macOS convolver that works with Audiolense

DWPress

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Joined
Jan 18, 2019
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Preamp, Processor or Receiver
Okto Dac8 Pro
Main Amp
Hypex NC252 (4 channel) for tweets & mids
Additional Amp
Icepower 125ASX2 (x2) in BTL for woofers
Other Amp
Crown XLI 800 BTL - 15" sub, 8" powered subs (x2)
Computer Audio
Roon, Tidal
Front Speakers
3 way active XO, 6 cubic foot monsters
Subwoofers
DIY 18"
Other Speakers or Equipment
(x2) Sony powered subs for filling room nodes
I too have been testing the beta version (on Mac). Development is happening, a few bugs to squash but mostly looking really good. I've used it in Mitch's standalone host and also as an AU/VST type plugin.
 

Iansr

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Joined
Mar 14, 2021
Messages
54
Hang Loose Convolver multichannel version 1.0.1.3 is now available for download at https://accuratesound.ca (Mac and Windows), which includes an updated Operations Guide.

Details and video: https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/bits...ches-multichannel-hang-loose-convolver-r1140/

Thanks to the Beta testers here that really helped me out. Much appreciated!
So am I right in understanding that HLC MCH running on a Mac will allow you run AudioLense filters that were generated on a Windows machine ?
 

MIxMonkey

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May 4, 2020
Messages
8
So am I right in understanding that HLC MCH running on a Mac will allow you run AudioLense filters that were generated on a Windows machine ?
They work fine :), though as the filters are being measured/created on one machine and replayed on another you may have to tweak the .cfg file to re-direct the audio to the correct output.
 

Badbruno

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Feb 24, 2020
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Preamp, Processor or Receiver
ExaSound S88
Main Amp
Polaris Audio
Additional Amp
Polaris Audio
Other Amp
Polaris Audio
Computer Audio
Mac mini and IMac 27
DAC
ExaSound S88
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
VPI Prime turntable
Front Speakers
Custom open baffle 3 way
Subwoofers
Velodyne DD12+
Streaming Equipment
Roon
Streaming Subscriptions
Roon Quobuz
If I understand you correctl, yes I’m developing Audiolense filters FIRs for multiple systems …. Saving them in Roon file format and handing them to Hang Loose convolver on my Mac Mini … works awesome !!
Mitch’s program is awesome for gain matching and no delay in switching filters
 

DWPress

Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2019
Messages
10
More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
Okto Dac8 Pro
Main Amp
Hypex NC252 (4 channel) for tweets & mids
Additional Amp
Icepower 125ASX2 (x2) in BTL for woofers
Other Amp
Crown XLI 800 BTL - 15" sub, 8" powered subs (x2)
Computer Audio
Roon, Tidal
Front Speakers
3 way active XO, 6 cubic foot monsters
Subwoofers
DIY 18"
Other Speakers or Equipment
(x2) Sony powered subs for filling room nodes
I've had an issue recently and wondering if anyone else has or perhaps thoughts on a solution. When using Element to route my signal I have audio passing through to my Okto Dac8Pro without connecting any plugins in the chain. It is routing L&R into ALL of my drivers full frequency 20-20K. If I connect the plugins to input I get a echoic affect as the individual driver and speaker delays kick in as well as the lag from DSP filters.

Screenshot 2022-12-30 at 11.28.31 PM.png


I've done everything I could think of, then I wiped the drive in my M1 Mini and did a clean install and upgrade to Ventura 13.1 from Monty which I had been using. I did not do a Time Machine restore, I downloaded all the most current versions of the apps I use and installed them fresh. Very frustrating to go through that effort and end up with the same problem!

Apps I'm using in conjunction:
  • Roon or Apple Music - any source suffers the same problem - I'm not using any of the DSP functionality of Roon.
  • Loopback or Blackhole - I've tried using them individually (one installed and not the other), un-installing ACE - same issue
  • SoundSource - doesn't matter if I use it to direct signal or not - same issue

However, in SoundSource Element shows up as another app that SoundSource can direct which I don't remember being the case before my problem started.

