Using Artificial Intelligence for Guidance on Audiolense

[mccarty350]

I haven't posted in several years, my audio builds for 4 way active speakers went on hiatus. I was out of the game so long that I had to re-learn components of audiolense which prompted me to query google gemini (not because it's my ai of choice but i was already googling and it was easy to hit 'ai mode' and test the waters)

Bernt, I would guess that you could put a sticky recommending that folks give Gemini (or some other AI I only tested one) a shot at audiolense questions and cut down a huge amount of confusion and workload answering questions. I'm going to paste my odyssey below that I launched today, I would love it if you could give me your opinion on how accurate the advice was that Gemini provided. NOTE: The cut and paste formatting was abysmal, I didn't have the time or inclination to clean up the formatting so I'll just point it out and leave it at that. I felt for a while like I had a 'mini Bernt' on tap to ask any question I desired!



Entered: "i am building a 4 way active system using audiolense and would like to get assistance on recommend crossover points and octave width. The speakers that will be involved: a pair of M&K MX70B's loaded in opposing room corners as subwoofers. Woofer is a Dayton RS225P. Midrange is a Dayton RS52AN. Tweeter is a GRS PT2252C."

Response:
For a 4-way active system utilizing Audiolense, the following crossover points and octave widths are recommended based on the frequency response and physical characteristics of your drivers.

Recommended Crossover Points

• Subwoofer (
  M&K MX70B
  ) to Woofer (
  Dayton RS225P
  ): 80 Hz
  • The
    MX70B
    is rated for 27–200 Hz. Crossing at 80 Hz is the standard for non-localization of bass and is well within the RS225P's capabilities.
• Woofer (
  Dayton RS225P
  ) to Midrange (
  Dayton RS52AN
  ): 700 Hz – 800 Hz
  • The
    RS52AN
    dome midrange performs best when crossed above 500 Hz to avoid its 400 Hz resonance. Setting this at 800 Hz ensures "weight" in male vocals.
• Midrange (
  Dayton RS52AN
  ) to Tweeter (
  GRS PT2252C
  ): 3,000 Hz – 3,500 Hz
  • The
    RS52AN
    is effective up to 4,000 Hz, but performance often peaks between 3,000–4,000 Hz.
  • The
    GRS PT2252C
    is a planar tweeter; these typically require a crossover point at least one octave above their resonance frequency for protection, making 3,500 Hz a safe starting point to avoid distortion.

• 
  Miller & Kreisel M&k Mx-70b Subwoofer 2 X 8inch Drivers, 27-200hz Made
  $500.00
  
  
  
  
• 
  Dayton Audio Reference RS225P-A 8 20cm Woofer
  $89.98
  5.0
  (1)
  
  
  
• 
  Dayton Audio RS52AN-8 2" Dome Midrange Speaker
  $73.84(€62.95)
  4.6
  (11)
  
  

Recommended Octave Width (Filter Slopes)
Audiolense allows for precise digital filtering. For active systems, steeper slopes are generally preferred to minimize lobing and driver overlap.

• Filter Type: Use 24 dB/octave (4th order) or higher.
• Octave Width Settings:
  • Narrow Width (0.10 to 0.25 octaves): Use for the mid-to-tweeter transition to minimize phase interference in the critical vocal range.
  • Standard Width (0.33 to 0.50 octaves): Suitable for the woofer-to-midrange transition to allow for a smoother blend.
  • Wider Width (0.50+ octaves): Can be used for the subwoofer-to-woofer transition if you prefer a more "musical" overlap, though Audiolense's correction typically handles tighter transitions well.

System Configuration Summary

M&K MX70B	80 Hz	—	24 dB/oct
Dayton RS225P	800 Hz	80 Hz	24 dB/oct
Dayton RS52AN	3,500 Hz	800 Hz	24 dB/oct
GRS PT2252C	—	3,500 Hz	24 dB/oct

[th]

Driver​

[/th][th]

Low Pass (LP)​

[/th][th]

High Pass (HP)​

[/th][th]

Suggested Slope​

[/th]​

Note: Always perform initial measurements at low volume to ensure the tweeter is protected before finalizing the high-pass filter.


