Onkyo, Pioneer Elite, and Integra Deep Dive: A Fresh Look at the Brands’ Latest AV Receivers

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(March 3, 2021) The road to 2021 has been bumpy for Onkyo Corporation and its associated brands (Onkyo, Integra, Pioneer, and Pioneer Elite). Rewind two years, and the company was on the cusp of being acquired by Sound United, a deal that would have positioned all four brands alongside the likes of Marantz, Denon, and Classe'. And if 2020's international COVID crisis wasn't rough enough, Onkyo made the difficult decision to shutter its US distribution subsidiary, ultimately agreeing to sell its distribution assets to a new name in the game.

Now, following months of silence, rumors, and speculation, Onkyo and Pioneer have officially re-emerged behind the strength of its new US-based distributor, 11 Trading Company, and the solid foundation of a deeper business relationship. To help make sense of that relationship's structure, here's a quick breakdown of the companies involved and how they're related: 11 Trading Company is a subsidiary of Klipsch, and Klipsch is owned by Voxx. Onkyo and Voxx have a healthy history born from an arrangement that empowers Onkyo to distribute Klipsch products in Japan. Thus, both companies' natural move was to expand their alliance by reversing that arrangement in the North American market. That's how 11 Trading Company entered the picture; they were created to lead the charge.

I recently had an opportunity to chat with 11 Trading Company's Rolf Hawkins (Product Manager) and Mike Bohner (Digital Marketing Manager), and the conversation was teeming with positive energy and optimism. Hawkins, an industry veteran with a background that includes work on Pioneer's legendary Kuro plasma TVs, is tasked with guiding the development of next-gen Onkyo and Pioneer AV receivers. Both he and Bohner say all systems are primed and ready to launch Onkyo Corporation back into the conversation.

The best news born from the discussion is that Onkyo and Pioneer are alive and well. In fact, it's safe to say a forward-thinking team of designers has reinvigorated both brands. As Hawkins eluded, the end goal has been to craft a new line of receivers loaded with features to competitively satisfy customer and integrator demands (such as a web-based user interface) while making sure the latest and greatest in audio and video technologies are accommodated. This, of course, is extremely exciting, especially considering the pedigree each brand brings to the table.

Pioneer's rich past includes ushering Class D amplification into mainstream popularity. Nearly 14 years ago, it joined forces with THX to evaluate Class D designs, hoping to make chassis more compact, discover higher output capabilities, and improve fidelity. THX ultimately identified areas needing improvement, including frequency response, distortion, and noise, which led to a solution-seeking collaboration between Pioneer and ICEpower. The resulting 2008 class of Pioneer Elite receivers became the first THX Certified products to feature Class D technology.

On the other hand, Onkyo is a revered brand known for honest power specs and extremely competent performance. And, of course, it's a name that was closely tied to Audyssey's popular room correction solutions. That powerful – arguably crucial – Audyssey relationship came to an end in 2014 when Onkyo introduced its own proprietary solution called AccuEQ. In many ways, that move best captures how Onkyo (and Pioneer, with its MCACC room correction) began two lose luster in the eyes of hardcore home theater enthusiasts. Despite excellent technologies and amp performance, competing brands offered correction solutions that were viewed as better options.
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Fast forward to September 2020, and AV NIRVANA reported a newly formed relationship between Onkyo, Pioneer, and Dirac Research. Dirac, one of the heaviest hitters in the room correction biz, is fresh off releasing its latest software (Dirac Live 2.0) designed to be more user-friendly and capable of accepting add-on modules (like Bass Control) as they become available.

This isn't the first time Dirac has been linked to one or the other brand, which left some wondering if Onkyo's announcement was destined to crash. But, we're here to attest: it's real. As of now, we can only confirm the inclusion of Dirac Live on the majority of Onkyo, Elite, and Integra 2021 models; however, Dirac's Bass Control module might be part of the deal. That's a wait-and-see detail. More on that, soon.