Screenshot 2022-12-30 at 11.54.38 PM.png


If I mute Element in SoundSource I lose my right channel?!?!

Fortunately, I do have a work around. If I use Mitch's HLConvolverHost app along with HLC (which I normally use as an AU plugin within Element anyway for XO duties) I can route music to individual drivers just fine. However SoundSource is limited in its ability to host other plugins and so is HLConvolverHost so I lose out on some of my delays, most noticeably with subs.

Curiously, HLConvolverHost also shows up in SoundSource as a manageable app and if I mute it I once again lose my right channel. Audio Midi Setup also shows up in SoundSource but only on if I do a test signal on channel 1 or 2. If I have HLC muted losing the right channel but then test channel routing in Audio Midi I still get a test signal loud and clear on those muted channels?!

Before I did the nuke and pave procedure on OS Montgomery I tried going back to earlier versions of Element and also the beta. Now that I've done the OS upgrade I can't revert to earlier versions of the Rogue Amoeba software or their ACE driver.

I've been using Macs for 30 years and doing computer audio with active XOs and DSP for 15 of them so pretty confident my Audio Midi setup is in proper shape. I'm at my wits end on this. Any thoughts? I'm inclined to think it's an interaction between SoundSource and Element showing up in the managed apps part of SoundSource but am unclear why it doesn't affect HLConvolverHost the same way.
 
Last edited:

hulkss

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Joined
Feb 12, 2020
Messages
248
I quit using Element on my M1 Mac mini as it has not been updated for a long time now and is no longer being developed. I use REAPER as a multichannel VST host and it works fantastic. I use TouchOSC on an iPad with ReaLearn in REAPER to "remote control" REAPER and my VST plugins in realtime. I am using the HL Convolver VST3 plugin.
 

Ofer

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Mar 15, 2021
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miniDSP 4x10hd
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Emotiva XPR200 midrange amp
Additional Amp
Crest audio 2001A bass amp, Crest audio 8002 sub
Other Amp
Rotel RA930ax twitter amp
Computer Audio
Sony Bravia android TV
DAC
RME UC
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
Marantz original 5E CD
Front Speakers
Andromeda MkII
Subwoofers
18" OEM powered subwoofer, 18" Martycube Dayton A.
Screen
Sony bravia 65XF9005
Streaming Subscriptions
Deezer HiFi
Other Equipment
HP i5 running W10, HLC convolver for Audio Lense filters
Version 1.1.4 of HLC is available with a new high quality filter resampler:
Hi Mitch,
Is this for MacOS only or for Windows too? Do current owners can upgrade or is it upgraded OTA?
 

2234rew

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Nov 24, 2020
Messages
271
Hi Ofer, Mac, Windows and Linux. Free upgrade by manually downloading and installing.
Hi Mitch

It says Ubuntu is coming soon.

Also can I use one purchased license on a few machines? Obviously not at the same time
 

MNSMike

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Feb 24, 2023
Messages
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Hi Mitch,

What is the lowest latency possible with your convolver and 4th order crossovers running at 192khz? Have you been able to achieve sync with YouTube videos?
 

Mitchco

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Joined
Oct 1, 2017
Messages
80
Hi Mitch

It says Ubuntu is coming soon.

Also can I use one purchased license on a few machines? Obviously not at the same time
If you are interested in a Linux build, please send me an email.

The license is good for 6 activation on one or more computers.
 

Mitchco

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Oct 1, 2017
Messages
80
Hi Mitch,

What is the lowest latency possible with your convolver and 4th order crossovers running at 192khz? Have you been able to achieve sync with YouTube videos?
The convolver is 0ms latency. If using a minimum phase digital XO and mininum phase correction, like what is possible in Audiolense, then a 65,536 tap filter will work very well with YouTube or any other app/browser. Here is a Dolby Atmos example to show what is possible. FIR filters designed in Audiolense.
 

