Advice Needed

[leroi710]

Hi All,


I’m new to all of this and am looking for some advice and help. I’m going to bore you all with loads of detail but I want to make sure I provide you all with enough information so you can educate me and provide me with some advice.

My father in law recently gave me his old A/V Receiver (Panasonic SA-XR57 details are below), along with a DVD Home Theater 5.1 speaker system (Panasonic SC-PT480 , details are below). I’m not actually currently using the DVD player, I have the five speakers (L/R, Center, Surrounds) connected directly to the A/V Receiver. The L/R and Surrounds are mounted on Sanus speaker stands. The speakers came with 8.2mm pin-pitch round speaker terminals but I removed those wires and replaced them with standard AmazonBasics 16-Gauge Speaker Wire. I’m not using the sub because it is a sealed box with only the wire with 8.2mm terminals coming out a small hole in the back and the receiver sub out is LFE so I don’t believe I can connect the Sub directly to the receiver (let me know if I am wrong about that and how to connect it).

I have a TCL S405 tv and I have an optical cable running from the TV to the receiver so all sound from the TV goes through the receiver to the speakers. I have no cable, everything I watch is streaming from the Roku system built into the TV. All I’m doing is streaming via different apps, mostly shows on hulu, amazon prime, and Netflix, docs, nature shows like blue plant etc, and sports, with an occasional movie every now and then. I have a different blueray player that I have connected via HDMI directly to the TV and then again the audio is going out through the optical to the A/V receiver to the speakers to play the sound. Since this is an older receiver I found this is the best way to pass the sound without running lower quality composite connections but again please let me know if I don’t have this set up correctly or if you have some recommendations. There is no music being played through the system, it is strictly streaming and occasional dvds.

This system is set up in my living room, there are tile floors, it connects to the kitchen and the upstairs, the seating area is set up to my wife’s liking and doesn’t make for ideal speaker placement (the couch is against a wall off to the far right of the tv with a single chair close to the center of the room), the chair is about 8 feet from the tv with the couch about 10 feet , I have an almost 5 year old running around and most of the movies I do watch are animated kids movies. I don’t play any video games and the last system I owned was a PS2 and that was sold a long time ago.

Nothing about what I have going on is ideal for a home theater and I’m not looking for perfect. I was given this set up and I’m enjoying the improved sound over the standard TV speakers. Having this set up as sparked me into doing a lot of research on the subject of Home Theaters/Speakers and, as I think you can tell, when I get into something I’m a bit meticulous. Now that I have everything set up I’ve noticed that the speakers, while they are much improved over the standard TV speakers, are fairly weak and thin sounding (not that this observation is going to shock you, especially when you look at the specs of the speakers and the fact I’m running it as a 5.0 system). When strings/horns/orchestra scores from play, especially through all five speakers, it sounds good but since I don't have a sub set up and the speakers only have a frequency response of at best 90Hz to 25kHz there are clearly limitations to the sounds being produced. I do have an additional Center Channel Yamaha NS-C90 but I have not been able to find the frequency response or other specs for this speaker and I don't have the manual.

So to get to the whole point of all of this, I’m looking to improve the L/R and Center speakers right now and in the future I plan to pick up a Dayton Sub to add a decent cheap sub to the set up. I’m not looking for great, I just want to improve on the speakers I currently have. I’m not going to spend the money to get a new receiver right now so what I really want is to make sure that any speakers I get work with the current receiver I have. I’ve basically been researching the best budget speakers and I’ve landed on the same standard options that have been discussed to death and I’m sure you all are sick of talking about. I’m looking to spend $100-$150 total for the three speakers and I know that these speakers would not be what you would recommend but I don’t have much spare money and the goal is just to improve what I have. What I’m really looking for here is your expertise on whether these are going to work the receiver I have right now. I’m particularly not sure about Impedance and power ratings especially so I want to make that everything is compatible. I also want to make sure that what I get will work well together.