After combing through specifications for Onkyo, Integra, and Pioneer Elite's latest, it appears that two of three Elite models, two of three Integra models, and two of four Onkyo models will support Dirac Live. Those models lacking support will feature MCACC or AccuEQ and some combination of subwoofer, phase control, and immersive sound EQ.

From a manufacturing perspective, the inclusion of licensed technology on mid- to higher-end models makes perfect sense. And, from an enthusiast's perspective, the ability to access Dirac capabilities at price points hovering around $1,000 is extremely attractive. This is a huge win for consumers because it opens the door to more options on the market, and the fact they're well-regarded brands is a major plus.

The other exciting inclusion is true HDMI 2.1 performance. 2.1 allows for 4K/120Hz and 8K video, an advanced gaming experience (think Variable Refresh Rate, Auto Low Latency Mode, and Quick Frame Transport), and support for features such as Enhanced Audio Return Channel. More importantly, Hawkins says the HDMI 2.1 chipset used in 2021 Onkyo, Integra, and Elite models will not suffer from the same bug weighing down brands that sourced Panasonic HDMI 2.1 chipsets for the 2020 model year. For a full breakdown of HDMI 2.1 input/output availability across all models, click here.

Physically speaking, 2021's crop of Pioneer Elite receivers looks nearly identical to its last model run of LX-xx4 gear. Each model has a gorgeous brushed aluminum front panel with robust volume and selector knobs, a bottom flip-down cover that conceals inputs and buttons, and Pioneer's classic orange display. Fans of the brand will be quick to note a refreshed remote control design, which is more simplified than past Elite remotes.

The VSX-LX505 (Projected-Minimum Advertised Price $1199) is Elite's flagship model, boasting 9.2-channel Class AB performance (120 watts per channel, 8 ohms, 2ch driven) with 11.2-channels of processing for 7.2.4 immersive sound when paired with an outboard amp. It's fully compatible with IMAX Enhanced, Dolby Atmos, DTS:X, legacy codecs, and associated upmixers. It also offers compatibility with a wide array of Hi-Res audio files. On the video front, the LX505 is HDR10+ and Dolby Vision-friendly, delivers HD upscaling (1080p to 4K/8K and 4K to 8K), and houses seven HDMI inputs and two outputs. Interestingly, Elite now offers access to DTS Play-Fi and Chromecast built-in, along with Apple AirPlay 2, Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, and support of most mainstream music services (including Amazon HD, Spotify, TIDAL, and Sonos systems). And if voice control suits your fancy, it's compatible with both Alexa and Google voice control, too.

The only notable and confirmed omission from the LX-505 is support for Auro-3D (this holds true for other Elite models as well as Onkyo/Integra's new AVRs). You might also notice that mentions of MQA and Qobuz are absent. Here's where things stand on both of those fronts: MQA is currently supported on the Pioneer Elite SX-N30 (no longer available in the US), Onkyo's TX-8260 and TX-8270, and Integra's DTM-6 and DTM-7. While each of those legacy receivers is a 2-channel model, there remains a possibility that native MQA support will find its way to some 2021 multi-channel models. As for Qobuz, built-in support isn't offered, but owners can stream Qobuz to any 2021 Elite, Onkyo, or Integra receiver via DTS Play-Fi and its Hi-Res capable Critical Listening Mode. To simplify the experience, this mode can be accessed using the free Pioneer and Onkyo Music Control apps (Apple and Android).

The VSX-LX305 (P-MAP $999) is also a 9.2-channel receiver loaded with most of the same capabilities as the LX505, minus the additional 2-channels of processing and a 100 watts per channel amp section. And the VSX-LX105 slides in for $300 less (P-MAP $699), with 7.2-channels of performance and the promise of 100 watts per channel (8 ohms, 2ch driven). Unlike the LX505 and LX305, the LX105 doesn't offer Dirac Live, slotting MCACC with Phase Control and Subwoofer EQ in its place.

All three Elite models feature advanced custom integration tools, including remote access to system information, web UI set-up, and compatibility with a broad array of integration partners.

