

I am not saying MQA cannot sound good. It can be pretty easy to make things sound good with DSP. If they sold it as a pleasant codec, so be it. But "Master Quality" is absurd.
 
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AJ Soundfield

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A graphic supplied by Bob Stuart

https://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=19396

AES E-LIBRARY
A Comparison of Clarity in MQA Encoded Files vs. Their Unprocessed State as Performed by Three Groups — Expert Listeners

This paper aims to examine perceived clarity in MQA encoded audio files compared to their unprocessed state (96-kHz 24-bit). Utilizing a methodology initially proposed by the authors in a previous paper, this study aims to investigate any reported differences in clarity for three musical sources of varying genres. A double-blind (listening) test is conducted using three groups—expert listeners, musicians, and casual listeners—in a controlled environment using high-quality loudspeakers and headphones. The researchers were interested in comparing the responses of the three target groups and whether playback systems had any significant effect on listeners’ perception. Data shows that listeners were not able to significantly discriminate between MQA encoded files and the unprocessed original due to several interaction effects.

The authors would like to thank.....Bob Stuart and Meridian for providing the MQA-encoded versions of our audio source materials
 

mechtheist

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At the most basic level, MQA says GoldenSound's methods were biased and designed to discredit the company and Bob Stuart (MQA's creator), making any conclusions tainted. "We welcome honest and healthy debate," stated MQA. "However, we will not enter into discussion with those shown to be part of the toxic trolling of [our] team and technology."

That's essentially an ad hominem attack, if someone is trying to find the flaws in your tech, and find some, they're not discrediting your company, the flaws are. I'll never trust anyone going to such lengths to keep their tech as opaque as possible.

Botnick will know these tracks inside out being The Doors' longtime engineer, so it is of particular interest that he chose to use the MQA master file for all formats: vinyl and CD, as well as streaming on TIDAL.

Bruce Botnick told StereoNET:
I wouldn't doubt it was an emotional experience, that's common when someone is fooling themselves. What you're saying here is that he got better sound going from original master to MQA master to CD? When does an extra step increase quality? He also said :
It’s long been a dream to bring studio quality master recording into the home on hi-res CD. Finally, through the MQA encoding process, we can now listen to the original analog masters as they sounded in the studio without compromise.

Those old analog masters don't have signals that require hi-rez formats to reproduce, the majority of them are already multiple generations of analog recording and that ain't helping the end product.

Morten Lindberg's comments all sound like the typical info-free word salad you get from $1000+/foot power cord salesmen.
 

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https://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=19396

AES E-LIBRARY
A Comparison of Clarity in MQA Encoded Files vs. Their Unprocessed State as Performed by Three Groups — Expert Listeners

This paper aims to examine perceived clarity in MQA encoded audio files compared to their unprocessed state (96-kHz 24-bit). Utilizing a methodology initially proposed by the authors in a previous paper, this study aims to investigate any reported differences in clarity for three musical sources of varying genres. A double-blind (listening) test is conducted using three groups—expert listeners, musicians, and casual listeners—in a controlled environment using high-quality loudspeakers and headphones. The researchers were interested in comparing the responses of the three target groups and whether playback systems had any significant effect on listeners’ perception. Data shows that listeners were not able to significantly discriminate between MQA encoded files and the unprocessed original due to several interaction effects.

The authors would like to thank.....Bob Stuart and Meridian for providing the MQA-encoded versions of our audio source materials
Behind a pay wall? Can you say what the "several interaction effects" are?

I like how they use "expert listeners, musicians, and casual listeners" like they do at Harmon...
 

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My friends notice it too and for them it is a blind test and level matched, only I do the switching and they are clueless to this "audio stuff". With no prompting on my part the exact quote when I played the MQA track was "It sounds like I'm in the studio" FWIW.

Wonder what professional recording studios your friends have been in to draw such a conclusion?
 
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Yes seriously doctor speakers. Your example is of a guy listening in a Mastering Room, where the album was not recorded, and his claim is that it sounds like a live gig, which to be honest is not necessarily a good thing. I stick by my point that very few that make these absurd comparisons, have ever heard music in a studio.
 
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Naw.....LOL "Taste is a personal thing and I have no dog on the race. When I A/B a track by flipping between Tidal Masters and Amazon Ultra HD it is no contest as the MQA track sounds more like being in the studio and Amazon Ultra HD sounds more like being in an echo chamber." Seriously? In my experience free lancing here and in the US, Studio Speakers and Acoustics are remarkably varied. To the extent that I can readily single out one best. The Plant in Sausalito. You may do house calls doctor, but an echo chamber? The differences between HD and Tidal or any other should not cause a change in the amount of perceived reverb. That suggests a playback problem.
 

ddude003

AV Addict
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Messages
1,423
Location
Somewhere Northeast of Kansas City Missouri
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Preamp, Processor or Receiver
PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium TubePre (2 channel+sub)
Main Amp
McIntosh MC152 SS Amp (2 channel)
Additional Amp
Yamaha RX-A850 Pro (the other 5 channels lol)
Computer Audio
MacBook Pro, Custom i7 7700k De-lid 2xAsus1080ti GFX, Audirvana Studio, Hang Loose Convolver, Tone Projects Michelangelo, Pulsar Massive & 8200, LiquidSonics, SoX
DAC
Chord Electronics Ltd. Qutest
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
Sony UBP-X700 /M Ultra HD 4K HDR & PS5
Front Speakers
Martin Logan ElectroMotion ESL
Center Channel Speaker
Martin Logan Motion C2
Surround Speakers
Martin Logan Motion 4
Surround Back Speakers
Martin Logan Motion 4 (yes, another set of these)
Subwoofers
Martin Logan Dynamo 700
Other Speakers or Equipment
Cifte 12AU7 NOS & Genalex Gold Lion Tubes in Pre
Video Display Device
Samsung The Premiere LSP7T UST Laser Projector
Screen
Elite Screens Aeon CLR3 0.8 Gain 103-inch
Remote Control
PrimaLuna, Lumin iApp, Samsung & Yamaha
Streaming Equipment
Netgear Nighthawk S8000 Streaming Switch, Lumin U1 Mini Streamer Transport
Streaming Subscriptions
QoBuz Studio Premier, Amazon Prime & Netflix
Other Equipment
ThrowRug, SaddleBlankets, WideBand & Bass Traps...
All of the recording, mixing, special fx and post production facilities I have been to in So Cali all have their own "house sound" or "look" in the case of sfx and post... Some that have several suites in the same facility have different "sounds" given the various recording, mixing, and monitoring equipment in use at any given time for any given project... Think about it... Why would any recording artist, engineer and producer choose one studio over another... Sound...
 
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