DTS Neural Surround UpMix plug-in with Audiolense

[2234rew]

Hi @hulkss

I remember you wrote you use this stereo-to-7.1 up-mixer

On macOS, does it work in the app 'Element' ? via VST3?

If you have Element, could you show a screenshot of the path for how the DTS plugin could work, with a convolver like X-MCFX ?

I already use Element and X-MCFX (I first wrote about it on this forum), but just for stereo speaker system (2.2 system with DSP crossovers)

Thanks!

 

[hulkss]

Lately, I'm using NUGEN Audio Halo Upmix on my M1 Mac mini.

Last time I tried, I could not get it to load in Element, however, it works fine in Plogue Bidule.
I'm running the X-MCFX Convolver in Element as it would not run in Bidule.
I'm routing audio with Rogue Amoeba Loopback.

 

[2234rew]

Lately, I'm using NUGEN Audio Halo Upmix on my M1 Mac mini.

Last time I tried, I could not get it to load in Element, however, it works fine in Plogue Bidule.
I'm running the X-MCFX Convolver in Element as it would not run in Bidule.
I'm routing audio with Rogue Amoeba Loopback.

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Very nice!

I guess I can answer my own question now.

Everything working nicely in Element for me. Only testing stereo to LCR at the moment.

Phantom center is nice but nothing beats a true centre !

And DTS plugin allows you to mix how much trues vs center, really easily , on the fly

 

[hulkss]

I don't understand your output connection to the UpMix block?

 

[2234rew]

I don't understand your output connection to the UpMix block?

Updated screenshot above to show the DTS plugin.

Ha yeh, I could make it straight forward for the DTS block output but then the X-MCFX block output would be mangled

One of them has to be mangled in the end - doesn't matter which.

I'm using an AVR as both MC DAC and amp - AVR is connected to Mac Mini over HDMI.

So I have 8 channels to play with but the channel mapping with HDMI is a pain but I understand it well now.

Each AVR speaker output goes to individual driver. AL doing TTD Correction + driver time alignment

AVR is set to 'Pure Direct' to by-pass all internal DSP. Denon AVR volume control is done in analogue domain but still have a remote control to adjust volume from the couch.

I'm using the AVR center channel (Ch3) for single subwoofer output - the sub has speaker level input. I will eventually add a 2nd sub and use RCA cable to each sub from the AVR.

Everything works brilliant and it's a really affordable way to have 8 channels DAC and amp in one box with remote volume control (analogue domain).

 

[2234rew]

And for some reason the DTS block 'right' channel output isn't output #2 - I learnt the hard way today that it's output #7

I don't know what convention that follows but I figured it out

Verified to make sure this is right, using REW

 

[hulkss]

You are only using two channels of the upmix output?

DTS upmix has normal channel routing on my system.
You can verify the outputs by clicking an "S" block (above the output meters) to solo one channel at a time.

 

[2234rew]

You are only using two channels of the upmix output?

DTS upmix has normal channel routing on my system.
You can verify the outputs by clicking an "S" block (above the output meters) to solo one channel at a time.

Yes this was just a very quick test to see if it can all work in Element for me. I literally just set it up 30 mins before making my post.

This is not final config.

I did verify using S block (also verified with REW measurements) but still right channel corresponds to Ch7 on the DTS block for me.

I will play more but I can't think of what else could be causing this.

 

[hulkss]

It's possible I was having a similar problem and did not verify the channels on my Mac Mini. I switched to Halo UpMix because DTS was sounding bad on my Mac (was OK on Windows 10).

 

[2234rew]

sounding bad on my Mac (was OK on Windows 10

Win10 and macOS do map surrounds differently but LCR and LFE are same, so no idea why my right channel has to be on Ch7 output

My cheat sheet

 

[2234rew]

I don't understand your output connection to the UpMix block?

I should also add, I could also do the ugly wiring/mapping inside the matrix I create in Audicty for X-MCFX .

Then the block diagram wiring in Element would look really pretty in Element, with straight parallel lines.

So there's 3 different places the ugly wiring (mapping) could be done but end result is the same , needs to be done somewhere (in my case)

 

[hulkss]

I verified the output channels from DTS Neural Upmix. Sure enough, it was sounding bad because I had the channels routed improperly. They are out of order in Element as you found.

DTS upmix is working fine for me now that I routed the upmix channels correctly.

Always trace the signals paths to verify. Thanks for pointing this out.

 

[juicehifi]

It is great to see you guys help each other solve issues

 

[2234rew]

I verified the output channels from DTS Neural Upmix. Sure enough, it was sounding bad because I had the channels routed improperly. They are out of order in Element as you found.

DTS upmix is working fine for me now that I routed the upmix channels correctly.

Always trace the signals paths to verify. Thanks for pointing this out.

No worries. Always good when someone can verify there is some method to my madness!

Which do you prefer , DTS vs NUGEN Halo Upmix ?

For someone else reading this, it's pretty clear from just my one screenshot above what DTS allows - adjusting depth and width 'on the fly'.

Does NUGEN Halo UpMix offer anything else or much the same (just different algorithm) ?

I'm using DTS mainly for TV/movies, not really for music. Just to have a better centre channel for talking/voice. Although it can be fun to play armchair surround sound mixing engineer, with music.

 

[hulkss]

I prefer DTS. Halo UpMix works well too and has more adjustability.

A lot of concert recordings have lame 5.1 audio and it is better to upmix the stereo track.