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Onkyo's four-model lineup starts with the 7.2 channel TX-NR5100 (P-MAP $499) and ends with the 9.2-channel TX-RZ50 (P-MAP $1099). The TX-RZ50, much like the 9.2-channel TX-NR7100 (P-MAP $899) and 7.2-channel TX-NR6100 (P-MAP $699), is THX Select Certified and loaded to the brim with onboard support for the same immersive sound and streaming capabilities found on Elite's gear (including DTS Play-Fi and Chromecast built-in). It boasts a beefy 120 watts per channel (8 ohms, 2ch driven) and a wide frequency response (5Hz to 100kHz), drawing power from Dynamic Audio Amplification (DAA) RZ Series technology.

If your goal is to deploy a 7.2.4 system, the TX-RZ50 can process up to 11.2 channels with multichannel pre-outs for 11.2 playback. It's also HDR 10+ and Dolby Vision compatible.

The NR6100 and NR7100 are similarly equipped but carry lesser amplifier capabilities (100 watts per channel, 8 ohms, 2ch driven) and lack additional channel processing and multichannel pre-outs. In comparison, the NR5100 uses discrete 2-stage power amplifier circuitry to deliver 80 watts per channel. The NR5100 and NR6100 are devoid of Dirac, favoring AccuEQ Room Acoustic Calibration with AccuReflex phase correction and subwoofer EQ instead.

Style-wise, all four Onkyo receivers drip with Onkyo's tell-tale physical features and – not surprisingly – utilize a remote control identical to that of Elite.

Lastly, the integrator-friendly Integra lineup is burdened with the largest projected price tags, with the 9.2-channel DRX-5.4 commanding $1,900 P-MAP. With physical features looking similar to past models, its three new models are similarly equipped to Onkyo's best offerings, with the addition of key custom integration features. Those features include set-up and IP control via a web browser, a dealer settings memory/recall function, and compatibility with Crestron, Control4, Savant, URC, ELAN, and RTI automation.

Pricing for the 9.2-channel DRX3.4 and 7.2-channel DRX-2.4 is $1200 P-MAP and $800 P-MAP, respectively.

That leaves us with Pioneer's non-Elite branded gear, which is notably missing from action. There's an outside shot we might have some model news to share later this year, but Pioneer is holding its cards close to its chest. As for Onkyo, Integra, and Elite, we'll likely see a three-tier rollout during 2021, with the third phase happening closer to the August/September timeframe. According to Hawkins, nothing is set in stone (yet), but 11 Trading Company is close to finalizing a launch schedule.

With pricing ranging from $899 to $1,199, all four of the Elite and Onkyo top-end models are positioned to be highly competitive. The additions of Dirac, Play-Fi, Chromecast built-in, IMAX Enhanced, and true HDMI 2.1 performance are just a few of this group's highlights. While I predict Onkyo's TX-NR7100 and TX-RZ50 receivers will prove to be the most popular of the bunch, there's plenty of positives when considering the entire line's budget-oriented options. Elite's VSX-LX105 (P-MAP $699) is also one to keep your eye on, particularly because of its healthy amp section.



Additional Photos

Elite VSX-505
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Elite VSX-305
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Elite VSX-105
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Onkyo TX-RZ50
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Onkyo TX-NR7100
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Onkyo TX-NR6100
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Onkyo TX-NR5100
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Integra DRX-5.4
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Integra DRX-3.4
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Integra DRX-2.4
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Last edited:

mk1981

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Oh, I fully agree!

Pioneer uses the "Direct Energy" branding for all their amplifiers, I assumed it was just for class D amplifiers. I thought my AVR (VSX-1130, which would be positioned as VSX-LX30x in the current lineup) had class D amplification, but it turns out it's class AB as well.

When I found out that only Pioneer SC-LX AVRs use class D amplifiers, I was really disappointed that no such AVR is going to be released this year. On the other hand, it's probably going to be less expensive to buy the VSX-LX505 or Onkyo RZ-50 or NR-7100 (assuming it has preamp outputs) and external class D power amplfiiers.
 

