REW no longer works with ASIO (win10)

[Christoffer Griffin]

I have been using REW with UMIK for a bit over a year. First with Java (because of old laptop without HDMI) and later with ASIO4ALL.

I have a 5.1.4 setup with a Minidsp HD for the subwoofer.
Windows 10
HDMI cable to the yamaha aux.

All of a sudden today I no longer was able to use the Umik in REW. Last time I used it sucsessfully was October 2018 (yes I have been pretty content for that long lol).
I couldnt choose the umik so I checked the ASIO control within REW and there was a big red X next to it.

The mic works fine in Windows. If I snap my fingers the green bar moves and I can talk into it using other apps.

I have tried all things I can google including:
* making sure I have exited all apps I know use a mike (skype/webex teams/firefox etc)
* flipping the new privacy mic setting off and on
* unchecking the "exclusive mode" boxes"
* muting the windows sound settings
* unplugging and replugging hdmi/umik in different orders
* upgrading to 5.20
* uninstalling and downgrading to 5.19
* 32 and 64 bit tested
* tried flexasio
* reinstalled ASIO4ALL

It really feels like something is holding the mike and not making me use it in REW.
Trying to reload and even just checking the ASIO control usually freezez REW so hard that I have to close the app by TaskManager. Then I have to reboot otherwise just starting REW again makes it just freeze instantly ( I will never be able to click "preferences").

If I do choose "Java" it imediately works and I get asked what calibrationfile to use. I can measure and get perfect results in Java-mode. Tryin to switch to ASIO gives instant freeze sometimes even before the pull down meny even goes away - thats how instant it freezez.

Another clue could be that I am no longer able to "setup a mike" bc it goes straight to saying speech isnt supported with current settings. I have tried US/US and I can then get it to go through the "setup" wich only consists of me talking into the umic and Windows accepting it. I am no longer able to get to the stage where you have the green/yellow/red bar of actual mic-setup.

Open to any suggestions.

 

[John Mulcahy]

You aren't alone, see this thread and this one. It went away on its own for me, though there had been a Windows update. Interesting that you saw it on an older REW version. When I was seeing it I could get the UMIK working with FlexASIO, however, as you'll see in that 2nd thread.

 

[EarlK]

Christopher,

All the signs point to another app on your computer keeping the UMIK-1 mic active as an Exclusive input device for use by that app only.

The first link that John posted above has myself as the second poster ( and represents a good example of this unexpected behavior ).

Eventually ( out of curiosity ) I installed this ( VoiceMeeter app which was belatedly mentioned in post #3
>> fyi, this VoiceMeeter software is a more evolved form of Virtual Audio Cable ).

I was able to duplicate the posters problems & also create a simplistic remedy ( after fiddling some with it's control software ).

This particular app ( & it's accompanying ASIO driver ) is very possessive of it's audio resources ( when the app is active and streaming ) in this case denying REW ( via ASIO4ALL ) from the ability to use ( ie; loading ) the UMIK-1 mic.
- More injurious to the casual computer user is that the app wasn't coded in such a way to immediately release its audio resources back into the general pool of available Win10 audio devices ( when the app is off ) .

You might be experiencing something similar ( especially if you are a gamer and/or have activated Dolby Atmos on your computer ).

 

[Christoffer Griffin]

Christopher,

All the signs point to another app on your computer keeping the UMIK-1 mic active as an Exclusive input device for use by that app only.

The first link that John posted above has myself as the second poster ( and represents a good example of this unexpected behavior ).

Eventually ( out of curiosity ) I installed this ( VoiceMeeter app which was belatedly mentioned in post #3
>> fyi, this VoiceMeeter software is a more evolved form of Virtual Audio Cable ).

I was able to duplicate the posters problems & also create a simplistic remedy ( after fiddling some with it's control software ).

This particular app ( & it's accompanying ASIO driver ) is very possessive of it's audio resources ( when the app is active and streaming ) in this case denying REW ( via ASIO4ALL ) from the ability to use ( ie; loading ) the UMIK-1 mic.
- More injurious to the casual computer user is that the app wasn't coded in such a way to immediately release its audio resources back into the general pool of available Win10 audio devices ( when the app is off ) .

