REW 7.1 and Umik recognition with Java, ASIO4ALL or FlexASIO

BJB

New Member
Thread Starter
Joined
Mar 5, 2020
Messages
29
It was suggested that I also post this question here vs. my original forum. I have also received a lot of great help here.

I was excited to try the Java driver on my newer Win 11 laptop (Lenovo Yoga) especially after the fun I had with ASIO4ALL on my old Win10 laptop. Although I did get it to work when needed. Although the hassle really limited my desire to tweak.

With Java on windows 11 new laptop my umik shows fine and Denon shows twice:

DENON-AVRHD(HD Audio Driver for Display Audio) only gives me left and right and no channel mapping so no 7.1.

EXCL: DENON-AVRHD (HDaudio driver for Display Audio) gives me this error when selected: does not have any line supporting PCM_SIGNED48000 Hz. 32 bit 8 channels, 32bytes/frame. Try a different sample rate. Check that the sample rate of the default format in the windows audio properties for the device matches the REW sample rate.

I of course checked my settings and my Denon in windows is set to 24bit 48000HZ studio quality. 32 bit not an option. Not sure what else to try with Java?

Unfortunately Asio4all giving me issues too. Only driver that gives me 7.1 is "HD Audio Driver for Display Audio" (says 8 channel and eventually gives me the 8 channel selection dropdown)
but it also eventually gives me the exclamation error in the Asio settings box. Plus when I have gotten this to work for 7.1 for output for a minute, the Umik won't show up and can't be selected. I saw to increase the buffer to max for umik to show up and that didn't help. I also uninstalled and reinstalled REW. Turning all the drivers on in the asio box (of course not how to run it) , reloading and then just selecting the one I wanted sometimes brought the 7.1 back without the red exclamation....but no umik at all.

Umik always there in windows, receiver shows 7.1 in windows.

FlexAsio did give me the 8 channel output when I chose Denon in the flexasio panel. The input showed as Umik in the flex panel, but in REW showed as USB left and right input....and when it asked for a cal file I selected the same 90 degree narrow one from the rew folder of my calibrated umik usb as supplied. Then rew gave me an error "the cal file has a Sens factor entry but the input is not recognized USBmic. The Sens Factor entry will not be used....

Now if I could get the umik to work in flexasio or Asio4all, or Denon in Java.

Any help most appreciated.
Thanks,
BJB
 
Last edited:

John Mulcahy

REW Author
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
6,095
Is the output to the Denon also being used by Windows, e.g. as the default device? That might prevent REW getting access through WASAPI exclusive (the EXCL entry).
 

BJB

New Member
Thread Starter
Joined
Mar 5, 2020
Messages
29
Thanks,

Yes, the Denon was selected as the default (green check) although I didn't do it. The umik also for microphone.

Should I choose something else as the windows default for output and microphone?? Then try REW again?

I also have both exclusive mode boxes checked in windows for both. Leave that?
Should treat 32 bit as 24bit be checked in REW?

Thanks,
BJB
 

John Mulcahy

REW Author
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
6,095
It is best not to let Windows use your measurement devices as defaults. It tends to make any device that is plugged in the new default, unfortunately. Should be fine to leave the boxes for exclusive control selected. The box to treat 32-bit data as 24-bit should nearly always remain selected. It has no effect on what devices or drivers offer, it only tells REW how to treat data that is supplied in a 32-bit format, which is almost always 24-bit data padded out with zeroes.
 

BJB

New Member
Thread Starter
Joined
Mar 5, 2020
Messages
29
Sigh....now my receiver does not even appear in Windows. I use a J5 thunderbolt to hdmi adapter from my Lenovo Yoga. It was working.....now not. Do I recall there was a specific adapter brand that most had success with? This isn't even an audio issue....no hdmi connectivity, no image on TV connected to receiver either.
BJB
 

John Mulcahy

REW Author
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
6,095
Can't help with the adapter question, sorry.

Regarding this:
FlexAsio did give me the 8 channel output when I chose Denon in the flexasio panel. The input showed as Umik in the flex panel, but in REW showed as USB left and right input....and when it asked for a cal file I selected the same 90 degree narrow one from the rew folder of my calibrated umik usb as supplied. Then rew gave me an error "the cal file has a Sens factor entry but the input is not recognized USBmic. The Sens Factor entry will not be used....
That's a bug. Because FlexASIO uses generic names for its inputs REW needs to make some additional checks to recognise those inputs come from a USB mic. Those extra checks were missing in part of the code that verifies that if a cal file has a sensfactor entry the input is actually from a USB mic. I've fixed it for the next build.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AustinJerry and BJB

AustinJerry

Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2017
Messages
184
Sigh....now my receiver does not even appear in Windows. I use a J5 thunderbolt to hdmi adapter from my Lenovo Yoga. It was working.....now not. Do I recall there was a specific adapter brand that most had success with? This isn't even an audio issue....no hdmi connectivity, no image on TV connected to receiver either.
BJB

The fact that you are using a Thunderbolt adapter is new information not included in our previous discussions. I have no experience with adapters like that either.
 

