Onkyo, Pioneer Elite, and Integra Deep Dive: A Fresh Look at the Brands’ Latest AV Receivers

full?d=1614823928.jpg

(March 3, 2021) The road to 2021 has been bumpy for Onkyo Corporation and its associated brands (Onkyo, Integra, Pioneer, and Pioneer Elite). Rewind two years, and the company was on the cusp of being acquired by Sound United, a deal that would have positioned all four brands alongside the likes of Marantz, Denon, and Classe'. And if 2020's international COVID crisis wasn't rough enough, Onkyo made the difficult decision to shutter its US distribution subsidiary, ultimately agreeing to sell its distribution assets to a new name in the game.

Now, following months of silence, rumors, and speculation, Onkyo and Pioneer have officially re-emerged behind the strength of its new US-based distributor, 11 Trading Company, and the solid foundation of a deeper business relationship. To help make sense of that relationship's structure, here's a quick breakdown of the companies involved and how they're related: 11 Trading Company is a subsidiary of Klipsch, and Klipsch is owned by Voxx. Onkyo and Voxx have a healthy history born from an arrangement that empowers Onkyo to distribute Klipsch products in Japan. Thus, both companies' natural move was to expand their alliance by reversing that arrangement in the North American market. That's how 11 Trading Company entered the picture; they were created to lead the charge.

I recently had an opportunity to chat with 11 Trading Company's Rolf Hawkins (Product Manager) and Mike Bohner (Digital Marketing Manager), and the conversation was teeming with positive energy and optimism. Hawkins, an industry veteran with a background that includes work on Pioneer's legendary Kuro plasma TVs, is tasked with guiding the development of next-gen Onkyo and Pioneer AV receivers. Both he and Bohner say all systems are primed and ready to launch Onkyo Corporation back into the conversation.

The best news born from the discussion is that Onkyo and Pioneer are alive and well. In fact, it's safe to say a forward-thinking team of designers has reinvigorated both brands. As Hawkins eluded, the end goal has been to craft a new line of receivers loaded with features to competitively satisfy customer and integrator demands (such as a web-based user interface) while making sure the latest and greatest in audio and video technologies are accommodated. This, of course, is extremely exciting, especially considering the pedigree each brand brings to the table.

Pioneer's rich past includes ushering Class D amplification into mainstream popularity. Nearly 14 years ago, it joined forces with THX to evaluate Class D designs, hoping to make chassis more compact, discover higher output capabilities, and improve fidelity. THX ultimately identified areas needing improvement, including frequency response, distortion, and noise, which led to a solution-seeking collaboration between Pioneer and ICEpower. The resulting 2008 class of Pioneer Elite receivers became the first THX Certified products to feature Class D technology.

On the other hand, Onkyo is a revered brand known for honest power specs and extremely competent performance. And, of course, it's a name that was closely tied to Audyssey's popular room correction solutions. That powerful – arguably crucial – Audyssey relationship came to an end in 2014 when Onkyo introduced its own proprietary solution called AccuEQ. In many ways, that move best captures how Onkyo (and Pioneer, with its MCACC room correction) began two lose luster in the eyes of hardcore home theater enthusiasts. Despite excellent technologies and amp performance, competing brands offered correction solutions that were viewed as better options.
full?d=1614821588.png
Fast forward to September 2020, and AV NIRVANA reported a newly formed relationship between Onkyo, Pioneer, and Dirac Research. Dirac, one of the heaviest hitters in the room correction biz, is fresh off releasing its latest software (Dirac Live 2.0) designed to be more user-friendly and capable of accepting add-on modules (like Bass Control) as they become available.

This isn't the first time Dirac has been linked to one or the other brand, which left some wondering if Onkyo's announcement was destined to crash. But, we're here to attest: it's real. As of now, we can only confirm the inclusion of Dirac Live on the majority of Onkyo, Elite, and Integra 2021 models; however, Dirac's Bass Control module might be part of the deal. That's a wait-and-see detail. More on that, soon.

After combing through specifications for Onkyo, Integra, and Pioneer Elite's latest, it appears that two of three Elite models, two of three Integra models, and two of four Onkyo models will support Dirac Live. Those models lacking support will feature MCACC or AccuEQ and some combination of subwoofer, phase control, and immersive sound EQ.

From a manufacturing perspective, the inclusion of licensed technology on mid- to higher-end models makes perfect sense. And, from an enthusiast's perspective, the ability to access Dirac capabilities at price points hovering around $1,000 is extremely attractive. This is a huge win for consumers because it opens the door to more options on the market, and the fact they're well-regarded brands is a major plus.

The other exciting inclusion is true HDMI 2.1 performance. 2.1 allows for 4K/120Hz and 8K video, an advanced gaming experience (think Variable Refresh Rate, Auto Low Latency Mode, and Quick Frame Transport), and support for features such as Enhanced Audio Return Channel. More importantly, Hawkins says the HDMI 2.1 chipset used in 2021 Onkyo, Integra, and Elite models will not suffer from the same bug weighing down brands that sourced Panasonic HDMI 2.1 chipsets for the 2020 model year. For a full breakdown of HDMI 2.1 input/output availability across all models, click here.

Physically speaking, 2021's crop of Pioneer Elite receivers looks nearly identical to its last model run of LX-xx4 gear. Each model has a gorgeous brushed aluminum front panel with robust volume and selector knobs, a bottom flip-down cover that conceals inputs and buttons, and Pioneer's classic orange display. Fans of the brand will be quick to note a refreshed remote control design, which is more simplified than past Elite remotes.