So with all of that said, here is what I am currently looking at:

A pair of Dayton Audio B452 AIR for R/L (Power ratings of 30 watts RMS/60 watts max and Impedance of 6 ohm) and a Dayton Audio C452-AIR (60 watts RMS, 120 watts max and impedance of 6 ohm). With the frequency response of 85-20,000 Hz for both speakers I figure this will help fill out the sound compared to what I have now and these are generally considered decent budget speakers. I like the smaller speakers so they fit with my Sanus speaker stands and I don’t need to purchase new stands again to go with a bigger speaker. I actually haven’t seen much talk about the B452 AIR, everything I’ve seen is generally about the B652 AIR, so if you have any experience with these I’d like to hear your thoughts on them. Again, keep in mind I’m just looking to improve the tiny speakers I have so I’m not comparing them to actual good speakers.

Another thought I had was the Dayton Audio B452 AIR as the L/R with a Dayton Audio MK442 as a center but I don’t know if that will work. The MK442 has an impedance 4 ohm to with a power of 80 watts RMS/160 watts max and frequency 60-20,000 Hz so it is not exactly in sync with the specs of the B452 AIR for R/L (Power ratings of 30 watts RMS/60 watts max and Impedance of 6 ohm and frequency response of 85-20,000 Hz. My thought is with the Center capable of the lower frequency it would help fill out the low end while I wait to get a sub.

Another option would be the Dayton Audio MK402 with the MK442. These are made to work together and have the same impedence and frequency response while MK402 has a power rating of 40W RMS/80W max. I haven’t seen a whole lot of people review the MK402 so I’d like thoughts on people who have had these as well.

The final budget option is the normal recommendation but is a little more that I’d like to spend, the Micca MB42X and Micca MB42X-C.

So, would all of these work with my receiver? Would they improve my current sound? Would you recommend me pulling the trigger on any of these options? Let me know if I have anything wrong or if any of my logic here is incorrect.

Below is a link to the A/V Receiver Panasonic SA-XR57 manual and the main features of the receiver.

Features

Processing Modes: Dolby: Digital 5.1, EX, Pro Logic IIx , DTS, ES, 96/24, Neo:6

THX Certification: No

Audio D/A Converter: N/A

Number of Amp Channels: 7

Power Rating (watts per channel): 100, into 6 ohms

Frequency Response: –/+3 dB from 4 Hz to 88 kHz

Connections

Inputs:

Video: HDMI (1), component video (2), S-video (3), composite video (4)

Audio: Coaxial digital (2), optical digital (2), six-channel analog (1), stereo analog (4)

Outputs:

Video: HDMI (1), component video (1), S-video (1), composite video (1)

Audio: Subwoofer preout (1)

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/747533/Panasonic-Sa-Xr57.html#manual


Below are the specs of the current speakers I’m using with a link to the manual

SPEAKER SYSTEM:

Front L/R: 1-way 1-speaker, Bass-reflex, 2-1/2" Full Range Cone

Impedance: 3ohm

Frequency Response: 105Hz to 25kHz

Sensitivity: 78db 1W/1m

Weight: 0.88 lbs

Dimensions (H x W x D) 4-11/16" x 3-5/32" x 2-11/16"

Center: 1-way 1-speaker, Bass-reflex, 2-1/2" Full Range Cone

Impedance: 6ohm

Frequency Response: 90Hz to 25kHz

Sensitivity: 79db 1W/1m

Weight: 1.32 lbs

Dimensions (H x W x D):3-11/32" x 5-23/32" x 2-13/16"

Surround: 1-way 1-speaker, Bass-reflex, 2-1/2" Full Range Cone

Impedance: 3ohm

Frequency Response: 105Hz to 25kHz

Sensitivity: 78db 1W/1m

Weight:0.88

Dimensions: 4-11/16" x 3-5/32" x 2-11/16"

Subwoofer: Bass-Reflex, 6-1/2" Woofer

Dimensions: 11-13/32" x 5-23/32" x 10-5/32"

Weight: 6.0

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/247152/Panasonic-Sc-Pt480.html

 

[Tony V.]

