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While this thread is really about sub placement and phase alignment between subs, I hope that it can further elaborate on other setup options for subwoofers, and phase alignment between the subs and mains. Typically I have two subs up front and let Dirac do all the work, with excellent results, but now I've added two more subs. My goal is to learn more about phase as it relates to setting up subs and mains, while also doing all I can do to optimize my subwoofers and get the most out of my investment for my room, while also getting the smoothest transition from sub to mains.
I won't mention everything in my system as you can click on My System below my avatar and see the equipment. We are working with four SVS SB16-Ultras in a room that is 19.5ft wide by 23.5ft deep. The main front speakers are MartinLogan ESL Classic 9 powered by Emotiva XPA-1 Monoblocks... with the NAD M17 processing the system with Dirac Live.
I have found a home for two of the SB16's on each side of the back row of seating... and prefer to keep them there, but the fronts I am moving around to experiment where I can get the best response. I have thus far tried front corners, out from the front corners to the front edge of the front riser, various locations down the side wall to about the half way point, then out from the side wall in several locations, and currently next to the front speakers angled towards the listener and parallel with the mains. All of these positions ultimately sound very good after processing, so it's not that they are bad, but the question is can they be better in some ways. I'm not sure that my perception is effected just by seeing a cleaner response. I have not tried inside of the front speakers yet, but that seems like a good next place to check and see how they perform there.
Thus far I have kept both front subs equidistant from the main listening position... and the same with the rear subs. I keep them symmetrically placed in the front and then in the rear... so it should be the same as having one sub up front and one sub in the rear. However I am not against placing them asymmetrically in the front, although that will create the necessity of time aligning 3 sub locations.
The mains are pulled on out into the room for the best sound stage, imaging and depth acuity. Several of us here, Wayne, Dennis, and Leonard and a few others from time to time... have all experimented with countless speakers in this room... evaluations, professional reviews, and my personal speakers of many different flavors. They have all performed best pull on out into the room. However, this is always at the sacrifice of the low end of the mains (save a few models), where the response is less than desirable below 120Hz.... so subs are a must.
I have tried using the acoustical timing and basically take a bunch of measurements of the front and several for the rear... until I get two measurements with the same reference point. Then I adjust phase on the rears, which are closer... then do more measurements until I get two matching the same reference point again... probably an unfruitful waste of time, as I don't think it's working properly. I have never really understood phase.. just seems too complicated for me. I am looking for options on how best to accomplish this task correctly.
So... I have called on jtalden for assistance in this thread. He is very knowledgeable with phase and time alignment of speakers... and has helped several others with excellent results. He has agreed to evaluate my setup and help me figure it all out, while at the same time agreeing to allow this to be a guide on what and how he does it. Hopefully it will be help for those of us who don't quite understand it as well as we would like.
@jtalden ... you can tell me what you need from me and I'll work on getting it for you. However you would like to preface what you will be doing is fine by me... I sincerely appreciate your assistance.
Here are pics of the rear subs that I want to keep as they are... and the front subs next to the mains.
I won't mention everything in my system as you can click on My System below my avatar and see the equipment. We are working with four SVS SB16-Ultras in a room that is 19.5ft wide by 23.5ft deep. The main front speakers are MartinLogan ESL Classic 9 powered by Emotiva XPA-1 Monoblocks... with the NAD M17 processing the system with Dirac Live.
I have found a home for two of the SB16's on each side of the back row of seating... and prefer to keep them there, but the fronts I am moving around to experiment where I can get the best response. I have thus far tried front corners, out from the front corners to the front edge of the front riser, various locations down the side wall to about the half way point, then out from the side wall in several locations, and currently next to the front speakers angled towards the listener and parallel with the mains. All of these positions ultimately sound very good after processing, so it's not that they are bad, but the question is can they be better in some ways. I'm not sure that my perception is effected just by seeing a cleaner response. I have not tried inside of the front speakers yet, but that seems like a good next place to check and see how they perform there.
Thus far I have kept both front subs equidistant from the main listening position... and the same with the rear subs. I keep them symmetrically placed in the front and then in the rear... so it should be the same as having one sub up front and one sub in the rear. However I am not against placing them asymmetrically in the front, although that will create the necessity of time aligning 3 sub locations.
The mains are pulled on out into the room for the best sound stage, imaging and depth acuity. Several of us here, Wayne, Dennis, and Leonard and a few others from time to time... have all experimented with countless speakers in this room... evaluations, professional reviews, and my personal speakers of many different flavors. They have all performed best pull on out into the room. However, this is always at the sacrifice of the low end of the mains (save a few models), where the response is less than desirable below 120Hz.... so subs are a must.
I have tried using the acoustical timing and basically take a bunch of measurements of the front and several for the rear... until I get two measurements with the same reference point. Then I adjust phase on the rears, which are closer... then do more measurements until I get two matching the same reference point again... probably an unfruitful waste of time, as I don't think it's working properly. I have never really understood phase.. just seems too complicated for me. I am looking for options on how best to accomplish this task correctly.
So... I have called on jtalden for assistance in this thread. He is very knowledgeable with phase and time alignment of speakers... and has helped several others with excellent results. He has agreed to evaluate my setup and help me figure it all out, while at the same time agreeing to allow this to be a guide on what and how he does it. Hopefully it will be help for those of us who don't quite understand it as well as we would like.
@jtalden ... you can tell me what you need from me and I'll work on getting it for you. However you would like to preface what you will be doing is fine by me... I sincerely appreciate your assistance.
Here are pics of the rear subs that I want to keep as they are... and the front subs next to the mains.
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