The VSX-LX505 (Projected-Minimum Advertised Price $1199) is Elite's flagship model, boasting 9.2-channel Class AB performance (120 watts per channel, 8 ohms, 2ch driven) with 11.2-channels of processing for 7.2.4 immersive sound when paired with an outboard amp. It's fully compatible with IMAX Enhanced, Dolby Atmos, DTS:X, legacy codecs, and associated upmixers. It also offers compatibility with a wide array of Hi-Res audio files. On the video front, the LX505 is HDR10+ and Dolby Vision-friendly, delivers HD upscaling (1080p to 4K/8K and 4K to 8K), and houses seven HDMI inputs and two outputs. Interestingly, Elite now offers access to DTS Play-Fi and Chromecast built-in, along with Apple AirPlay 2, Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, and support of most mainstream music services (including Amazon HD, Spotify, TIDAL, and Sonos systems). And if voice control suits your fancy, it's compatible with both Alexa and Google voice control, too.

The only notable and confirmed omission from the LX-505 is support for Auro-3D (this holds true for other Elite models as well as Onkyo/Integra's new AVRs). You might also notice that mentions of MQA and Qobuz are absent. Here's where things stand on both of those fronts: MQA is currently supported on the Pioneer Elite SX-N30 (no longer available in the US), Onkyo's TX-8260 and TX-8270, and Integra's DTM-6 and DTM-7. While each of those legacy receivers is a 2-channel model, there remains a possibility that native MQA support will find its way to some 2021 multi-channel models. As for Qobuz, built-in support isn't offered, but owners can stream Qobuz to any 2021 Elite, Onkyo, or Integra receiver via DTS Play-Fi and its Hi-Res capable Critical Listening Mode. To simplify the experience, this mode can be accessed using the free Pioneer and Onkyo Music Control apps (Apple and Android).

The VSX-LX305 (P-MAP $999) is also a 9.2-channel receiver loaded with most of the same capabilities as the LX505, minus the additional 2-channels of processing and a 100 watts per channel amp section. And the VSX-LX105 slides in for $300 less (P-MAP $699), with 7.2-channels of performance and the promise of 100 watts per channel (8 ohms, 2ch driven). Unlike the LX505 and LX305, the LX105 doesn't offer Dirac Live, slotting MCACC with Phase Control and Subwoofer EQ in its place.

All three Elite models feature advanced custom integration tools, including remote access to system information, web UI set-up, and compatibility with a broad array of integration partners.

full?d=1614821686.png
Onkyo's four-model lineup starts with the 7.2 channel TX-NR5100 (P-MAP $499) and ends with the 9.2-channel TX-RZ50 (P-MAP $1099). The TX-RZ50, much like the 9.2-channel TX-NR7100 (P-MAP $899) and 7.2-channel TX-NR6100 (P-MAP $699), is THX Select Certified and loaded to the brim with onboard support for the same immersive sound and streaming capabilities found on Elite's gear (including DTS Play-Fi and Chromecast built-in). It boasts a beefy 120 watts per channel (8 ohms, 2ch driven) and a wide frequency response (5Hz to 100kHz), drawing power from Dynamic Audio Amplification (DAA) RZ Series technology.

If your goal is to deploy a 7.2.4 system, the TX-RZ50 can process up to 11.2 channels with multichannel pre-outs for 11.2 playback. It's also HDR 10+ and Dolby Vision compatible.

The NR6100 and NR7100 are similarly equipped but carry lesser amplifier capabilities (100 watts per channel, 8 ohms, 2ch driven) and lack additional channel processing and multichannel pre-outs. In comparison, the NR5100 uses discrete 2-stage power amplifier circuitry to deliver 80 watts per channel. The NR5100 and NR6100 are devoid of Dirac, favoring AccuEQ Room Acoustic Calibration with AccuReflex phase correction and subwoofer EQ instead.

Style-wise, all four Onkyo receivers drip with Onkyo's tell-tale physical features and – not surprisingly – utilize a remote control identical to that of Elite.

Lastly, the integrator-friendly Integra lineup is burdened with the largest projected price tags, with the 9.2-channel DRX-5.4 commanding $1,900 P-MAP. With physical features looking similar to past models, its three new models are similarly equipped to Onkyo's best offerings, with the addition of key custom integration features. Those features include set-up and IP control via a web browser, a dealer settings memory/recall function, and compatibility with Crestron, Control4, Savant, URC, ELAN, and RTI automation.

Pricing for the 9.2-channel DRX3.4 and 7.2-channel DRX-2.4 is $1200 P-MAP and $800 P-MAP, respectively.

That leaves us with Pioneer's non-Elite branded gear, which is notably missing from action. There's an outside shot we might have some model news to share later this year, but Pioneer is holding its cards close to its chest. As for Onkyo, Integra, and Elite, we'll likely see a three-tier rollout during 2021, with the third phase happening closer to the August/September timeframe. According to Hawkins, nothing is set in stone (yet), but 11 Trading Company is close to finalizing a launch schedule.

With pricing ranging from $899 to $1,199, all four of the Elite and Onkyo top-end models are positioned to be highly competitive. The additions of Dirac, Play-Fi, Chromecast built-in, IMAX Enhanced, and true HDMI 2.1 performance are just a few of this group's highlights. While I predict Onkyo's TX-NR7100 and TX-RZ50 receivers will prove to be the most popular of the bunch, there's plenty of positives when considering the entire line's budget-oriented options. Elite's VSX-LX105 (P-MAP $699) is also one to keep your eye on, particularly because of its healthy amp section.



Additional Photos

Elite VSX-505
full?d=1614820471.jpg


full?d=1617398359.jpg



Elite VSX-305
full?d=1614820471.jpg


full?d=1617398358.jpg



Elite VSX-105
full?d=1614820471.jpg


full?d=1617398358.jpg





Onkyo TX-RZ50
full?d=1614820283.jpg


full?d=1617398358.jpg



Onkyo TX-NR7100
full?d=1614816138.jpg



full?d=1617398358.jpg



Onkyo TX-NR6100
full?d=1614816138.jpg


full?d=1617398358.jpg



Onkyo TX-NR5100
full?d=1614816138.jpg


full?d=1614816138.jpg





Integra DRX-5.4
full?d=1614820827.jpg


full?d=1617398358.jpg



Integra DRX-3.4
full?d=1614820827.jpg


full?d=1617398358.jpg



Integra DRX-2.4
full?d=1614820828.jpg


full?d=1617398358.jpg


 
Last edited:

Gustaaf

Registered
Joined
Apr 6, 2021
Messages
6
Location
Rotterdam
More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
Denon AVC-X3700H
Front Speakers
JBL E50
Center Channel Speaker
JBL SCS55
Surround Speakers
JBL L810
Surround Back Speakers
JBL 810
Subwoofers
JBL E250P
@Gustaaf As for your Dolby question, PL IIZ is supported by Dolby Surround (which the receiver has).
On the Denon I tested, DSU does not deliver the 'old' PLII experience and has far less setup possibilities. I get the same as already years ago stated by Roger Dressler at the neighbours, avsforum.com/forum/19-dedicated-theater-design-construction/1179128-deadwood-theater-comes-alive-7.html#post29237489 . I definitely like Atmos for movies, so maybe 2 avr's and a speaker selector switch is an option. The search continues...
 

