Baby steps with AL

Ofer

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Marantz original 5E CD
Hi everyone,

I have finally bought AL XO. My system in tri-amped with sub. The audio interface is RME Fire Face 400 connected via fire-wire to W10 PC. I haven't yet connected it all to my main system as I find the whole routing issue intimidating. The intended setup is something like what the use @aps has. See diagram below. The idea being to use the TV as my main source and thus have volume control with the miniDSP HDx10 as digital preamp connected by spdif to the RME. So far I have installed Virtual Asio Bridge as both recording and playback device on W10 to ensure that all the signals are converted to ASIO and can be used by the convolver. Checking speaker connection in AL resulted in the correct channels in RME TotalMix. The thing that I am very not sure about is how to make sure the signal from the spdif goes through the convolver and then routed to the different channels? I have put protective capacitors on tweeters and mids but still want to make sure that no base accidently reaches them. Any help with these questions will be greatly appreciated.





Signal path
 

Omid

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You diagram seems correct. I guess the risk is accidently miss-wiring, or programming AL the wrong way (unknown unknowns if you will). The safest would be to connect 3 crappy speakers to the 3 outputs, and listens to see if you get the range you expected. Or better, connect 3 XLR cables from the output on your DAC to the input on your DAC and measure the range on each input with REW. You'll know exactly the frequency sweep you're getting on each output.
 

juicehifi

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I believe the only way is to test it. And yes, the diagram looks OK.
 

Ofer

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Marantz original 5E CD
Hi Bernt,
I will try to test it.
As the system is not connected I cannot measure the individual drivers as they are configured in AL and thus cannot create a correction file to load the convolver. My question is: In this case as long as AL is open on the computer does it act as a convolver? Does all the ASIO audio signal go through AL and is split according to the speaker configuration? If so then it is possible to test both the computer audio and the external spdif audio that is fed to the RME.
 

Ofer

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Marantz original 5E CD
You diagram seems correct. I guess the risk is accidently miss-wiring, or programming AL the wrong way (unknown unknowns if you will). The safest would be to connect 3 crappy speakers to the 3 outputs, and listens to see if you get the range you expected. Or better, connect 3 XLR cables from the output on your DAC to the input on your DAC and measure the range on each input with REW. You'll know exactly the frequency sweep you're getting on each output.
So that was a good idea. As stated I can't create a correction filter to load the convolver. I was hoping that as AL is open it will filter the crossover according to the speaker setup. Well it didn't, or something I probably did wrong.
I have created a sound card cal file in REW. Then I chose one input and tried a full frequency sweep with the different outputs. They all gave a nice flat FR from 10hz-20khz. No difference between the outputs. :rolleyesno:
Edit: AL comes with some sample measurments. One is on 3way system. I used this measurment to create a correction file. It worked and created a cfg. and wav. file. But for some reason the AL convolver won't load them. it only excepts .alc correction file. What am I missing here?...
 
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Ofer

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OK thanks to @Omid I have managed to change the correction file to .alc and load it to the convolver. But still no luck. Sound is not played through the convolver no matter what I try. In fact the convolver is no where on the windows sound settings. I use Asio Bridge. I have tried to configure AB to play through the convolver but it is not listed. Also I get this red notice saying "audiolense_host silent output/no valid license" does this mean that the trial version doesn't really work? This is some steep learning curve....
Problems with convolver
 

juicehifi

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The convolver comes in two versions. The one depicted above is the stand-alone, which is only usable for external sources. You seem to have chosen AsioBridge as the default sound card on your PC. In addition you need to choose Audiolense as the endpoint in AsioBridge. And then you have to enable stereo output from Asio Bridge (if you are aiming for rendering stereo sources here).
 

Ofer

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Thanks. What does it mean "choose Audiolense as the endpoint in AsioBridge"? How is that done? If by enable stereo output from AB you mean the screenshot below then it's done. I guess. What significance if any does the "Process audiolense_host silent output/no valid license" mean?
Stereo in AB
 

Ofer

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OK. nothing is plug and play here it seems. Asio bridge was to be downloaded separately from the VB cable that was bought. Go figure. Anyway it seems to be configured but still no volume control in the convolver so I am not sure it is working.
Asio bridge working
 

Ofer

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Finally got this to work :woohoo:
For some reason every time I change volume on the convolver I need to turn asio off and on in the asio bridge. Apart from that I even managed to measure the sound card from output to input. See below. I expected straight lines as there are no speakers involved. Guess I should have calibrated the soundcard.
AL sample file only input outpun RME no speakers
uld have calibrated the soundcard. Now to gather the courage and connect to the main system.
 

Ofer

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The next challenge is to have the spdif through the convolver. @juicehifi says that standalone convolver is supposed to convolve the external spdif. @aps managed to do it with a similar RME card. Unfortunately it doesn't work in my hands. The spdif signal is routed to two outputs not going through the convolver (no volume control in the convolver). See screenshot below. So if anyone has an idea as to how to have the spdif go through the convolver first I would love to hear. As this is the last hurdle before connecting everything to the main system.
Convolver working with PC audio and Asio bridge:
Convolver working on PC playback

Convolver not in the picture when playing external spdif
Convolver not working with spdif
 

juicehifi

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1 you need to start the convolver msnually.
2 You shouldn’t route inputs to outputs in the sound card mixer. Al convolver will pick up the incoming signal, convolve and send it back through the sound card’s outputs.
 
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Ofer

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Thanks. What do you mean start it manually?
I can't find how to manually close it. How is the convolver named in the task manager?
Another thing. Every time I move the volume slider on the convolver it is disconnected from the Asio bridge and I need to press "asio off" and then "asio on" on the asio bridge interface.
 
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juicehifi

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Start it from the app menu in Windows. It sits there together with other programs.
 

Ofer

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I couldn't close the previous session so for a moment I had 2. But I was left in a few seconds with one but it is not picking up the signal.
Convolver 1
Spdif 1
 

juicehifi

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When you run AsioBridge, it will keep the convolver "busy" even though it is idling. And the convolver will keep the sound card busy.

The convolver used by AsioBridge is the virtual sound card. It's the one without the start/stop button. It will close down when you close down AsioBridge.

For correcting external sources you need to keep AsioBridge closed and the stand-alone convolver open.
 
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Ofer

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So it is either external sources, Asio Bridge closed or internal sources, Asio Bridge open? it can't be both ready to play? is it enough to just disengage Asio Bridge by pressing the Asio on/off button or is is necessary to completely shut is down?
Another thing. For internal playing Hi-Fi cable is configured as the main playback and recording module. Should that be kept/changed? maybe to vb-cable?
 
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Ofer

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And to leave Hi-Fi cable as the default player and recording module?
 
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Ofer

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So I have tried with the default player and recording being Hi-Fi cable and also with the VB-cable being default. Still the convolver doesn't pickup the sound from the spdif. I played from a CD player so I changed the bitrate to 44.1/16 in both but it didn't make a difference. Tried to restart totalmix and convolver. Still can't play from outside source. :rolleyesno:
Asio bridge closed still no convolution
 
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juicehifi

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you are heading in the right direction.

What does the red red text in the convolver say? There’s an error message there.
 

Ofer

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you are heading in the right direction.

What does the red red text in the convolver say? There’s an error message there.
Sure doesn't feel like it. it says "Process audiolense_host. Silent output/no valid license."
When in this mode it occasionally crashes. With the asio bridge is was more stable.
 

juicehifi

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It seems like we need to get you a new license key then. Generate a hwid from the stand-alone in the same contrition as in the picture
 

Ofer

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Generate what? and how?
 
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