LeKnobber

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This is great, just found this forum, coming over from AVS. I currently own a Pioneer Elite SC-75 and it’s time to upgrade now that I am getting the new Sony AJ90 and need 4K and HDMI 2.1 support. Really like the look of the new Pioneers compared to the Onkyo but that is just surface choice. Do we have any information on where and when we can preorder? I want to order the LX505 as soon as it’s available.
 

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This is great, just found this forum, coming over from AVS. I currently own a Pioneer Elite SC-75 and it’s time to upgrade now that I am getting the new Sony AJ90 and need 4K and HDMI 2.1 support. Really like the look of the new Pioneers compared to the Onkyo but that is just surface choice. Do we have any information on where and when we can preorder? I want to order the LX505 as soon as it’s available.

@LeKnobber welcome to the forum! Good to have you here... hope you stick around!

No information on exact launch times or any pre-order dates (yet). As soon as I hear something, will pass that info along.
 

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I have an ancient Panasonic SA-XR57 that’s class D needing replaced. Onkyo and Pioneer both made class D at one point, which is why I had my hopes up here. I’m really interested in Dirac, so these looked to be the perfect replacement. Guess I was hoping Todd could ask his contact for an explanation why no class D, but probably not something they want to answer.

The lack of class D use in AVRs is extremely puzzling given all the benefits provided in the form factor. Lower power, less heat, etc. I’m surprised they don’t have to switch solely due to energy consumption and all the additional channels.

Hi @suoni, I'm guessing the choice to nix Class D is to help lower the overall cost of manufacturing by sharing some internal componentry across the various lines. I'll try and confirm.
 

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Many thanks for all the info @Todd Anderson, I'm really interesed in the NR7100 and the RZ-50 ever since I've learnt that they will feature Dirac Live on board. Do you happen to know or can you ask your contact at Onkyo, whether the Dirac Live will be the LE version (20-500Hz) and there will be an upgrade possibility to the Full version (20-20.000Hz) for $99 like with NAD receivers or will they come with the Full version onboard already right out of the box? Many thanks.

Hi @kovacsgergely83, welcome to the forum!

Hang tight and I'll see if I can get an answer.
 

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Hi @suoni, I'm guessing the choice to nix Class D is to help lower the overall cost of manufacturing by sharing some internal componentry across the various lines. I'll try and confirm.

@suoni - As I suspected, Class D was dropped as a cost-cutting measure. We could potentially see Class D return in future model years. I think a lot of that depends on sales and the overall health of companies. So, this is a wait-and-see situation.
 

suoni

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@Todd Anderson, thanks for asking, appreciate it. I hope these sell well, the competition is necessary. Tell them going class D across the line would also keep the costs down. :)
 

mk1981

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I don't see how keeping to one class keeps costs down when every tier in the lineup has a different amplifier in the first place.

You have low end 5-channel AVRs, next up you have 7-channel AVRs, then 9-channel and 11-channel. All of them have different power ratings, so they presumably might use different heatsinks.

We don't know about Pioneer and Onkyo, but look at how Denon (and Marantz) do things where they have a completely different amplifier designs across their Xx700H lineup and Marantz uses a different feedback loop topology in theirs. If you have an integrated amplifier in one design, discrete stereo amplifiers in another and a series of monoblocks in yet another, I can't see how this saves costs.

Putting an 11-channel class D amplifier for VSX-LX305 and up wouldn't cost more than putting an 11-channel class AB amplifier.

Going back to Denon for a second, see how they moved from "AVR-X####x" to AVC-X####x" across their lineup from X3700H and up. It started with AVC-X8500H and AVC-X6500H, then filtered down to AVC-X4700H and AVC-X3700H. They essentially removed receiver capabilities for marketing reasons (it's NOT a receiver, it's a processor-amplifier!), and with the last generation, they also changed amplifier designs a lot.