You might be experiencing something similar ( especially if you are a gamer and/or have activated Dolby Atmos on your computer ).

I do not game on this laptop but it did come with Atmos. It is a Lenovo X1 Yoga (gen3).
It it the same laptop I used when REW worked sucsessfully in October.

So what can I do to investigate and find the app that is holding the umik? If I can just find it I can kill it and that would not be a problem at all. Why can Windows still not tell us what is ocupying a recourse its insane?

 

[EarlK]

I do not game on this laptop but it did come with Atmos. It is a Lenovo X1 Yoga (gen3).
It it the same laptop I used when REW worked sucsessfully in October.

So what can I do to investigate and find the app that is holding the umik? If I can just find it I can kill it and that would not be a problem at all. Why can Windows still not tell us what is ocupying a recourse its insane?

Yes, that's the million-dollar question isn't it ?

As far as I know ) there's no dedicated "Search & Destroy" audio app that's made specifically to identify all available/unavailable audio channels and then close/release them ( by a users command if they are "stuck" ).

I should mention at this point that the VB Software that I previously mentioned is even more intrusive than I thought.
- It took me a good hour to trick it into releasing the WDM driver belonging to one of my Roland soundcards.

I'll be un-installing this ( pretty interesting ) software if it keeps up that sort of behavior .

A remedy?
- I would start by un-installing that Dolby Access app . ( & then followed by the requisite reboot of your system ).
- Open REW to look for a change.

- From my readings Dolby Access is quite persistent ( on it's own ) and is pretty hard to permanently erase from the OS ( ie; MicroSoft wants it there as part of a marketing deal with Dolby ).
- Apparently the bi-annual OS updates will re-install it no matter what you do ( it's really adware ).

 

[Christoffer Griffin]

But this is insane. I always loved windows because of the easy to just find apps for anything you needed like converting/editing sound/video etc but this mess really makes me feel locked out of my own system. Trying to setup a mic and *needing* to go through text to speech and basically getting raped by Cortana just to use a device I bought makes me want to try Linux again. (and it didnt even work so had to try and remove and revert everything I did).

 

[Christoffer Griffin]

You aren't alone, see this thread and this one. It went away on its own for me, though there had been a Windows update. Interesting that you saw it on an older REW version. When I was seeing it I could get the UMIK working with FlexASIO, however, as you'll see in that 2nd thread.

I actually never got Flexasio to work. I listed it as "tried" and this is what I did, however there are no help to get on the internet about my problems so I felt there must be a faster way to solve this then trial and error on this app.

I am willing to try it out more, but get "no asio driver" error, and also no matther what I try for input or output it always gives an error with flexasiotest so I am basically pretty far from getting that to work. (I list the devices with portaudiodevices and copy/paste to be sure to get the exact name but I cant get a single input or output to work).

 

[EarlK]

But this is insane. I always loved windows because of the easy to just find apps for anything you needed like converting/editing sound/video etc but this mess really makes me feel locked out of my own system. Trying to setup a mic and *needing* to go through text to speech and basically getting raped by Cortana just to use a device I bought makes me want to try Linux again. (and it didnt even work so had to try and remove and revert everything I did).

Well I hear ya, things are currently getting worse not better with some of this intrusive PC stuff.

Did you upgrade your Win10 to the latest version ( 1809 ) last fall? That might have been the start of the slippery slope for your system.

Have you tried disabling Cortana ?

Google: Cortana Disable

 

[Christoffer Griffin]

Disabling Cortana didnt help.

I looked at the HD audio driver and noticed it now has a date just days after my last succesful seans.

So I tried to rollback the driver and this got the Umik unstuck, however now the outputs were stuck.