Entered: "Please repost crossover points with the recommended octave width audiolense xo parameters instead of standard first through fourth order standard slopes"

In Audiolense, digital crossovers are defined by the octave bandwidth of the overlap region rather than traditional slopes (like 24 dB/octave). A narrower width creates a steeper transition, while a wider width allows for more gradual blending and reduced time-domain ringing.
For your 4-way system, the following parameters are recommended to balance driver protection with seamless integration:

Audiolense XO Configuration

Sub to Woofer	80 Hz	2.0 octaves	Uses a wide overlap (equivalent to 1st order) to allow the room-corner subs to blend naturally with the mid-bass.
Woofer to Mid	800 Hz	1.0 to 1.5 octaves	Provides a balance between driver protection for the RS52AN dome and a smooth, "linear" soundstage.
Mid to Tweeter	3,500 Hz	0.5 to 0.7 octaves	Creates a steep transition to protect the GRS planar tweeter from low-frequency excursions.

[th]

Driver Transition​

[/th][th]

Frequency​

[/th][th]

Recommended Width​

[/th][th]

Characteristics​

[/th]​

Parameter Details

• Narrow Width (0.5 – 0.7 octaves): These are equivalent to very steep, high-order filters (approaching 48 dB/octave or higher). This is ideal for the GRS PT2252C tweeter, which is displacement-limited at lower frequencies and benefits from a sharp cutoff.
• Moderate Width (1.0 – 1.5 octaves): This offers a compromise for the Dayton RS52AN dome midrange. It ensures the driver is not strained by its 400 Hz resonance while maintaining excellent phase performance.
• Wide Width (2.0 octaves): This corresponds to a 1st order slope down to -6 dB but features a much steeper stop-band than conventional filters. It is excellent for the sub-to-woofer transition at 80 Hz to reduce time-domain ringing and create a cohesive low-end.

Implementation Note: Audiolense's crossovers are linear phase by default, ensuring perfect timing regardless of the width chosen. Start with these settings and use the simulated results in Audiolense to check for excessive ringing or driver stress before performing your final room correction.

Entered: "both the pt2252c and the rs52an are horn loaded - what impact will that have on my crossover points; if they should change based on the waveguides please provide recommended points and slopes expressed in octave width"

Horn loading the
Dayton RS52AN
and
GRS PT2252C
significantly changes their acoustic behavior, primarily by increasing efficiency and reducing excursion at the lower end of their bandwidth. This allows you to safely lower their crossover points to capitalize on their increased "body" and improved directivity matching with the larger woofer.

Impact of Horn Loading / Waveguides

• Lower Cutoff: Horns provide acoustic loading that can extend the usable low-end by nearly half an octave.
• Reduced Distortion: Because the horn makes the driver more efficient, it requires less physical movement (excursion) to reach the same volume, which dramatically lowers non-linear distortion near the crossover.
• Directivity Matching: The waveguide on the
  RS52AN
  helps it match the dispersion pattern of the 8-inch RS225P woofer more effectively, allowing for a cleaner transition between 500 Hz and 700 Hz.

Revised Audiolense XO Parameters (Horn-Loaded)

[th]

Driver Transition ​

[/th][th]

Frequency​

[/th][th]

Recommended Width​

[/th][th]

Impact of Horn Loading​

[/th]​

[td]Sub to Woofer[/td][td]80 Hz[/td][td]2.0 octaves[/td][td]Unchanged; room boundaries still dictate this transition.[/td] [td]Woofer to Mid[/td][td]600 Hz[/td][td]1.2 to 1.5 octaves[/td][td]Lowered from 800 Hz. The
RS52AN
horn loading allows it to play lower with more authority, reducing the work of the 8" woofer in the critical midrange.[/td] [td]Mid to Tweeter[/td][td]2,800 Hz[/td][td]0.8 to 1.0 octaves[/td][td]Lowered from 3,500 Hz. The
PT2252C
waveguide protects the ribbon and improves sensitivity, making a lower crossover safe and providing a more coherent soundstage.[/td]