If Pioneer denotes their class D AVRs as SC-LX, there was absolutely no reason to not put a class D amplifier in 305 and 505 and call them SC-LX305 and SC-LX505, especially if they are the models that will include Dirac. It would also work well for marketing reasons outside of North America (where VSX-LX105 is named VSX-935).
 

cputoaster

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@Todd Anderson is there any info if there would be a "pre-amp" mode that just shuts down the AB amps? Looks like this could be a great use of the TX-RZ50 if it has better S/N than an NAD 758 V3 on pre-outs. Would be uncool to have AB amps generating heat and generating noise for nothing. Recent nice speakers are often active (Nubert, Canton, Genelec...).
 

xeradune

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Onkyo to delist from Tokyo exchange in July
I read the news yesterday.
Can we meet onkyo/pioneer new recievers?
 
Last edited:

mk1981

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Nikkei has the story:
The above article mentions that this is the second consecutive year of liabilities exceeding assets which triggers the delisting.

I don't think this year's receivers are in danger. Voxx, through its subsidiary founded last year, the Premium Audio Company (which includes Klipsch), could be interested in purchasing it for debt.

Either way, once these receivers are on the market, expect them to be bundled with Klipsch speakers at a good discount. That alone will make them sell a lot of their units.
 

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@Todd Anderson is there any info if there would be a "pre-amp" mode that just shuts down the AB amps? Looks like this could be a great use of the TX-RZ50 if it has better S/N than an NAD 758 V3 on pre-outs. Would be uncool to have AB amps generating heat and generating noise for nothing. Recent nice speakers are often active (Nubert, Canton, Genelec...).

Sorry for the delay... I'll check into this!
 

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Denon X8500H
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AudioEngine A2+
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THX ONYX
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
Kaleidescape TERRA, OPPO UDP-203, Panasonic UB9000
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GoldenEar Technology Triton One.R
Center Channel Speaker
GoldenEar Technology SuperCenter Reference
Surround Speakers
SVS Ultra Surround
Surround Back Speakers
SVS Ultra Bookshelf
Front Height Speakers
SVS Prime Elevation x4 (Top Front, Top Mid-Front)
Rear Height Speakers
SVS Prime Elevation x4 (Top Middle, Top Rear)
Subwoofers
dual SVS SB16s + dual PSA XS30s
Other Speakers or Equipment
Behringer 1124p; Aura Bass Shaker Pros; SuperSub X
Video Display Device
JVC NX7
Screen
Seymour Screen Excellence, Enlightor NEO AT Screen
Streaming Equipment
iFi Audio Zen Blue
Streaming Subscriptions
Qobuz, TIDAL, Spotify, ROON
Other Equipment
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***UPDATE***

The original article has been updated with new photos of the back panels of the receivers. Alterations have been made to HDMI labeling to make it easier for the owners and integrators to know which inputs are capable of 8K and 4K... Here are large versions of the photos if you'd like to get a closer look (no particular order):

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AVR tech

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Thank you for posting updated back panel photos. Fingers crossed the second gen of HDMI 2.1 chips works as intended.

I am curious to try to clarify a few features. HDMI 2.1 features will mostly be important for gaming community and graphics folks, where sync is paramount. One of disappointments with last year's models was the fact that no one really demonstrated VRR working correctly when GPUs were connected to AVR and then to TV or monitor.

If new AVR models are again marketed to gamers, the deal-breaker is going to be AVR's ability to pass-through generic VRR, Gsync and Freesync reliably to compatible displays. If this is not explicitly advertised and tested in promotion/demo materials, we will have the same problem again with users avoiding direct video connections to AVR.

On another note, is there any initial spec list of supported resolutions and refresh rates in new AVRs' EDID?
 

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Sorry for the delay... I'll check into this!

Have a preliminary answer, but waiting on confirmation of a detail. Should hopefully know by the end of the week.
 

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Thank you for posting updated back panel photos. Fingers crossed the second gen of HDMI 2.1 chips works as intended.

I am curious to try to clarify a few features. HDMI 2.1 features will mostly be important for gaming community and graphics folks, where sync is paramount. One of disappointments with last year's models was the fact that no one really demonstrated VRR working correctly when GPUs were connected to AVR and then to TV or monitor.