BJB

New Member
Thread Starter
Joined
Mar 5, 2020
Messages
29
Thanks for planning to fix the FlexASIO issue. Appreciate all you do.

I tried a new adapter, different Denon input, and changed windows output default from AVR and switched from umik input default too. I setup the denon in windows as 7.1 although not sure if necessary using this method. Then fired up REW.

After that, Java did show all the output channels using the EXCL Denon entry and the multi channel button was there with all channels. I could choose all 7.1 channels in dropdown. And EXCL Umik showed up for input too! Also Denon showed multi channel input 7.1 on the front receiver screen display.Thought all was good! As a side note, PC sounds went through the laptop speakers at this point.

However when I played a test level pink noise signal or a sweep, I got no audio to the receiver/speakers. I tried a measurement sweep on fronts, surround, LFE....no sound. Output meter did not move when I chose play test signal. I may be missing a setting but have used REW before and never had this once the settings in config were solid. But never used Java before so maybe I missed or changed something?

Also, noticed the umik microphone REW input meters showed a pretty high level I think given no test signal? I don't remember it being -55DBfs "at rest" before but could be wrong.

Thanks,
BJB
 

BJB

New Member
Thread Starter
Joined
Mar 5, 2020
Messages
29
The fact that you are using a Thunderbolt adapter is new information not included in our previous discussions. I have no experience with adapters like that either.
Sorry about that. As it was making a connection had not even thought of it until I got no connectivity. With many newer laptops, and for sure Lenovo, USB-C is replacing HDMI. To be specific it is USB-C on a Lenovo Yoga windows 11 laptop. I use the adapter to connect to a monitor when needed,
Thanks,
BJB
 
Last edited:

John Mulcahy

REW Author
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
6,095
The UMIK input level may be affected by the Windows input volume control, and boosted if the volume control is at 100%. If you right click on the volume control in the Windows audio properties you can get it to read dB rather than percent and set it to 0 dB. The UMIK-1 input level at 0 dB input gain in a quiet environment is typically around -65 dBFS.

57078


Not having any level show up on the output meter is pretty odd, that would suggest REW isn't able to send data to the output.

Note that despite the cal file message FlexASIO can be used, though it is just a different way of accessing the same device so if there is a problem talking to the device it may not fare any better.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BJB

BJB

New Member
Thread Starter
Joined
Mar 5, 2020
Messages
29
The UMIK input level may be affected by the Windows input volume control, and boosted if the volume control is at 100%. If you right click on the volume control in the Windows audio properties you can get it to read dB rather than percent and set it to 0 dB. The UMIK-1 input level at 0 dB input gain in a quiet environment is typically around -65 dBFS.

View attachment 57078

Not having any level show up on the output meter is pretty odd, that would suggest REW isn't able to send data to the output.

Note that despite the cal file message FlexASIO can be used, though it is just a different way of accessing the same device so if there is a problem talking to the device it may not fare any better.
Thanks again for helping me out, changing defaults definitely allowed the 7.1 to show up. As to the microphone I had set it to db and set it to +9.4dB per the FAQ I was following so I will try it at zero.

As to ouput audio, I thought that was odd too. I will triple check the "level" in the windows tab for the Denon AVR and make sure that is at 100% but I thought I had read this really has no impact if you are using HDMI for the sweeps? Is there any windows volume setting that would impact the sweeps or test tones using HDMI in REW regardless of driver being used (java, ASIO4All or FlexASIO?

For Java should the "output" dropdown be on Master Volume? Just poking around looking to see what I might have changed while trying to get the 7.1 to work.

I guess I can also try any of the other methods (ASIO4ALL, FlexASIO and Java with a non-exclusive EXCL device) even if not getting all 7.1 channels to see if they give me audio? It is odd as this is a basic Windows 11 laptop so can't imagine what might be causing it. And I know I mentioned the adapter but that is upstream of the internal laptop audio I think. And if the receiver recognizes 7.1 not a receiver setting. Strange....


Thanks again,
BJB
 

AustinJerry

Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2017
Messages
184
FWIW, I tried for the first time using the new Java driver capabilities on my main-stream Acer laptop, which has a native HDMI port. In REW, I was able to select my processor, a Monolith HTP-1, as well as my UMIK-1. I was able to select any of the 7.1 channels and get a measurement sweep as well as a timing reference tone. I was using the same settings in Windows Audio as I have been using for the ASIO drivers. Unfortunately, I would conclude that you still have a hardware issue, perhaps with the converter.