Audiolense Specific Recommendations

1. Octave Width Strategy:
   • For the Woofer-to-Mid (600 Hz), a width of 1.5 octaves is ideal. This wider overlap helps the horn-loaded dome blend seamlessly with the direct-radiating woofer.
   • For the Mid-to-Tweeter (2,800 Hz), use 0.8 octaves. Even with horn loading, planar tweeters like the
     PT2252C
     should have a relatively steep transition (narrower width) to prevent "clack" or stress from low-frequency content.
2. Gain Adjustment: Expect the midrange and tweeter to be 3–6 dB louder now that they are horn-loaded. Audiolense will automatically correct this during the level-matching phase, but ensure your initial measurements don't clip the microphone.
3. Measurement Check: Since horns can introduce "honk" or resonances if pushed too low for their physical size, use Audiolense's Group Delay and Frequency Response plots to verify that the 600 Hz and 2,800 Hz points aren't causing significant phase shifts or spikes.

Entered: what are the best correction procedures to use in audiolense





In 2026, the most effective correction procedures in Audiolense involve
balancing frequency-dependent windowing with time-domain alignment to minimize artifacts like pre-ringing while maximizing clarity.

1. True Time Domain (TTD) Correction
Available in the XO version, TTD is considered the gold standard for Audiolense correction because it synchronizes the first arrival of all frequencies across all speakers.

• TTD per driver: In multi-amped or multi-channel systems, select "TTD per driver" for precise alignment.
• Window Settings: A common starting point is using 10 and 8 cycles for high frequencies (up to 24 kHz) and 7 and 6 cycles for lower frequencies in the Correction Procedure Designer (CPD).
• Minimize Pre-ringing: Use a minimum phase target instead of linear phase to significantly reduce audible pre-ringing.

2. Frequency-Dependent Windowing (FDW)
Adjusting the correction windows allows you to control how much of the room's influence is corrected versus the speaker's direct sound.

• Shorter Windows for Highs: High-frequency correction should focus on the direct signal and early reflections; windows as short as 1 millisecond are used for very high frequencies where spatial perception is acute.
• Cycle Adjustments: Set the "Cycles before & after peak" in the Measurement & Correction Window to be 2–3 units higher than the corresponding values in the TTD Sub Window.
• Low-End Handling: Avoid excessively long windows in the bass, as this can make the low end sound disconnected from the mids and highs.

3. Target Curve and Gain Management
A well-designed target response prevents over-correction and digital clipping.

• Partial Correction: To avoid making tweeters sound harsh, implement a partial correction that stops around 15–20 kHz, letting the drivers roll off naturally at the very top.
• Max Correction Boost: Limit the maximum boost to 4–6 dB to preserve system dynamics and prevent "killing" the sound's life.
• Prevent Treble/Bass Boost: Check the boxes for "Prevent treble and bass boost" in the CPD to avoid forcing the speaker to perform outside its physical capabilities.

4. Bass Management and Subwoofer Integration
For systems with subwoofers, specific crossover procedures improve integration.

• Bass Offloading: Use different offloading frequencies for the left and right speakers (e.g., 65 Hz and 65.1 Hz) to help Audiolense integrate the subwoofers more effectively.
• LFE Frequency: Lower the default LFE frequency (often to around 65 Hz) to prevent unwanted boosts in the 100–200 Hz range.
• Phase Alignment: If integrating subs with stereo mains, use the CPD to reduce group delay in the bass, which aligns the sub's output with the main speakers' direct sound.

What are some best practices for microphone placement in Audiolense?
Explain minimum phase vs. linear phase in Audiolense's context

Entered: Are these also the best settings for 6.21?