Todd Anderson

Editor / Senior Admin
Staff member
Thread Starter
Joined
Jan 20, 2017
Messages
9,267
Location
Balt/Wash Metro
More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
StormAudio ISP.24 MK2
Main Amp
Emotiva XPA-5
Additional Amp
Emotiva XPA Gen3 2.8 multichannel amp
Other Amp
Denon X8500H
Computer Audio
AudioEngine A2+
DAC
THX ONYX
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
Kaleidescape TERRA, OPPO UDP-203, Panasonic UB9000
Front Speakers
GoldenEar Technology Triton One.R
Center Channel Speaker
GoldenEar Technology SuperCenter Reference
Surround Speakers
SVS Ultra Surround
Surround Back Speakers
SVS Ultra Bookshelf
Front Height Speakers
SVS Prime Elevation x4 (Top Front, Top Mid-Front)
Rear Height Speakers
SVS Prime Elevation x4 (Top Middle, Top Rear)
Subwoofers
dual SVS SB16s + dual PSA XS30s
Other Speakers or Equipment
Behringer 1124p; Aura Bass Shaker Pros; SuperSub X
Video Display Device
JVC NX7
Screen
Seymour Screen Excellence, Enlightor NEO AT Screen
Streaming Equipment
iFi Audio Zen Blue
Streaming Subscriptions
Qobuz, TIDAL, Spotify, ROON
Other Equipment
LG Electronics 65-inch B6 OLED, Sony 65-inch X900F, ZeroSurge 8R15W x 2, ZeroSurge 2R15W x 2
Are you sure the proper layout had been selected within the amp configuration menu settings? That's where front height speakers can be engaged... and Dolby Surround would then playback using those speakers as front height.
 

Gustaaf

Registered
Joined
Apr 6, 2021
Messages
6
Location
Rotterdam
More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
Denon AVC-X3700H
Front Speakers
JBL E50
Center Channel Speaker
JBL SCS55
Surround Speakers
JBL L810
Surround Back Speakers
JBL 810
Subwoofers
JBL E250P
No front height speakers, I listened with the PLIIX Music setting in a regular 7.1 setup at ear level. And that was surely setup properly, the Denon has a very nice, easy setup, but apart from that I checked, double checked and tried extensively all kind of settings. At the end it sounded quite good, just that last mile that makes all the difference was missing.
For Atmos I would add 4 in ceilings. Maybe then it would all come together and DSU would do the thing for me? Haven't tried that yet.
 

Todd Anderson

Editor / Senior Admin
Staff member
Thread Starter
Joined
Jan 20, 2017
Messages
9,267
Location
Balt/Wash Metro
More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
StormAudio ISP.24 MK2
Main Amp
Emotiva XPA-5
Additional Amp
Emotiva XPA Gen3 2.8 multichannel amp
Other Amp
Denon X8500H
Computer Audio
AudioEngine A2+
DAC
THX ONYX
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
Kaleidescape TERRA, OPPO UDP-203, Panasonic UB9000
Front Speakers
GoldenEar Technology Triton One.R
Center Channel Speaker
GoldenEar Technology SuperCenter Reference
Surround Speakers
SVS Ultra Surround
Surround Back Speakers
SVS Ultra Bookshelf
Front Height Speakers
SVS Prime Elevation x4 (Top Front, Top Mid-Front)
Rear Height Speakers
SVS Prime Elevation x4 (Top Middle, Top Rear)
Subwoofers
dual SVS SB16s + dual PSA XS30s
Other Speakers or Equipment
Behringer 1124p; Aura Bass Shaker Pros; SuperSub X
Video Display Device
JVC NX7
Screen
Seymour Screen Excellence, Enlightor NEO AT Screen
Streaming Equipment
iFi Audio Zen Blue
Streaming Subscriptions
Qobuz, TIDAL, Spotify, ROON
Other Equipment
LG Electronics 65-inch B6 OLED, Sony 65-inch X900F, ZeroSurge 8R15W x 2, ZeroSurge 2R15W x 2
Dolby Pro Logic IIz requires this speaker arrangement (image from Dolby)...
41026


Those two front height channels are required.

If you were using a straight 7.1 channel system with 3 front, 2 surrounds, and 2 back surrounds... your receiver was probably sending the height channel information to your 2 back surround channels.
 

Gustaaf

Registered
Joined
Apr 6, 2021
Messages
6
Location
Rotterdam
More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
Denon AVC-X3700H
Front Speakers
JBL E50
Center Channel Speaker
JBL SCS55
Surround Speakers
JBL L810
Surround Back Speakers
JBL 810
Subwoofers
JBL E250P
Todd, we have a miscommunication here, its not PLIIZ I want but PLIIX. That is without the height speakers. For PLIIZ I think your'e totally right. My setup is like the picture below.