First of all welcome aboard AV NIRVANA!

So from what I can tell that DVD player is actually the unit that came with the speakers you are currently using and the Panasonic receiver is something separate bout later.

Those speakers are going to be quite hard on that receiver due to the fact (as usual) they were built specifically for use with the DVDplayer all in one unit. 3ohms is really had on most amps and if run hard can overheat that Panasonic receiver. the sub was also powered directly from the DVD player unit and cant be used as you said with the receiver.

Now with your want for better sound you have listed some good options and for your budget are good choices. I would also look at the used speaker option as there are lots of good choices available to you in that area. for example the Pioneer Andrew Jones speakers (come as a set of 4) used would fit your $150 price range.

 

[leroi710]

Hi Tony,

Thanks for welcoming me and I appreciate the advise! You are correct that the DVD player is actually the unit that came with the speakers I am currently using. They were originally a dvd/ht system bundled together. I believe the Panasonic receiver was something purchased separate but later but this is all hand me down equipment so I don't know for sure.

Do you see any issues with any of the Dayton speakers working with the current receiver I have? Two of the better speakers have an impedance of 4 ohm, is that going to be a problem? I know you said my current 3 ohms speakers will be tough on my receiver so I wasn't sure if the 4 ohm speakers would be a problem.

 

[Tony V.]

The Daytons might still be a bit hard on the receiver if pushed hard. You really want to stay above 6ohms if possible. the lower the number the harder to drive (think of 0ohms being a dead short)

I would love to be able to convince you to up your budget but I get that money is tight. If you were to spend $200 you could get yourself into this 5.1 speaker setup
https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=120&cp_id=12012&cs_id=1090601&p_id=33831&seq=1&format=2

 

[Tony V.]

Here are another option, buy yourself these now and for the time being use your yamaha center channel
https://emotiva.com/collections/loudspeakers/products/airmotiv-e1

 

[leroi710]

Hi Tony,

One option I had on my list for my L/R that I did not mention was actually the Monoprice Select 4-Inch 2-Way Bookshelf Speakers Product # 13778. Do you have any thoughts on these? I actually have a bday coming up and have a sub on the old bday list so I'm trying to focus on just cheap improvements on my current hand me downs. That is why I'm looking at the L/R center at the moment. If you think the Monoprice would be a good option for me I'll look into them more closely.

 

[leroi710]

Also, I am considering keeping the Yamaha center and just upgrading the L/R for the time being. I appreciate you taking the time to give me some options and information.

 

[Tony V.]

I know your on a budget but in my opinion you should get something a little bit bigger as you are going to really struggle with getting any decent lows. These are the same price and dig a little deeper.
https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=109&cp_id=10904&cs_id=1090407&p_id=24739&seq=1&format=2

 

[Tony V.]

And here is some Sony speakers that would look a little nicer and sound decent
https://www.amazon.com/Sony-SSCS5-3...&qid=1549056562&sr=8-22&keywords=andrew+jones

 

[leroi710]

Thanks again, the MP-65RT I had also looked at. To further limit myself, before I started researching all of this research I purchased some Sanus speaker stands that state they are only for up to 4 lbs (although I bet they could hold a little more but just not be covered by any sort of warranty/terms of service etc). Since I just bought them a month ago, I want to try to get some smaller speakers that will work with them. I would ideally then move those L/R to surrounds and get new appropriate stands along with bigger better front L/R's in the future.

Look, I know I'm looking for a unicorn here and a crappy one at that. I just want the best crappy unicorn I can find that works with the crappy AVR I currently have. At the very least you've helped educate me on the impedance needs and provided me with some good options and information so I can find something that hopefully works for me. I appreciate you taking the time to humor me and educate me!

 

[Tony V.]