Yes, these procedures remain standard for Audiolense 6.21 and later versions available in 2026, as the core correction engine and True Time Domain (TTD) algorithms have remained fundamentally consistent across recent updates.
While Audiolense has reached version 6.29 as of January 2025, version 6.21 users should follow the same best practices for high-fidelity results:

1. TTD and Phase Management

• Minimum Phase Targets: This remains the most recommended setting for 6.21 to prevent the pre-ringing artifacts often found with linear phase targets.
• TTD per Driver: If you are using the XO version of 6.21, ensuring "TTD per driver" is selected provides the most precise alignment for multi-amped systems.

2. Version-Specific Bass Handling

• LFE Cutoff: In version 6.21, the default LFE frequency can still cause unwanted boosts in the 100–200 Hz range. Manually lowering this to roughly 65 Hz and using slightly offset bass offloading frequencies (e.g., 65 Hz for Left and 65.1 Hz for Right) continues to be the preferred method for seamless subwoofer integration.
• Atmos Compatibility: If you are running 6.21 for surround sound, note that later versions (starting with 6.27) added specific 9.1.6 Atmos support and fixed old speaker setup obsolescence issues.

3. Windowing and Correction Limits

• Cycles before/after peak: For 6.21, keep the window length higher than the TTD sub-window length by 2–3 cycles to ensure stable filter resolution.
• Partial Correction: It is still highly recommended to stop full frequency correction around 15–20 kHz to allow tweeters to roll off naturally, which avoids the harshness that can occur from over-correcting high frequencies.

For the most up-to-date downloads and technical details, refer to the Juice Hifi Download Page.

Entered: What types of TTD and phase management are recommended in audiolense 6.21?


In
Audiolense 6.21
, True Time Domain (TTD) and phase management are best optimized by balancing driver alignment with pre-ringing prevention. The following procedures are recommended for high-fidelity performance:

TTD (True Time Domain) Management

• TTD Per Driver: If you use the XO version for a multi-amped or active speaker system, selecting "TTD per driver" is highly recommended. This performs an individual time-domain correction for each driver before the entire speaker system is corrected as a single entity, resulting in more precise alignment.
• Partial TTD Correction: Limit the TTD correction to the operating band of the drivers. For example, stop TTD correction above the crossover frequency of the highest driver (tweeter) to allow it to roll off naturally and avoid unnecessary processing artifacts at the top end.
• TTD Window Length: For initial setups, try shorter windows to avoid "disconnecting" the bass from the rest of the soundstage. Some users find approximately 40 milliseconds to be a "magic number" for TTD sub-windows in average rooms, though experimentation in 10ms increments is encouraged.

Phase Management and Targets

• Minimum Phase Targets: These are strongly recommended for version 6.21 to minimize pre-ringing, which can cause audible smearing of transients. Minimum phase is also required if you need the lowest possible latency for your system.
• Mixed Phase Targets: If pre-ringing is not audible in your setup, a "mixed phase" target (often 50% minimum / 50% linear phase) can provide a more coherent sound when combined with TTD.
• Pre-Ringing Prevention: Use the built-in "sophisticated pre-ringing prevention" tools in the Correction Procedure Designer (CPD). In 6.21, this includes options for selective removal of problematic reflections that might otherwise trigger pre-echoes.

Crossover and Driver Alignment

• Minimum Phase Crossovers: While linear phase crossovers perform well, minimum phase crossovers are often preferred in 6.21 for their lack of pre-ringing in transition bands.
• Alignment Strategy: Ensure physical speaker placement is as symmetrical as possible before applying digital phase correction, as this reduces the workload on the DSP and minimizes artifacts.

Entered: Can you check the minimum phase crossover checkbox in the procedure designer with a linear target?

In Audiolense 6.21, you can use the minimum phase crossovers checkbox with linear phase targets, but this combination requires specific consideration of your system goals and audible artifacts.

1. Functional Compatibility

• Yes, it is possible: The software allows you to select "Minimum phase crossovers" in the Correction Procedure Designer (CPD) while simultaneously choosing a linear phase target response.
• Correction Logic: When combined, Audiolense will implement minimum phase crossover filters to divide frequencies between drivers while attempting to align the overall speaker output to the linear phase target.