41028
 

Todd Anderson

Editor / Senior Admin
Staff member
Thread Starter
Joined
Jan 20, 2017
Messages
9,267
Location
Balt/Wash Metro
More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
StormAudio ISP.24 MK2
Main Amp
Emotiva XPA-5
Additional Amp
Emotiva XPA Gen3 2.8 multichannel amp
Other Amp
Denon X8500H
Computer Audio
AudioEngine A2+
DAC
THX ONYX
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
Kaleidescape TERRA, OPPO UDP-203, Panasonic UB9000
Front Speakers
GoldenEar Technology Triton One.R
Center Channel Speaker
GoldenEar Technology SuperCenter Reference
Surround Speakers
SVS Ultra Surround
Surround Back Speakers
SVS Ultra Bookshelf
Front Height Speakers
SVS Prime Elevation x4 (Top Front, Top Mid-Front)
Rear Height Speakers
SVS Prime Elevation x4 (Top Middle, Top Rear)
Subwoofers
dual SVS SB16s + dual PSA XS30s
Other Speakers or Equipment
Behringer 1124p; Aura Bass Shaker Pros; SuperSub X
Video Display Device
JVC NX7
Screen
Seymour Screen Excellence, Enlightor NEO AT Screen
Streaming Equipment
iFi Audio Zen Blue
Streaming Subscriptions
Qobuz, TIDAL, Spotify, ROON
Other Equipment
LG Electronics 65-inch B6 OLED, Sony 65-inch X900F, ZeroSurge 8R15W x 2, ZeroSurge 2R15W x 2
Todd, we have a miscommunication here, its not PLIIZ I want but PLIIX. That is without the height speakers. For PLIIZ I think your'e totally right. My setup is like the picture below.

View attachment 41028

We're talking about ancient technologies... not that you can't enjoy it on old gear (you can :T)... but PLIIX was released when folks began expanding from 5.1 to 7.1. Like PLII, its intent was to expand 2-channel tracks into a multi-channel experience, with the benefit of also expanding 5.1 sound into 7.1 sound. That technology, along with the other Pro Logic iterations, has been wrapped into Dolby Surround. I don't think you're going to find a modern receiver that lists PLIIX as an available option (although, I have specifically looked for it...)
 

Gustaaf

Registered
Joined
Apr 6, 2021
Messages
6
Location
Rotterdam
More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
Denon AVC-X3700H
Front Speakers
JBL E50
Center Channel Speaker
JBL SCS55
Surround Speakers
JBL L810
Surround Back Speakers
JBL 810
Subwoofers
JBL E250P
We're talking about ancient technologies... not that you can't enjoy it on old gear (you can :T)... but PLIIX was released when folks began expanding from 5.1 to 7.1. Like PLII, its intent was to expand 2-channel tracks into a multi-channel experience, with the benefit of also expanding 5.1 sound into 7.1 sound. That technology, along with the other Pro Logic iterations, has been wrapped into Dolby Surround. I don't think you're going to find a modern receiver that lists PLIIX as an available option (although, I have specifically looked for it...)
:greengrin: if 10 years old is already ancient...:surrender:Ok, I'll admit, in this field that's old. But while embracing new friends, let's cherish the old ones, look at vinyl and tube amps! Newer isn't always better. And with wrapping everything into Dolby Surround imo it's to simplified. Putting it all under the great common denominator leaves too little room for tweaking to personal taste. Thanks though for looking with me into this matter!, I appreciate it very much. Been looking for month's now but also can't find a modern receiver with PLIIX :frown:. That's why I joined this thread, in the hope that your dear friend at Onkyo's would bring this feature back :cool: It's not just me, searching the internet, a whole lot of 2-CH upmixers would love to have that feature again! It can't be a license thing, it's all in one hand so just do us the little favoure :praying:
 

symphara

Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2021
Messages
24
:greengrin: if 10 years old is already ancient...:surrender:Ok, I'll admit, in this field that's old. But while embracing new friends, let's cherish the old ones, look at vinyl and tube amps! Newer isn't always better. And with wrapping everything into Dolby Surround imo it's to simplified. Putting it all under the great common denominator leaves too little room for tweaking to personal taste. Thanks though for looking with me into this matter!, I appreciate it very much. Been looking for month's now but also can't find a modern receiver with PLIIX :frown:. That's why I joined this thread, in the hope that your dear friend at Onkyo's would bring this feature back :cool: It's not just me, searching the internet, a whole lot of 2-CH upmixers would love to have that feature again! It can't be a license thing, it's all in one hand so just do us the little favoure :praying:
I'm confused, what does PLIIx do that Dolby Surround doesn't do? I think that PLIIx upmixes to 5.1 or 7.1. Dolby Surround does that too.
 

Gustaaf

Registered
Joined
Apr 6, 2021
Messages
6
Location
Rotterdam
More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
Denon AVC-X3700H
Front Speakers
JBL E50
Center Channel Speaker
JBL SCS55
Surround Speakers
JBL L810
Surround Back Speakers
JBL 810
Subwoofers
JBL E250P
I'm confused, what does PLIIx do that Dolby Surround doesn't do? I think that PLIIx upmixes to 5.1 or 7.1. Dolby Surround does that too.

Certainly, but Neural:X and Auro-3D too and they all sound very different. Just a matter of taste I guess. To me on DSU I get too much instruments/vocals in the surrounds and also a bit of artificial, flattening sound flavour. With PLIIX Music the space just feels bigger, with the artist keeping in front and on the Onkyo it sounded very spacious and clear. Keep in mind that I only have tested it on the Denon X3700H so far! With a lot of tweaking it became more to my taste, but that affects everything. It's hard too explain, certainly in English. Roger Dressler does a better job but I don't know if it's allowed to quote him here? It's quite a lump of text and maybe I'm the only one here interested in this matter anyway.
 

symphara

Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2021
Messages
24
Certainly, but Neural:X and Auro-3D too and they all sound very different. Just a matter of taste I guess. To me on DSU I get too much instruments/vocals in the surrounds and also a bit of artificial, flattening sound flavour. With PLIIX Music the space just feels bigger, with the artist keeping in front and on the Onkyo it sounded very spacious and clear. Keep in mind that I only have tested it on the Denon X3700H so far! With a lot of tweaking it became more to my taste, but that affects everything. It's hard too explain, certainly in English. Roger Dressler does a better job but I don't know if it's allowed to quote him here? It's quite a lump of text and maybe I'm the only one here interested in this matter anyway.
Fair enough. I wouldn’t dream of listening to DSU music on my main system, so I have basically no experience with it. I do sometimes engage PLII Music (not sure about the version) on my PC’s 5.1 Logitech surround system, but the effect is very subtle.
 