Channel Mapping
Measure
 
  • Like
Reactions: BJB and EarlK

BJB

New Member
Thread Starter
Joined
Mar 5, 2020
Messages
29
FWIW, I tried for the first time using the new Java driver capabilities on my main-stream Acer laptop, which has a native HDMI port. In REW, I was able to select my processor, a Monolith HTP-1, as well as my UMIK-1. I was able to select any of the 7.1 channels and get a measurement sweep as well as a timing reference tone. I was using the same settings in Windows Audio as I have been using for the ASIO drivers. Unfortunately, I would conclude that you still have a hardware issue, perhaps with the converter.

View attachment 57091 View attachment 57092
@AustinJerry, thanks for the followup! I so appreciate your guide and help and doing this testing.

I will of course defer to the experts but since the USB-C to HDMI converter is on the output side of the PC (essentially the end of the USB-C cable) my thought was that should not stop REW from generating signal internally to the PC but who knows......I do know I have read many people successfully use these converters with REW. I will have to double check all the settings I messed around with trying to get this to work and make sure I did not do something. Or may just uninstall and reinstall so I am at defaults. If I was on a mixer it would be the "mute all" button!

O well, I may have to crank up my old Windows 10 laptop, give it a day to boot and go back to that as it has good old- fashioned HDMI. Haven't tried the Java version on that one. :)

Have a great Thanskgiving!
BJBBJB
 
  • Like
Reactions: AustinJerry

sam_adams

Member
Joined
May 23, 2017
Messages
200
I will of course defer to the experts but since the USB-C to HDMI converter is on the output side of the PC (essentially the end of the USB-C cable) my thought was that should not stop REW from generating signal internally to the PC but who knows.

This Lenovo adapter works with Win 10 and Win 11. It works on Macs, also.

https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/so...to-hdmi-20b-adapter-overview-and-sevice-parts

https://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-USB-C-HDMI-Adapter-Cable/dp/B07NBY4BQT

If you are having issues with connection to the Denon; are you using the front AUX input? Try using one of the inputs on the back of the AVR.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BJB

AustinJerry

Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2017
Messages
184
This Lenovo adapter works with Win 10 and Win 11. It works on Macs, also.

https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/so...to-hdmi-20b-adapter-overview-and-sevice-parts

https://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-USB-C-HDMI-Adapter-Cable/dp/B07NBY4BQT

If you are having issues with connection to the Denon; are you using the front AUX input? Try using one of the inputs on the back of the AVR.

I second the recommendation to try one of the rear panel HDMI connectors. I could never get the front panel HDMI connector to work when I had a Denon.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BJB

BJB

New Member
Thread Starter
Joined
Mar 5, 2020
Messages
29
This Lenovo adapter works with Win 10 and Win 11. It works on Macs, also.

https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/so...to-hdmi-20b-adapter-overview-and-sevice-parts

https://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-USB-C-HDMI-Adapter-Cable/dp/B07NBY4BQT

If you are having issues with connection to the Denon; are you using the front AUX input? Try using one of the inputs on the back of the AVR.
Thanks! I am using a rear HDMI port. Today I played an audio file on the laptop and it played fine through the receiver to the mains. Windows sounds do also. Under the windows "apps"sound section the output is the AVR. The laptop in windows and REW "sees" the AVR as a 7.1 device but won't play the sweeps. The AVR sees the laptop as sending 7,1 as the display confirms 7.1 input.

If someone has gotten that specific adapter to work with a Yoga on Windows 11 I will give it a shot and be Thankful!
Thanks again to all. I love REW and hope to get it working on my new laptop vs. slogging along on my old slow one.

BJBBJB
 

EarlK

Member
Joined
May 22, 2017
Messages
221
Pursuing the hardware angle as the source of the problem, here is something a bit disturbing;

Lenovo USB C partial implementation


This ( screen-grab ) is taken from the previously posted link for the Lenovo adapter.

I didn't realize that a computer maker would market a product with such crippled audio capabilities ( if true ) Clearly I haven't bought a new computer in a while .

:)
 
Last edited:

sam_adams

Member
Joined
May 23, 2017
Messages
200
Pursuing the hardware angle as the source of the problem, here is something a bit disturbing;

Amazon reviews and questions are hardly a reliable source of information—especially when another 'answer' is contradictory:

57146


I didn't realize that a computer maker would market a product with such crippled audio capabilities

It's not 'crippled'. The linked adapter is DisplayPort 1.2 compatible. The device in the question on the Amazon page supports DisplayPort 1.2 on the USB-C ports. It is impossible to know if the replying individual was an actual owner of a Lenovo device or a vendor trying to steer people to their own product.

