Using the Onkyo 805 as an external amp

[Asere]

I currently am using my Denon avr x4200 along with the Onkyo 805 as an external amp for a 5.4.2 setup. I connected the LCR and the TOP Rears to the 805 and sounds great but I notice the bass is not the same as before. It is actually less even though I checked the levels and changed the speakers to small after running Audyssey. Also the subs are connected to the 4200 separate sub outputs and has SubEQ HT. Can the issue be because I am using the 805 for LCR? It seems like I had better bass when the LCR's were connected to the 4200.

 

[Tony V.]

Are you sure you bypassed the 805s Audyssey settings? It could be still filtering.

 

[Asere]

Are you sure you bypassed the 805s Audyssey settings? It could be still filtering.

Well once the speakers were connected to the 805 I ran Audyssey using the 4200 like it should. How do you bypass Audyssey on the 805? I thought running Audyssey with the 4200 was all it took.

 

[Tony V.]

So the best thing to do would be a hard factory reset of the 805 but another option is to just disable Audyssey in the user menu. Given that at some point you did have Audyssey set up on the 805 I would assume it is still active so your in essence applying EQ twice and likely a crossover twice as well..

 

[Asere]

So the best thing to do would be a hard factory reset of the 805 but another option is to just disable Audyssey in the user menu. Given that at some point you did have Audyssey set up on the 805 I would assume it is still active so your in essence applying EQ twice and likely a crossover twice as well..

That is interesting. I would have never thought of that considering the 4200 took care of it. I will disengage Audyssey on the 805 and redo Audyssey then.
Also if the speaker size on the 805 were set to FULL (I am not sure I will have to check but it occurred to me right now since you mentioned turning of Audyssey on the 805) will that play a role on what's happening even if the 4200 are set to Small or is the speaker part bypassed since its set to Small on the 4200? If the 805 is set to FULL I will first try Small and see if that changes things.

 

[Tony V.]

On the 805 run everything full and only use the 4200 to set anything outside of that.

 

[Asere]

On the 805 run everything full and only use the 4200 to set anything outside of that.

But wouldn't it make better sense running both receivers set to Small? I thought the speaker size changes are done with the 4200 regardless if they are connected to the 4200 or not?

 

[Tony V.]

No, because the 805 would then be adding a second crossover slope to what is already being done in the 4200

 

[Asere]

I may do a hard factory reset on the 805 period just to see if the Harmony remote will communicate better. It has a mind of it's own when it comes to turning on/off.

 

[Asere]

So the best thing to do would be a hard factory reset of the 805 but another option is to just disable Audyssey in the user menu. Given that at some point you did have Audyssey set up on the 805 I would assume it is still active so your in essence applying EQ twice and likely a crossover twice as well..

I did the hard factory reset and set the speakers on the 805 to Full and Audyssey off and no change. But from what I read multi CH Direct overrides everything including Audyssey and speaker size on the 805. I think it may be the way the Audyssey on the x4200 is interacting with the 805 LCR connection. I am no expert on this but to be sure I think I will reconnect the LCR's to the x4200 and redo Audyssey and see.

Do you know if its a possibility that the bass sound that I am used to hearing is gone because of the difference in amps and how Audyssey interacts from one amp to the other?

 

[Tony V.]

I dont think there should be any reason for a change in sound between the two. Could be the implementation of Audyssey on the 4200 but hard to say without testing like your doing. have you tried using better quality interconnects between the 4200 and the 805?

 

[Asere]

I dont think there should be any reason for a change in sound between the two. Could be the implementation of Audyssey on the 4200 but hard to say without testing like your doing. have you tried using better quality interconnects between the 4200 and the 805?

I agree there should not be any change between the two. If that were the case why bother with amps. At the same time I am using an avr for an external amp vs a dedicated amp but that shouldn't matter I think. I use banana plugs with 12 or 14 gauge wire. (can't remember which one)

 

[ddude003]

Hi Asere, I am wondering if you are using the Denon avr x4200 as a preamp for your LCR channels and your Onkyo 805 as a power amp... What specific outputs on the Denon are connected to what specific inputs on the Onkyo... Could you be running a preamp out from the Denon into another preamp and power amp on the Onkyo???

 

[Asere]

Hi Asere, I am wondering if you are using the Denon avr x4200 as a preamp for your LCR channels and your Onkyo 805 as a power amp... What specific outputs on the Denon are connected to what specific inputs on the Onkyo... Could you be running a preamp out from the Denon into another preamp and power amp on the Onkyo???

Her is the way it is connected with each avr. The 4200 is the bottom pic.

 

[ddude003]

My guess would be that your connections are correct for what you are wanting to do... All other things being equal, my thoughts are your Onkyo preamp and power amp may be coloring the sound a little different... You do not want any signal processing going on here... From a quick look at the Onkyo docs you can set that analogue input as several different labels/modes? (DVD, VCR/DVR, CBL/SAT, GAME/TV, AUX 1, AUX 2, TAPE, CD, or PHONO). Page 54 but could not find a corresponding voltage and ohm spec for what those channels are expecting and if they are somehow switched when the tables/modes are switched (not all line level inputs and outputs are equal)... I am also wondering if the Volume/Gain is working on both AVRs as you may have to set the Volume/Gain on the Onkyo to a certain level to get optimum sonic performance. From my point of view you have an extra preamp in the loop...

 

[Asere]

My guess would be that your connections are correct for what you are wanting to do... All other things being equal, my thoughts are your Onkyo preamp and power amp may be coloring the sound a little different... You do not want any signal processing going on here... From a quick look at the Onkyo docs you can set that analogue input as several different labels/modes? (DVD, VCR/DVR, CBL/SAT, GAME/TV, AUX 1, AUX 2, TAPE, CD, or PHONO). Page 54 but could not find a corresponding voltage and ohm spec for what those channels are expecting and if they are somehow switched when the tables/modes are switched (not all line level inputs and outputs are equal)... I am also wondering if the Volume/Gain is working on both AVRs as you may have to set the Volume/Gain on the Onkyo to a certain level to get optimum sonic performance. From my point of view you have an extra preamp in the loop...

Well I went ahead and reconnected the LCR's to the x4200 and just left the top rear surrounds connected and it's BASS NIRVANA all over again. Night and Day. I don't really know what happened with the 805 maybe because it's a bedrock receiver but at this point don't matter anymore. I'm a happy man now
Thanks to everyone for their input in trying to help me with this matter.