NismoZ

Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2021
Messages
10
@Todd Anderson, thank you for taking your time to get in contact with Pioneers reps on the new models. It's certainly an exciting time, as many of us thought it was the end for Onkyo/Pioneer.

As far as the new models from Pioneer, its a simple thing, but it means a lot to me that Pioneer is keeping the front display the same. The new Yamaha display is a terrible step down in the quality department with the entire screen backlit and to not offering the channel display on the front. I also like that Pioneer kept the classic front physical appearance as well and did not make a drastic design change like Yamaha has done. These things together with working HDMI 2.1 ports and new DIRAC room calibration should likely be a hit.

I am coming from the first class D offering from Pioneer, the SC-07! Its still going strong after 12 years in my HT! In 2019 I upgraded to the LG C9 OLED and have a Series X. Only using optical from TV to the old SC-07 since there is no ARC or eARC there. I've been waiting patiently (with no high res audio and only using Dolby Digital) for a couple years now for an AVR with correct HDMI 2.1. Was about to go with the new Yamaha Aventage line before I saw these coming out, as I've never been a fan of Denon. The issues with the 2020 AVRs has delayed my purchases farther.

To the folks who are wondering about the would be SC-LX 705/905 class D line, Pioneer usually releases those in the next year after the VSX-LX class AB drops. So, if Pioneer was electing to continue that trend, then you would see the class D SC-LX 705/905 in late 2022. However, @Todd Anderson seems to have confirmed that Pioneer is skipping those this time around. It's very puzzling, since Pioneer/Onkyo/Integra needs an AVR with 11 and 13 channels onboard since Yamaha and Denon have those higher end AVRs. Hopefully they are telling Todd a straight answer and not just trying to steer customers to this years lineup for immediate sales. @Todd Anderson, would you be willing to ask them a more direct question of if they might have a SC-LX705/905, 11 and 13 channel, Class D offerings in 2022? Or are they for sure staying with Class AB if they drop a 11 and 13 channel AVR in 2022?

And if Pioneer is listening, like the previous poster, I would also be interested in a demonstration of the new AVRs correctly passing HDMI 2.1 features, especially VRR. And proof that 4k/120 and 8k/60 hdmi bug is not an issue.
 
Last edited:

Head_Unit

New Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2020
Messages
26
More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
Denon AVR-X3600H
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
Oppo UDP-203
Front Speakers
Focal 936
Center Channel Speaker
Focal CC900
Surround Speakers
Focal SR900
Subwoofers
SVS SB-2000 Pro
Video Display Device
LG OLED
@suoni - As I suspected, Class D was dropped as a cost-cutting measure.
Great thread! I'm really glad to see Onkyo storming back, and maybe Pioneer joining the top ranks. But disappointed that greater ability to pull power out of a wall socket (possibly with more compact chassis, and with less power droop as more channels are driven) with Class D is still moribund.
- I'd be really curious their specific comments WHY Class D is more expensive, since it is often posited as cheaper.
- And why they don't work on say 4 ohm compatibility, and less power droop with all channels driven. Those would be great points to go beat up on the competition, so I wonder the technical and $$$ challenges thereof. (These questions and the Class D one would make interesting articles if you asked also to Sound United and Arcam etc)
- Does Dirac have something like the Audyssey App, where you can cheaply tweak the room EQ?
- When you talk to those folks pass along that the 2-channel market is really hurting for room EQ and proper bass management! This is a huge bugaboo of mine.
- I also wonder about this tendency to immediately add more channels as a step-up feature. Are all those channels really getting used? Is there any data about that? I suspect a lot of receivers are actually just run in 2.1, and some of these 7/9/11/13/42 channel receivers are only running 5.1. Has anyone ever gotten data about that?
 

Scott1174

Registered
Joined
Apr 11, 2021
Messages
1
More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
Pioneer Elite
To all the Pioneer AVR enthusiasts how can you still buy there crap. Ever since Pioneer got out of the home theater business and was taken over by Onkyo, Pioneer quality went down in the toilet. Pioneer’s internals were top notch many years ago. Pioneer used to use Burr/Brown DAC’s . I have no clue what Onlyo uses. Pioneer Elite receivers always had a warm sound to them which I love. I still have my Elite VSX-32 from 2011 and still running strong as of 2021. Whoever said Pioneer receivers always break within 1 year doesn’t know Pioneer. Now in 2021 would I buy a Pioneer receiver? My answer is No. Pioneer of today is not the Pioneer of 10 yrs ago. Pioneer abandoned there customer support as well as the app support to control the receiver when they got out of the Home audio business. I think I will stick with my VSX -32 until it completely dies. They only thing the VSX -32 doesn’t do is 4K and Atmos so what. Anyway, to sum it up Pioneer abandoned there customers and there AVR’s of today are not what they where 10 yrs ago.
 
Last edited:

feadin

New Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2021
Messages
5
To all the Pioneer AVR enthusiasts how can you still buy there crap. Ever since Pioneer got out of the home theater business and was taken over by Onkyo, Pioneer quality went down in the toilet. Pioneer’s internals were top notch many years ago. Pioneer used to use Burr/Brown DAC’s . I have no clue what Onlyo uses. Pioneer Elite receivers always had a warm sound to them which I love. I still have my Elite VSX-32 from 2011 and still running strong as of 2021. Whoever said Pioneer receivers always break within 1 year doesn’t know Pioneer. Now in 2021 would I buy a Pioneer receiver? My answer is No. Pioneer of today is not the Pioneer of 10 yrs ago. Pioneer abandoned there customer support as well as the app support to control the receiver when they got out of the Home audio business. I think I will stick with my VSX -32 until it completely dies. They only thing the VSX -32 doesn’t do is 4K and Atmos so what. Anyway, to sum it up Pioneer abandoned there customers and there AVR’s of today are not what they where 10 yrs ago.