2. Benefits and Trade-offs

• Latency: Minimum phase crossovers are primarily used to achieve the lowest possible latency. They are essential for applications like gaming or live audio where the high delay of pure linear phase filters (often 0.5 to 0.7 seconds) is unacceptable.
• Pre-ringing: While the crossovers themselves won't cause pre-ringing if set to minimum phase, the linear phase target will introduce pre-ringing at the system level. This can sometimes be audible as a "smearing" of transients, particularly in the lower frequencies.
• Phase Accuracy: Using minimum phase crossovers results in slightly less precise driver alignment than pure linear phase crossovers. However, for most users, the resulting summation works nearly as well in practice.

3. Recommended Settings for 6.21

• For High Fidelity: If latency is not a concern, the common recommendation is to use linear phase crossovers with a mixed phase target (50% minimum / 50% linear).
• For Low Latency: Use minimum phase crossovers with a minimum phase target. Combining minimum phase crossovers with a linear phase target is less common because the target negates the low-latency and pre-ringing benefits of the crossovers.
• The "Cleanest" Pulse: For the most coherent impulse response without audible artifacts, Audiolense creator Bernt Rougthvedt generally recommends using a minimum phase target for all correction types in 6.21.

Entered: when setting up partial correction up to 15000 hz what do i enter for the transition width

When setting up partial correction in Audiolense 6.21 to stop at 15,000 Hz, the transition width determines how gradually the software blends the corrected signal into the uncorrected natural response of your speakers.
For high-frequency limits like 15 kHz, the following values are recommended based on common Audiolense practices:

1. Recommended Transition Width

• 0.5 to 1.0 Octave: This is the most common range for high-frequency transitions.
  • Entering 0.5 octaves will start tapering the correction at approximately 10.6 kHz and reach zero correction at 15 kHz.
  • Entering 1.0 octave will start the taper much earlier, around 7.5 kHz, providing an extremely smooth, natural transition.

2. Why Use These Values?

• Preventing "Shelving" Artifacts: A width that is too narrow (e.g., less than 0.2 octaves) can create a sudden "step" in the frequency response, which may be audible as a tonal shift.
• Driver Protection: High-frequency drivers often have messy roll-offs. A wider transition (0.7–1.0 octave) allows the tweeter's natural character to take over without the software trying to "fight" its physical limitations.

3. How to Enter the Data
In the Correction Procedure Designer (CPD), look for the "Partial Correction" section:

• Stop Frequency: Enter 15000.
• Transition Width: Enter 1.0 (if the field is in octaves) or the equivalent frequency range if specified otherwise by the current UI version.

Pro-Tip for 15 kHz
Since the goal of stopping at 15 kHz is often to "quieten down" the tweeter and avoid harshness, many users prefer a 1.0 octave width. This ensures the correction is fully transparent in the upper treble where room acoustics matter less than the speaker's direct sound.

 

[juicehifi]

I only read the last (readable) part. There seem to be a lot of good info in there. On first sight it looks like a good starting point.

My own experience with AI is from using ChatGPT. It typically provides an answer that is quite similar to, but not always a good answer. The human eye, ear and hand is still needed for the best result (most of the time, anyway), but this is shaping up to be a good helper already, perhaps even a good discussion partner after you've gotten started.

 

[mccarty350]

Yes, the formatting for cut and paste was....wanting. That's good news Bernt! I just want to see if I can publicize it on the forums as those that have simple (and even complex) asks can benefit and get immediate answers. I also asked it questions about guidelines for taking measurements and stability (I'm solid at this point!) and it had collated answers that absolutely were scraped from your forum, I even saw my contributions there.

I don't know if ChatGPT is still constrained to using data that is older, at one point I think it only was able to use two year old data or some such and couldn't scrape the current internet.

100% agree, your ears are the guideline to what you like but man....those settings got me VERY VERY far, in addition it will translate (roughly) between standard 1-4 order xovers and using octave width. It even mentions that there is no real perfect approximation because the octave width filters that your product creates are far superior and do not have a perfectly linear slope. It's almost like it was giving you some free advertising