So I just downloaded the latest version from Realteks homepage wich is a much older version then what Lenovo or windows update gives you. This driver makes me able to use both the Umik and what looks like all channels (yay) however the channels are scrambled so 1 wich used to be Left Front is now Surround back, and some Im not even sure where they are (cant use high volume at the moment) so Im not sure I have the discret subfoower channel but I asume its there just on another place then 4 wich its supposed to be.

It does feel a little more stable now so next time I have a moment with no family I will try it out. I woulkd really like my channels at the right place but will settle for this for the moment. I might fix what Im supposed to do and then try a different audiodriver version.


So even tho this was a usual driver-problem I still feel Win10 is to blame when its not helping but rather "sending me" on a wild goose chase by what the certified engineers on MS-foum tells you to try and also what Windows itself suggest, like having to setting up speech to properly setup the microphone and in my case then making me need to change the language and also just launcing Cortana in a way I never seen before.

Right now Android is better in the way that you can see what app actually has the right to a recourse. Also just for the feeling of windows...the o365 hasnt really been a true cloud-app until 2 years ago wich is also about the time I felt things started to be worse then it was at its "peak" when everything just worked ie for me XP, Windows 7 and also in the beginning of Win10. Now there wont be anymore versions just automatic updates......wow.....so this will probably mean its surprise-time whenever.

 

[welldun]

Here is what I've done and what has worked for me so far...
Once the AVR is connected via the HDMI cable and the Umik-1 connected via USB, I open Preferences in REW and select the ASIO4ALL. If it doesn't connect with the Umik-1 (red x on the mic section in under ASIO Control Panel as stated by the OP), I then click on 'Check Levels' which is listed under "Levels" in that same Soundcard tab in preferences, and I click Next, then Finish. Doing so gives an error message but then seems to force REW to search for the UMIK-1. Once it "finds" it, I sometimes get a message to confirm that I want to use the UMIK-1, and once I confirm, then the UMIK-1 becomes available in the Input section.

I hope this helps you and others.

Edit: Forgot to add, that if any of you try my procedure and confirm that it works for you as well, you should post it here so that we can have a larger sample group.

 

[John Mulcahy]

This post might work for some.

 

[EarlK]

This post might work for some.

That post over at AVS is quite helpful in as much as it starts to identify the problem child in this whole process .

That being ( the problem needing a fix ) it seems ASIO4ALL is currently acting very confused and losing track of which digital audio lines belong to which audio driver.

This is especially true when multi-channel audio is active ( via the HDMI graphics card ) and used with a UMIK-1 mic.

See;

I don't really know if its JAVA ( REW ) triggering these windows ( or if they are initiated from ASIO4ALL ) but they surely denote some ownership confusion ( of the working audio "pipes" ).

Anyways, I can duplicate all the same problems as mentioned by "IAH" ( if I activate my HDMI audio channels ) .
- I can also duplicate his fix which includes among other steps the multiple dismissing ( in my case 4 ) of the displayed window.

I also find that ( typically ) to "initialize" the newly made choice ( ie; the UMIK-1 ) after going through the process mentioned by IAH.
that I will open the "Levels" window to activate the UMIK-1 mic choice.



EDIT: One can see that a sampling rate of 96K ( & over ) is being allowed ( by REW ) when using ASIO4ALL with a UMIK-1 mic.
- I think that's a "no-no" and shouldn't be available as a choice.
- Choosing 96K is a reliable way to gag REW and prevent it from measuring ( since the UMIK-1 only samples at 48K ).

 

[John Mulcahy]

I've stopped the multiple "Assuming UMIK" notifications for the next beta. The sample rates shown are those offered by the ASIO driver, none of the inputs or outputs selected in that screenshot are actually a UMIK-1 so the rate is probably OK. ASIO4All generally limits the rates offered to those the selected devices support.

 

[EarlK]

I've stopped the multiple "Assuming UMIK" notifications for the next beta. The sample rates shown are those offered by the ASIO driver, none of the inputs or outputs selected in that screenshot are actually a UMIK-1 so the rate is probably OK. ASIO4All generally limits the rates offered to those the selected devices support.