I still use every day my VSX-1121-K with my Panasonic Plasma. Love it. Was that model before the Onkyo takeover? I am waiting for the new 505 because I am thinking of upgraded to OLED and Atmos. Hope I won't be disappointed...
 

AVR tech

Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2021
Messages
37
And if Pioneer is listening, like the previous poster, I would also be interested in a demonstration of the new AVRs correctly passing HDMI 2.1 features, especially VRR. And proof that 4k/120 and 8k/60 hdmi bug is not an issue.
Luckily, I am not the odd one out who has asked for this to be demoed officially. There is a positive pressure, and rightly so, for those features to be finally delivered correctly and reliably, after the fiasco last year; otherwise it's a no go. Trinnov is currently testing the same HDMI 2.1 chipset featured in new Onkyo/Pioneer/Integra receivers. It's going to be interesting to see whether they also decide to upgrade their boards with the same chips. That would be telling. It's useful to be aware of this. Fingers crossed it works.

Please have a look into my posts from this thread (numbers are below), where you can find relevant details on how VRR needs to work to secure universal compatibility with any graphics configuration. I also gave details on how reviewers, previously unfamiliar with modern graphics features in AVRs, should approach reviewing new AV receivers and scrutinise graphics pass-through in video department.
#68
#71
#75
 

Todd Anderson

Editor / Senior Admin
Staff member
Thread Starter
Joined
Jan 20, 2017
Messages
9,267
Location
Balt/Wash Metro
More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
StormAudio ISP.24 MK2
Main Amp
Emotiva XPA-5
Additional Amp
Emotiva XPA Gen3 2.8 multichannel amp
Other Amp
Denon X8500H
Computer Audio
AudioEngine A2+
DAC
THX ONYX
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
Kaleidescape TERRA, OPPO UDP-203, Panasonic UB9000
Front Speakers
GoldenEar Technology Triton One.R
Center Channel Speaker
GoldenEar Technology SuperCenter Reference
Surround Speakers
SVS Ultra Surround
Surround Back Speakers
SVS Ultra Bookshelf
Front Height Speakers
SVS Prime Elevation x4 (Top Front, Top Mid-Front)
Rear Height Speakers
SVS Prime Elevation x4 (Top Middle, Top Rear)
Subwoofers
dual SVS SB16s + dual PSA XS30s
Other Speakers or Equipment
Behringer 1124p; Aura Bass Shaker Pros; SuperSub X
Video Display Device
JVC NX7
Screen
Seymour Screen Excellence, Enlightor NEO AT Screen
Streaming Equipment
iFi Audio Zen Blue
Streaming Subscriptions
Qobuz, TIDAL, Spotify, ROON
Other Equipment
LG Electronics 65-inch B6 OLED, Sony 65-inch X900F, ZeroSurge 8R15W x 2, ZeroSurge 2R15W x 2
@Todd Anderson, thank you for taking your time to get in contact with Pioneers reps on thee new models. It's certainly an exciting time, as many of us thought it was the end for Onkyo/Pioneer.

As far as the new models from Pioneer, its a simple thing, but it means a lot to me that Pioneer is keeping the front display the same. The new Yamaha display is a terrible step down in the quality department with the entire screen backlit and to not offering the channel display on the front. I also like that Pioneer kept the classic front physical appearance as well and did not make a drastic design change like Yamaha has done. These things together with working HDMI 2.1 ports and new DIRAC room calibration should likely be a hit.

I am coming from the first class D offering from Pioneer, the SC-07! Its still going strong after 12 years in my HT! In 2019 I upgraded to the LG C9 OLED and have a Series X. Only using optical from TV to the old SC-07 since there is no ARC or eARC there. I've been waiting patiently (with no high res audio and only using Dolby Digital) for a couple years now for an AVR with correct HDMI 2.1. Was about to go with the new Yamaha Aventage line before I saw these coming out, as I've never been a fan of Denon. The issues with the 2020 AVRs has delayed my purchases farther.

To the folks who are wondering about the would be SC-LX 705/905 class D line, Pioneer usually releases those in the next year after the VSX-LX class AB drops. So, if Pioneer was electing to continue that trend, then you would see the class D SC-LX 705/905 in late 2022. However, @Todd Anderson seems to have confirmed that Pioneer is skipping those this time around. It's very puzzling, since Pioneer/Onkyo/Integra needs an AVR with 11 and 13 channels onboard since Yamaha and Denon have those higher end AVRs. Hopefully they are telling Todd a straight answer and not just trying to steer customers to this years lineup for immediate sales. @Todd Anderson, would you be willing to ask them a more direct question of if they might have a SC-LX705/905, 11 and 13 channel, Class D offerings in 2022? Or are they for sure staying with Class AB if they drop a 11 and 13 channel AVR in 2022?

And if Pioneer is listening, like the previous poster, I would also be interested in a demonstration of the new AVRs correctly passing HDMI 2.1 features, especially VRR. And proof that 4k/120 and 8k/60 hdmi bug is not an issue.

As of right now, my understanding is that Class D was axed as a cost-cutting measure and there's no decision on whether it will be brought back (or not). We can speculate about the reasons, but there are no firm predictions of what will or will not come. Wish I could give you a more definitive answer!
 