If someone has gotten that specific adapter to work with a Yoga on Windows 11

Concerns about compatibility can be addressed by checking the Lenovo Accessories and Options Compatibility Matrix (OCM). You can download the Excel spreadsheet and search for your laptop's 'Type:' number. The adapter, Marketing Sales Part Number: 4X90R61022, is what you will be looking for.
 
  • Like
Reactions: EarlK

BJB

New Member
Thread Starter
Joined
Mar 5, 2020
Messages
29
Thanks for all the help and suggestions. This forum is great.

The Yoga mentioned above is not the model I have. Mine has and passes at least 2 channel audio as I can hear windows sounds. Before I bought the Yoga I swore I saw a thread of someone successfully using an adapter he mentioned with REW but now I cannot locate it.

I will report back when I get and try the Lenovo adapter.

If this doesn't work I will just go back to using my old Windows 10 laptop with HDMI that worked.

Thanks,
BJB
 

EarlK

Member
Joined
May 22, 2017
Messages
221
Thanks for all the help and suggestions. This forum is great.

The Yoga mentioned above is not the model I have. Mine has and passes at least 2 channel audio as I can hear windows sounds. Before I bought the Yoga I swore I saw a thread of someone successfully using an adapter he mentioned with REW but now I cannot locate it.

I will report back when I get and try the Lenovo adapter.

If this doesn't work I will just go back to using my old Windows 10 laptop with HDMI that worked.

Thanks,
BJB
@BJB


Links to your exact Lenovo Yoga model ( as well as your J5 Thunderbolt to HDMI adapter ) would be very helpful to those of us looking for hardware based problems ( on your behalf ) .

For instance, the following feature set ( in the following pic ) taken from a Yoga 6?? model Owners Manual, seems to imply ( to me at least ) that it wouldn't support multichannel audio on either of its 2, USB-C ports.

L13 Gen 2 L13 Yoga Gen 2 S2 Gen 6 and S2 Yoga Gen 6 AMD



As opposed to the following Yoga model, which implies support for multichannel audio on at least one ( of 2 ) USB-C ports .

L13 Gen 2 L13 Yoga Gen 2 S2 Gen 6 and S2 Yoga Gen 6 Intel


:)
 
Last edited:

BJB

New Member
Thread Starter
Joined
Mar 5, 2020
Messages
29
Thanks again for all the help. I am no longer using that other adapter as I memtioned and it was bought locally. I purchased the Lenovo adapter and it will arrive shortly and will then test. Specifically this one:
Lenovo USB C to HDMI 2.0b Adapter https://a.co/d/25bWaa9

I have a Lenovo Yoga 7 15 model 82BJ007QUS. Here are the specs: https://psref.lenovo.com/Detail/Yoga/Yoga_7_15ITL5?M=82BJ007QUS

I pulled up the user manual (identified by Lenovo website by my serial number) and it says that the ports are Thunderbolt 4 connectors supporting Displayport 1.4. Displayport 1.4 can pass uncompressed 7.1 192Hz/24-bit audio to up to four displays. See attached. It does not callout the audio, just DP 1.4.

However as memtioned above, even if there was an issue with the last adapter, it connected to the receiver as 7.1, the pc said that as did the receiver. If the laptop did not support 7.1 I am not sure it would negotiate that type of connection?

As a final data point, I recalled that I was able to tone test each 7.1 speakers discretely from the laptop windows speaker setup to the receiver. L/C/R left and right surround, left and right back and sub. It played test tones to each and allowed me to choose 7.1 and the receiver showed multi channel input on its display as noted above. Using the gaming rear HDMI port on the Denon X6400H. When I memtioned stereo above I was thinking that the windows volume control binged thru speakers. I had done that initial 7.1 windows speakers setup so long ago (first time I ever tried connecting) did not even think of that as was focused on REW settings.

I still wonder if there is user error on my part with all my futzing around to get things to work causing windows to output 7.1 audio but not REW.

The help is most appreciated. Reminding myself I like tech
BJB
 

Attachments

  • Yoga ports.jpg
    Yoga ports.jpg
    53.5 KB · Views: 3
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: EarlK

EarlK

Member
Joined
May 22, 2017
Messages
221
@BJB

Thanks for all the info!

The stats for your computer's USB-C ports do indicate that the ports capabilities are not the problem ( also the fact that you had used the computers internal test function to discreetly send signal to each of the 7.1 speakers indicates your wiring >> plumbing actually works )..

It is strange that REW negotiates a 7.1 setup but then fails when it comes time to deliver the audio signal.

Hopefully your experience isn't a wider indication ( as an early adopter ) that "WASAPI exclusive" fails when multi-channel is routed through USB-C adapters.

:)
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: BJB
Top Bottom