Once the UMIK-1 is made available for use I can still choose an overall sampling rate of 96K or greater.

Doing so will of course lead to REW not working ( running a measurement ).

I know better than to make such a choice >> but I have to wonder how many others aren't that informed.

 

[John Mulcahy]

Which REW version, Earl?

 

[EarlK]

Which REW version, Earl?

Ahhh, sorry John ( I should have mentioned that ).

I'm using the latest REW, V5.20 Beta 4 ( multi-instance Version ).

Win10 Pro ( latest update > 1809 )

Earl

 

[John Mulcahy]

I've made a change for the next beta to select 48k when a UMIK is first selected while using ASIO, but interestingly enough it works fine with 96k selected for me - presume the OS (Win10) is resampling.

 

[EarlK]

I've made a change for the next beta to select 48k when a UMIK is first selected while using ASIO, but interestingly enough it works fine with 96k selected for me - presume the OS (Win10) is resampling.

That is quite interesting.

I don't really know if my current REW environment is what I had 2 months back ( due to changing computers and also moving to Win10 from 8.1 ).

Oddly, I can no longer make this UMIK-1 mic not work ( no matter how hard I try ). I can't bring back the big red "X" .

It really seems the more I play around in the ASIO4ALL control panel / the more I clear out its cob-webs.

All-in-all, it's all a real head-scratcher but really quite academic since I usually use my Focusrite 2i2 soundcard with it's ASIO driver .

 

[Christoffer Griffin]

It didnt help trying to go through "check levels".

If I re-install sound-drviers then it works. Windows wil however upgrade these to the ones that doesnt work at the next possible moment.

I just re-installed again and did my measurements, build my subwoofer EQ and was done with what I needed for now in a single session.

I also dont get the red X on ther U-mic anymore but instead cant get the 8-channels to work unless I do a reinstall of the pre-october drivers.

 

[EarlK]

It didnt help trying to go through "check levels".

If I re-install sound-drviers then it works. Windows wil however upgrade these to the ones that doesnt work at the next possible moment.

I just re-installed again and did my measurements, build my subwoofer EQ and was done with what I needed for now in a single session.

I also dont get the red X on ther U-mic anymore but instead cant get the 8-channels to work unless I do a reinstall of the pre-october drivers.

Hi Christopher,

Were the sound drivers that you re-installed ( rolled back to ) the ones belonging to the Intel UHD Graphics 620 card ?

Which driver version are you currently using ?

 

[Christoffer Griffin]

It was the realtek driver i reinstalled. I dont remember what version sorry. Windows automatically installs the new one on its own after a while. I downloaded it from the realtek site and i think it was prior to october.

The scramble of the channels did have something to do with the intel driver i believe and fixed itself after another reboot. They seem connected using "hd-audio" or multichannel.

I got so frustrated that when it finally worked i just did what I needed and didnt bother fiddling more.

 

[chj]

In late arrival, but just in case it is helpful to others. We (HD SoundLab, creator of SoundPimp Audio Enhancer) did a revision of SoundPimp just recently. Like REW, SoundPimp is another java application using the so called JasioHost API that enables java to use ASIO instead of Java Audio Engine. (In fact, we in HD SoundLab once took the initiative to create JasioHost)

Apparently, the JasioHost API can no longer be used with JRE8 when running on later versions of WIndows10. To make things work, install the JDK11 from Oracle, or better, the JDK17 (as of January 2022) from Adoptopenjdk, because it is backwards compliant to JDK11. Now your umic and other audio input mechanisms and devices will work again.

I then assume that @John Mulcahy is compiling later versions of REW based on source Java11, at the minimum. It could be mandatory, but I am not 100 % sure on that. Confirm?

 

[John Mulcahy]

Apparently, the JasioHost API can no longer be used with JRE8 when running on later versions of WIndows10.

Do you have any more details on that? REW is built on JDK8, in part to allow REW to be used on older OS versions. REW's ASIO support is working on Win10 as far as I'm aware.