Todd Anderson

Editor / Senior Admin
Staff member
Thread Starter
Joined
Jan 20, 2017
Messages
9,267
Location
Balt/Wash Metro
More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
StormAudio ISP.24 MK2
Main Amp
Emotiva XPA-5
Additional Amp
Emotiva XPA Gen3 2.8 multichannel amp
Other Amp
Denon X8500H
Computer Audio
AudioEngine A2+
DAC
THX ONYX
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
Kaleidescape TERRA, OPPO UDP-203, Panasonic UB9000
Front Speakers
GoldenEar Technology Triton One.R
Center Channel Speaker
GoldenEar Technology SuperCenter Reference
Surround Speakers
SVS Ultra Surround
Surround Back Speakers
SVS Ultra Bookshelf
Front Height Speakers
SVS Prime Elevation x4 (Top Front, Top Mid-Front)
Rear Height Speakers
SVS Prime Elevation x4 (Top Middle, Top Rear)
Subwoofers
dual SVS SB16s + dual PSA XS30s
Other Speakers or Equipment
Behringer 1124p; Aura Bass Shaker Pros; SuperSub X
Video Display Device
JVC NX7
Screen
Seymour Screen Excellence, Enlightor NEO AT Screen
Streaming Equipment
iFi Audio Zen Blue
Streaming Subscriptions
Qobuz, TIDAL, Spotify, ROON
Other Equipment
LG Electronics 65-inch B6 OLED, Sony 65-inch X900F, ZeroSurge 8R15W x 2, ZeroSurge 2R15W x 2
Luckily, I am not the odd one out who has asked for this to be demoed officially. There is a positive pressure, and rightly so, for those features to be finally delivered correctly and reliably, after the fiasco last year; otherwise it's a no go. Trinnov is currently testing the same HDMI 2.1 chipset featured in new Onkyo/Pioneer/Integra receivers. It's going to be interesting to see whether they also decide to upgrade their boards with the same chips. That would be telling. It's useful to be aware of this. Fingers crossed it works.

Please have a look into my posts from this thread (numbers are below), where you can find relevant details on how VRR needs to work to secure universal compatibility with any graphics configuration. I also gave details on how reviewers, previously unfamiliar with modern graphics features in AVRs, should approach reviewing new AV receivers and scrutinise graphics pass-through in video department.
#68
#71
#75

Haven't forgotten about you. I received a half-answer, but am waiting on the rest. I'll see if I can shake the tree a little.
 

Todd Anderson

Editor / Senior Admin
Staff member
Thread Starter
Joined
Jan 20, 2017
Messages
9,267
Location
Balt/Wash Metro
More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
StormAudio ISP.24 MK2
Main Amp
Emotiva XPA-5
Additional Amp
Emotiva XPA Gen3 2.8 multichannel amp
Other Amp
Denon X8500H
Computer Audio
AudioEngine A2+
DAC
THX ONYX
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
Kaleidescape TERRA, OPPO UDP-203, Panasonic UB9000
Front Speakers
GoldenEar Technology Triton One.R
Center Channel Speaker
GoldenEar Technology SuperCenter Reference
Surround Speakers
SVS Ultra Surround
Surround Back Speakers
SVS Ultra Bookshelf
Front Height Speakers
SVS Prime Elevation x4 (Top Front, Top Mid-Front)
Rear Height Speakers
SVS Prime Elevation x4 (Top Middle, Top Rear)
Subwoofers
dual SVS SB16s + dual PSA XS30s
Other Speakers or Equipment
Behringer 1124p; Aura Bass Shaker Pros; SuperSub X
Video Display Device
JVC NX7
Screen
Seymour Screen Excellence, Enlightor NEO AT Screen
Streaming Equipment
iFi Audio Zen Blue
Streaming Subscriptions
Qobuz, TIDAL, Spotify, ROON
Other Equipment
LG Electronics 65-inch B6 OLED, Sony 65-inch X900F, ZeroSurge 8R15W x 2, ZeroSurge 2R15W x 2
Certainly, but Neural:X and Auro-3D too and they all sound very different. Just a matter of taste I guess. To me on DSU I get too much instruments/vocals in the surrounds and also a bit of artificial, flattening sound flavour. With PLIIX Music the space just feels bigger, with the artist keeping in front and on the Onkyo it sounded very spacious and clear. Keep in mind that I only have tested it on the Denon X3700H so far! With a lot of tweaking it became more to my taste, but that affects everything. It's hard too explain, certainly in English. Roger Dressler does a better job but I don't know if it's allowed to quote him here? It's quite a lump of text and maybe I'm the only one here interested in this matter anyway.

Auro-2D implementation for mixing stereo to multi-channel is really good (you can find it on Denon and Marantz gear). Adds width without flooding the side and rear surrounds with overbearing content. If you have a more advanced processor (like StormAudio) you can actually control how much content is mixed into the side and rear channels. It's quite profound if upmixing is your thing.
 

NismoZ

Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2021
Messages
10
Thanks @Todd Anderson . Does Pioneer intend to create an offering in the onboard 11 or 13 channel range? Hopefully they are not expecting higher end customers to add on amps in order to get 11 or 13 channel power of the other brands have it built in. I would think they need those to compete at the higher end.
 

Todd Anderson

Editor / Senior Admin
Staff member
Thread Starter
Joined
Jan 20, 2017
Messages
9,267
Location
Balt/Wash Metro
More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
StormAudio ISP.24 MK2
Main Amp
Emotiva XPA-5
Additional Amp
Emotiva XPA Gen3 2.8 multichannel amp
Other Amp
Denon X8500H
Computer Audio
AudioEngine A2+
DAC
THX ONYX
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
Kaleidescape TERRA, OPPO UDP-203, Panasonic UB9000
Front Speakers
GoldenEar Technology Triton One.R
Center Channel Speaker
GoldenEar Technology SuperCenter Reference
Surround Speakers
SVS Ultra Surround
Surround Back Speakers
SVS Ultra Bookshelf
Front Height Speakers
SVS Prime Elevation x4 (Top Front, Top Mid-Front)
Rear Height Speakers
SVS Prime Elevation x4 (Top Middle, Top Rear)
Subwoofers
dual SVS SB16s + dual PSA XS30s
Other Speakers or Equipment
Behringer 1124p; Aura Bass Shaker Pros; SuperSub X
Video Display Device
JVC NX7
Screen
Seymour Screen Excellence, Enlightor NEO AT Screen
Streaming Equipment
iFi Audio Zen Blue
Streaming Subscriptions
Qobuz, TIDAL, Spotify, ROON
Other Equipment
LG Electronics 65-inch B6 OLED, Sony 65-inch X900F, ZeroSurge 8R15W x 2, ZeroSurge 2R15W x 2
Thanks @Todd Anderson . Does Pioneer intend to create an offering in the onboard 11 or 13 channel range? Hopefully they are not expecting higher end customers to add on amps in order to get 11 or 13 channel power of the other brands have it built in. I would think they need those to compete at the higher end.