Its no problem at all. let us know what you settle on and please stick around. We have an amazing group here and you will learn so much along the way.
I am certain that other will chime in later on today as most of us work during the day. I also highly recommend looking at your local Craigslist or other used market for speakers. You would be amazed what you can get for a little over $100 you could very likely find some tower speaker in that range that would blow the doors off what new speakers in that range would cost.

Feel free to post the links to what you might find and we can help you with a choice.

 

[Grayson Dere]

Welcome to the forums leroi710,

The second hand market as Tony recommended is a great way to strike up good deals on speakers.
I've used eBay in the past with good results; just make sure you ask the seller with any questions you may have.

You can also check:

https://www.audiogon.com
https://www.usaudiomart.com

 

[tesseract]

Welcome to AV NIRVANA, leroi710. Great first post, with some solid advice given. Hope this helps make you bday a good one!

 

[JStewart]

ther option would be the Dayton Audio MK402 with the MK442. These are made to work together and have the same impedence and frequency response while MK402 has a power rating of 40W RMS/80W max. I haven’t seen a whole lot of people review the MK402 so I’d like thoughts on people who have had these as well.

Welcome to the forum leroi710!
Have you seen this review of the MK402 and MK442? https://www.audioholics.com/bookshelf-speaker-reviews/mk402-and-mk442-review
Pretty impressive for the price, i.e. value
The question of it being a 4ohm speaker is answered by the measurements in the review.
In case you're unfamiliar, the reviewers are data oriented straight shooters.

 

[leroi710]

Thanks @JStewart! I have see that reveiw and there is a glowing review on CNET too. I just expected with those glowing reviews to see more talk and more people raving about them and there just didn't seem to be much chatter about them out there outside of a few really good reviews. I guess I just was looking for confirmation that these were actually good speakers and people were happy with them. There is also another glowing review of them from the AVS forum.

Can you explain what you mean by the 4ohm speaker is answered by the measurements in the review? I just want to make sure it will work with my AVR. The current tiny 3ohm speakers I have had running for the last three weeks or so work with my AVR but Tony did say he is worried it may overwork my AVR. With the 402s being just 4ohm I am a little worried and I didn't see where in the review it cleared up the issue. I leaning towards picking up just the 402 speakers for now and adding more later. I figure at worst these can become my surrounds and I can get bigger better fronts and appropriate stands for them in the future. There is even an open boxed of these for $55 on parts express right now (or at least there were as of last night).

Also below I attached a picture of my living room with my current set up to give everyone an idea of the space and what I am currently working with (ignore the mess of my daughters things everywhere)

Apologies if it is no no to link to a different forum but I was happy to find another good review.
https://www.avsforum.com/dayton-audio-mk-series-speakers-review/

 

[leroi710]

Welcome to AV NIRVANA, leroi710. Great first post, with some solid advice given. Hope this helps make you bday a good one!

Thanks tesseract! I appreciate it!

 

[leroi710]

Welcome to the forums leroi710,

The second hand market as Tony recommended is a great way to strike up good deals on speakers.
I've used eBay in the past with good results; just make sure you ask the seller with any questions you may have.

You can also check:

https://www.audiogon.com
https://www.usaudiomart.com

Thanks Grayson!

 

[JStewart]

Can you explain what you mean by the 4ohm speaker is answered by the measurements in the review? I just want to make sure it will work with my AVR.

Sure. In the paragraph right below the phase/impedance graphs the reviewer concludes based on the measurements they will be fine with inexpensive AVRs with one exception he lists for the 442. A sub will always be the better option, but they should work fine with your AVR at moderate volumes.
You kinda have to figure Dayton would make them to behave with this gear too.
I see they're available from Amazon which is an easy return if you got 'em and didn't like 'em.

I just expected with those glowing reviews to see more talk and more people raving about them and there just didn't seem to be much chatter about them out there outside of a few really good reviews.

I don't think I'd be too concerned about that so long as there aren't a bunch of bad reviews which I doubt there are.