 

[chj]

Do you have any more details on that? REW is built on JDK8, in part to allow REW to be used on older OS versions. REW's ASIO support is working on Win10 as far as I'm aware.

I just observe in this thread, and in other threads that you provided links to, that people have/had mysterious trouble with their asio mic input. I have the same experience for a couple of years with SoundPimp, works fine with java audio engine, but not with any asio drivers. Note that SoundPimp picks up default audio stream, not mic, from a so called "virtual sound card", but is the same as seen from the operating system. I was lazy to not fix it before, but I did now, and after several days of study of behaviour on several Windows PCs, I started to display the jdk that SoundPimp was started on, on the soundpimp gui. Then I discovered that whenever version8 was included, asio did not work.

I cannot rule out that the reason was me using source compile compliance to 8, but when I tried to change to 11 (this week), I got problems. Then I discovered that jre8 problem, and now SoundPimp is working flawlessly on all the tested machines (3 Win10 machines of various age, one of them a macbook late 2013 running Windows. It is a better win machine than any of the original laptops destined for Win. No fan noise, for example). I am now compiling against JDK11 as it is the default in Android Studio now. (I then use Android Studio for both Android and pure Java. Android Studio I found to be much better than what I used before; Netbeans. Android Studio then uses groovy/gradle to build systems. No weaknesses observered for pure Java even if it is dedicated to Android by name.) And then AdoptOpenJdk17 is compliant with JDK11 based source. Problem solved.

FOR YOU TO TEST: I assume you have a modern JDK installed for your work, even if you are jre8 compliant. What happens if you install Oracles latest JRE8 and use ONLY that with REW in a version without embedded jre? Does REW+asio work on double-click start? (Soundpimp asio does not). Does it work when you start REW from Terminal, still using jre8? (SoundPimp asio works fine then, but I think I registered that the reason was that terminal used jdk11, not 100% sure, but fits the logic of this elaboration). It is the same with Android Studio, when running SoundPimp therein, asio works just fine, most probably because Android Studio has its own JDK11 that it uses. This Windows mic problem kind of looks similar to the security mechanisms that is now part of Big Sur on Mac. But it could also be the jre not updated for later Win versions. A little mystery.

Beyond that, I would say time has come to require that people has JDK11 or later installed, and if they do not, you have an installer with an embedded JDK, not? So you could offer that for those on old machines, I anticipate. After all, Oracles final version ever will be the current JRE8. So from my point of view, Oracle is offering the world an outdated Java JRE8, and should probably be notified of the lack of compliance to asio (and perhaps other similar issues). And the others, like AdoptOpen etc are now on 17. So for this particular problem, I need to refresh my installer instructions regarding Java version, or embedd a compliant variant in the app.

As to WHY jre8 does not work with WIN10 (I suspect for a couple of years now) for mics in particular, (but for everything else it is working fine,) I cannot tell. Because Windows do allow JREs and JDKs to access microphone. Windows list them as applications that has used microphone, once you have. So it is not logical, this error.

And that is another thing, that your customers must assert that they have enabled "allow apps to access microphone" in Windows10 settings. For some, it could be the reason mic does not work.

On Mac it is worse (in a security perspective: Better) because an app needs to be signed in order to access mic, and then the customer must manually allow it on top of that. I am unable to run SoundPimp at the moment on Mac, unless I start it from Terminal, as Terminal is signed. So I allow Terminal to access mic :-)

I will send you a private email on Mac and installers, as I have a question, and as that question is out of scope for this thread.

BTW, I use REW quite often, and while I have sometimes a little triouble with the setup process, I cannot remember having trouble with asio, but that was also a couple of years ago, since then I have migrated to Mac, also for REW. (I then have Bootcamp Windows on the same machine for dedicated Windows work. Super solution as both operating system runs in paralell. It is a question of 4 finger swiping to change from Mac os to Windows. But for dedicated Windows audio work, I need to start Windows alone. That was a digretion).

 

[John Mulcahy]

I'm only using JDK8. The installers bundle the Azul Zulu Java 8 runtime without Java FX.