Vicoustic Bass Traps not doing anything

[CemArapkirlioglu]

Hi,

I have just moved into a new place and purchased Vicoustic super bass extreme bass traps. 6 of them 3 on each side.

The room is 3 x 3.6 x 2.4 meters. Desk is on the 3 meter wall.

Listening position is at 38% from the front wall. Amphion One15 speakers equilateral triangle to the mixing spot at 1.05 meters. Also 4 absorbers in the room 1 on each side of first and second reflection points and 2 on the back wall side by side.

I am waiting for a new desk so things are a bit temporary. But from my measurements I think the bass traps are not doing anything at all.

Would you take a look at my REW file attached?

There are 3 different measurements. (6 with Left and Right)

1 - All panels in the room
2 - No panels in the room
3 - Just bass traps in the room.

Using ISEMCON EMX-7150 measurement mic with calibration file facing the speakers.

Is it just me or are the bass traps I bought just useless?

 

[Bruce Black]

Based on your REW data, I'm seeing some drop around 100 Hz., but nothing of any value. It also looks like you could use some help at 50Hz., but the devices do nothing. You might look into using Helmhlotz resonators tuned to those frequencies. These are easy to build, if you have basic wood working tools and skills. You could also use some absorption at the higher frequencies, and definitely some diffusion. Lastly, that dip in the LF at around 85 Hz. is likely caused by vibrating wall panels, if they're drywall.

 

[Ian Eales]

I always laugh at what are sold for 'bass traps'
Our control room had floor to 15' ceiling x 4 feet deep x 20 feet wide fibreglass and, ≈18 x 3 x 3 across the front.
NO parallel walls.
Return those foam blocks if you can. They will do nothing.

 

[AJ Soundfield]

Use EQ at LF, ditch what Olive/Toole call money traps

 

[mikazuki5]

Bass traps won't that much if your speakers are also smack against the wall. The Buchardts are bass monsters, even the bass traps can't compete with that with them up against the wall. Try moving your workstation further down the room. Or get a miniDSP.

 

[DanDan]

You posted the same rhetoric elsewhere. As was pointed out there, REW shows that your room has very little LF modal action. But whatever modes are at play are buried down at lower levels as a result of the weak LF from your speakers.
The modes can be revealed by adjusting REW extents. Then we see that they are well mitigated by those Vicoustics. Perhaps you are a sore winner? ;-)

 

[Grayson Dere]

This is a very interesting post. I've been in the market in the past for bass traps and upon seeing this I am now rethinking my situation. Do bass traps
only work as they're supposed to in very specific room/speaker placement combinations? or are they actually a bit of a snake oil product?

Thank you for any and all input : )

 

[AJ Soundfield]

Do bass traps only work as they're supposed to in very specific room/speaker placement combinations? or are they actually a bit of a snake oil product?

That depends. For a fraction of the cost, you could buy Floyd Tooles book, learn about acoustic/perception reality as demonstrable, repeatable. You could also do the free listener training Harman, Philips, etc offer, to better detect resonances/FR. Listen to your bass first. Learn to trust what you ears are telling you. Measure 2nd. See what your eyes are telling you. Not all "scary" looking graphs correlate to audibility...although they are great for peddling elixirs . For any large peaks at the head area, use manual, judicious EQ to mitigate. Don't boost nulls.
If this is an HT, add multiple mono subs to 90Hz +/- with EQ. If stereo for acoustic music, don't go mono above 40-50Hz.
If midbass problems (>100hz) persist, try absorption aka traps with above. IOW, last, not first resort. Yes, far more work.
Or...do what 99.99% of audio forum fashion believers do. Start immediately with money traps and enticing marketing tales aka automated "Room EQ". No thinking required.

cheers,

 

[DanDan]

This is a Music Production Room including Mixing. The measured response is unique in my experience, very little modal action. Probably has very light walls.
Unlike every other room I have seen, the data says it doesn't need much in terms of LF trapping. It just needs more bass drive from speakers.

 

[CemArapkirlioglu]

This is a Music Production Room including Mixing. The measured response is unique in my experience, very little modal action. Probably has very light walls.
Unlike every other room I have seen, the data says it doesn't need much in terms of LF trapping. It just needs more bass drive from speakers.

Yeah, I posted them at the same time Facebook and here.

You are right, on the walls. They are very light walls. Almost every wall is a plaster wall on a wooden structure, old-school housing.

I also have driven the room with a different pair of speakers with a sub (Neumann KH120s with KH750 sub) and the results weren't any better. I still had that crazy dip at 80 Hz. I don't agree with you that it's just the speakers. But i am not disagreeing that they aren't as low-end beasts as one might expect. But that's not the game I am after really, I am not an EDM producer I just need equal response from my upper bass - lower mids zones. Which is what makes or breaks a mix anyway

And of course, I didn't build this room this way. I just ended up in it And I agree that it sounds / measures nothing like any other room i have ever worked in.

P.S. As you have suggested earlier, I am still waiting for the desk to arrive to experiment further with speaker positioning. I will report after the desk

 

[DanDan]

My first comment on the matter on FaceCloth was 'your speaker/room response is lacking in Bass'
I have never even slightly said it was speakers alone. But unfortunately that speaker is quite light in it's loafers, probably meant to benefit from placement on a big mixing desk or other boundary reinforcements.
Your 80Hz issue could easily be a resonant absorption of the walls or SBIR or Modal. You need to identify that and deal with it. Play an 80Hz sine wave. If modal, there will be vivid nulls and peaks. Don't forget vertical. An 8' ceiling has a 73Hz Null at mid (listener) height, everywhere in the room. If you have a modal null place the sub in the null..... Half height.
I don't think you realise how lucky you are to be in a room which does not have massive boundaries. Newell calls such spaces, or vehicles, Limp Bag. It is a very desirable starting point.
Now, please find the cause of your 80Hz dip and address it. Probably with one or two subs located strategically. I think it would be fair to ask you to retract your incorrect accusation of Vicoustic of a failed product, when in fact it is working fine as my Waterfall shows.

 

[pklose]

This is by far one of the strangest measurements of an existing room I have seen. There seems to be almost modal influence of the room.

Regarding you question of the vicoustic absorber. If you look at the RT60 values... It does exactly what its supposed to do. But, you do not bass traps. You need some midrange absorption and some high frequency scattering.

 

[Roger Wallander]

The 80 Hz dip is in the loudspeaker. A from your measurement. B is from Amphion Web site. From 20 Hz to 100 Hz frequency response from JPEG A and B have a close match.

 

[Kakkadu]

Best improvement for that room would be to get rid of the plaster walls and replace them with something softer. Hard surfaces are a bane of audio reproduction. There seems to be delayed energy at 50hz and 100hz which would indicate a modal problem. A couple of helmholtz resonators could help the situation. But as others said, your biggest problem is lack of bottom end extension at the moment.