Are you talking Pioneer or Elite?
 

NismoZ

Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2021
Messages
10
One in the same when we are talking about the upcoming VSX-LX105, 305 and 505. Those are all Elites without onboard 11 or 13 channel amps. Wondering if they are planning on offering a couple more Elites with 11 and 13 channel amp setups to complete with D&M and Yamaha offerings with that number of powered channels.
 

Todd Anderson

Editor / Senior Admin
Staff member
Thread Starter
Joined
Jan 20, 2017
Messages
9,267
Location
Balt/Wash Metro
More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
StormAudio ISP.24 MK2
Main Amp
Emotiva XPA-5
Additional Amp
Emotiva XPA Gen3 2.8 multichannel amp
Other Amp
Denon X8500H
Computer Audio
AudioEngine A2+
DAC
THX ONYX
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
Kaleidescape TERRA, OPPO UDP-203, Panasonic UB9000
Front Speakers
GoldenEar Technology Triton One.R
Center Channel Speaker
GoldenEar Technology SuperCenter Reference
Surround Speakers
SVS Ultra Surround
Surround Back Speakers
SVS Ultra Bookshelf
Front Height Speakers
SVS Prime Elevation x4 (Top Front, Top Mid-Front)
Rear Height Speakers
SVS Prime Elevation x4 (Top Middle, Top Rear)
Subwoofers
dual SVS SB16s + dual PSA XS30s
Other Speakers or Equipment
Behringer 1124p; Aura Bass Shaker Pros; SuperSub X
Video Display Device
JVC NX7
Screen
Seymour Screen Excellence, Enlightor NEO AT Screen
Streaming Equipment
iFi Audio Zen Blue
Streaming Subscriptions
Qobuz, TIDAL, Spotify, ROON
Other Equipment
LG Electronics 65-inch B6 OLED, Sony 65-inch X900F, ZeroSurge 8R15W x 2, ZeroSurge 2R15W x 2
Didn’t know if you were referencing additional models to the lone Pioneer branded AVR.

For now, the models they’ve announced are all they’re willing to discuss. The US-based group is definitely aware of market wants, and it sounds like there are some exciting things in the works.

If anything shocking is announced, my best guess is we’ll hear about it in the August/Sept time frame. Of course, I’ll pass along anything new as soon as I have a green light.
 

AVR tech

Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2021
Messages
37
Wondering if they are planning on offering a couple more Elites with 11 and 13 channel amp setups to complete with D&M and Yamaha offerings with that number of powered channels.
It's not going to happen in the first release or any time soon. Those brands have barely managed to survive, so we need to keep our expectations in check. Tokyo Stock Exchange has issued an official statement that Onkyo Corp. could be delisted from the trading floor in July this year. Whether this is going to happen, it remains to be seen. Their current share unit value is almost 0$. Articles are below.
Onkyo's troubles in Tokyo Stock Exchange
Onkyo's challenging situation on TSE
Realistically, this means that the US distributor will need to issue written assurances to all future customers that robust long-term product support will be in place for all new receivers coming into the market. This includes warranty periods, guaranted access to parts that can replaced/purchased, written confirmation of after sales support and explicit repair terms & conditions.
 

AVR tech

Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2021
Messages
37
On another note, I am interested in some server/network/streaming features.
As for Qobuz, built-in support isn't offered, but owners can stream Qobuz to any 2021 Elite, Onkyo, or Integra receiver via DTS Play-Fi and its Hi-Res capable Critical Listening Mode. To simplify the experience, this mode can be accessed using the free Pioneer and Onkyo Music Control apps (Apple and Android).
Apart from streaming audio from apps and home network (DLNA), do any new receivers have AV over IP functionality (HDMI-Ethernet conversion) or is this something that no AVR company has yet ventured into? I have read that Trinnov will release Audio over IP this year to owners of Altitude processors.

In other words, does AVR have internal encoders and decoders for receiving and sending AV data in packets over LAN or WiFi network? For example, could a movie be streamed from NAS to AVR, both connected with Cat cables to Ethernet switch on home network, and the file's soundtrack is extracted by DAC and played, but video is converted either into HDMI signal and passed through AVR to TV or image is sent over network to tablet? Is that feasible?
 
Last edited:

shawnmurphy1969

Registered
Joined
Apr 14, 2021
Messages
1
More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
Integra DRX-2.1
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
Sony UBP-X800 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray™ Player
Front Speakers
Klipsh RP-500M
Center Channel Speaker
Klipsch RP-440C
Surround Back Speakers
Elan MM-650W in-wall
Front Height Speakers
Elan MM-650C in-ceiling
Subwoofers
Klipsch R-110SW (2)
Video Display Device
Sony XBR65X900E
Remote Control
Included with devices
Streaming Equipment
Apple TV HD
Streaming Subscriptions
Amazon Prime Video, HBO Max, Netflix
I'm really excited to see what the new Integra lineup has to offer being an owner of a DRX-2.1. My original home theater install in 2007 was anchored by an Integra DTR-5.5, and after I heard it compared to other comparable AVRs, I've never considered another brand. I guess they had me at Integra! My home setup is a simple 5.2.2 configuration, but the DRX-2.1 makes it sound amazing, and even with 80 watts per channel, 8 ohms, 2ch driven, it never has struggled or even felt warm to the touch after continual hours of movie days. I'll probably upgrade to the DRX-3.4 for the extra wattage and newer future ready features when I'm ready to upgrade my tv, as I don't really feel the need to go with a higher priced model if I'm not going to add additional speakers...unless you think the Onkyo TX-RZ50 will be a better unit than the Integra DRX-3.4. Thanks for the article, it's great!
 
Top Bottom