MNSMike

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Feb 24, 2023
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Good to hear. Do you have any idea of the latency in MS in that scenario? For example the Trinnov MC-Pro can work at it’s best settings with 15ms latency. What I have in mind is making a headless Trinnov MC-Pro alternative using the Linux version of HLC. But I will need to have the audio pass through it with little enough latency to not lose lip sync with video sources.
 

Mitchco

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Oct 1, 2017
Messages
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@MNSMike Julian's overall delay from the Atmos link I posted above is 4ms for his setup. In your case, the only way to find out is to prototype and measure as there are many variables in the equation.
 

MNSMike

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Feb 24, 2023
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Sounds good. We will start with the Windows version. Once all figured out I’ll hit you up on the Linux version. We have technology to clock sync linux PC’s with the entire audio chain. So the only thing that matters is latency. Clock drift over time won’t be an issue.
 

Ofer

Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2021
Messages
254
More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
miniDSP 4x10hd
Main Amp
Emotiva XPR200 midrange amp
Additional Amp
Crest audio 2001A bass amp, Crest audio 8002 sub
Other Amp
Rotel RA930ax twitter amp
Computer Audio
Sony Bravia android TV
DAC
RME UC
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
Marantz original 5E CD
Front Speakers
Andromeda MkII
Subwoofers
18" OEM powered subwoofer, 18" Martycube Dayton A.
Screen
Sony bravia 65XF9005
Streaming Subscriptions
Deezer HiFi
Other Equipment
HP i5 running W10, HLC convolver for Audio Lense filters
So kind of 'stating the obvious' question. After installing the new version three new dials appeared, see below. At their default position is it like before the upgrade? i.e. like not having them at all?

1677432020490.png

Thanks.
 

2234rew

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Thread Starter
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Nov 24, 2020
Messages
271
Hi @Mitchco

Do you have plans to develop a virtual soundcard driver for HLC ?

So that Windows or Mac can see a HLC driver, as ASIO, WASAPI, Core Audio?

This would really be the ultimate all in one package

using vst3 host plugins, host programs, VB cable etc is such a pain

I hope it is on your roadmap

Especially useful for convolving system wide audio in the most neat / least clunky way possible

This is my thread where I ahowed a method for MacOs before HLC

But it is really clunky and turns off a lot of friends that want to get into room correction for Netflix, Youtube, all system wide sources. Not just the usual music software suspects
 

Mitchco

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Joined
Oct 1, 2017
Messages
80
Hi @2234rew

Yes, partially... Up next is a Windows virtual ASIO driver that I am working on. I don't have a firm ETA yet, but likely in a month or two.

As far as WDM on Windows, one really needs a kernel mode driver. Unfortunately, Microsoft (and Apple) have made it virtually impossible to develop unless one is willing to go through their driver certification processes which is both time consuming and expensive. Aside from the fact that low level audio drivers are marvelous fun to develop.

I agree, VB- Virtual Audio Cable is not the easiest to get working and made more complicated that the developer has exposed buffers that need to be tuned, and a resampler in the signal path. I have evaluated several WDM drivers for Windows and can highly recommend: https://www.nerds.de/en/loopbeaudio.html It is a proper kernel mode driver. No buffers to tune, supports up to 24 channels, is low latency, and handy system tray ensures I/O sample rates and bit depths are matched, and already certified by MSFT. While it cost's about $20, it is an excellent low touch and reliable solution.

On the Mac, BlackHole is the defacto standard loopback driver. Devin has done a great job. It is 0ms latency driver and handles as many channels as one wants. I find it very stable and generally with no issues.

Both LoopBeAudio and BlackHole are typically install and forget. While I agree it can be a bit clunky, the cost to develop and certify kernel mode drivers for both platforms is currently prohibitive.
 
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