If new AVR models are again marketed to gamers, the deal-breaker is going to be AVR's ability to pass-through generic VRR, Gsync and Freesync reliably to compatible displays. If this is not explicitly advertised and tested in promotion/demo materials, we will have the same problem again with users avoiding direct video connections to AVR.

On another note, is there any initial spec list of supported resolutions and refresh rates in new AVRs' EDID?

I'll see if I can get an answer for you on some of the specifics you're asking about. They've been clear about their confidence in this batch of 2.1 chips, which is something we specifically discussed during the sit down conversation. Of course, anything is possible... but more than likely everything will work exactly as intended.
 

AVR tech

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Phil Jones from Sound United was also very confident about last year's chips in all promo videos and talks on youtube... Even when HDMI 2.1 bug was discovered by German tech magazine, Sound United went on to record a demo in December showing Nvidia GPU-AVR-TV set-up for 40 Gbps signal. The demo showed a still desktop PC image on Samsung's TV, but they never showed the quality of moving images from games and graphic simulations, let alone VRR pass-through, in this case Gsync. That showed a contempt for the consumer, as one of important advertised features was not proven to work as intended.

Simply put, advertising VRR in the spec tells us almost nothing about specific scenarios in which this feature works, as there are three kinds of VRR and the feature is tied to specific resolutions and refresh rates in EDID. Some HDMI 2.1 devices have VRR range 4K 40-60 HZ only, and some 4K 40-120-Hz. Is AVR's EDID programmed to support 40-120 Hz VRR range? There are two issues here to clarify:
1. which of the three VRR editions could pass through - HDMI VRR, Freesync and Gsync
2. which of those three work with 4K 40-60 Hz and with 4K 40-120 Hz

Is it possible for you guys to ask companies to prepare a few demo videos with new receivers actually showing those graphics features working reliably? We now have two consoles, two sets of GPUs from Nvidia/AMD on the market and HDMI 2.1 laptops. It should be really easy to demo all three flavours of VRR - generic HDMI VRR, Freesync adn Gync with different refresh rates, so that future buyers are aware of what works. We want to avoid further disappointments by resorting to clarity and specific scenarios.
 
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Todd Anderson

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Phil Jones from Sound United was also very confident about last year's chips in all promo videos and talks on youtube... Even when HDMI 2.1 bug was discovered by German tech magazine, Sound United went on to record a demo in December showing Nvidia GPU-AVR-TV set-up for 40 Gbps signal. The demo showed a still desktop PC image on Samsung's TV, but they never showed the quality of moving images from games and graphic simulations, let alone VRR pass-through, in this case Gsync. That showed a contempt for the consumer, as one of important advertised features was not proven to work as intended.

Simply put, advertising VRR in the spec tells us almost nothing about specific scenarios in which this feature works, as there are three kinds of VRR and the feature is tied to specific resolutions and refresh rates in EDID. Some HDMI 2.1 devices have VRR range 4K 40-60 HZ only, and some 4K 40-120-Hz. Is AVR's EDID programmed to support 40-120 Hz VRR range? There are two issues here to clarify:
1. which of the three VRR editions could pass through - HDMI VRR, Freesync and Gsync
2. which of those three work with 4K 40-60 Hz and with 4K 40-120 Hz

Is it possible for you guys to ask companies to prepare a few demo videos with new receivers actually showing those graphics features working reliably? We now have two consoles, two sets of GPUs from Nvidia/AMD on the market and HDMI 2.1 laptops. It should be really easy to demo all three flavours of VRR - generic HDMI VRR, Freesync adn Gync with different refresh rates, so that future buyers are aware of what works. We want to avoid further disappointments by resorting to clarity and specific scenarios.

You'd hope that manufacturers and the chip manufacturer are working hand-in-hand to get it right. It's not surprising that we've encountered a few bumps in the road. There's a lot of moving parts that need to work in concert.

I wish I had a definitive answer for you... I don't. But, I'm asking!

As for demo videos, folks from the manufacturer are likely reading this, so your request will be seen. I:T
 

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@Todd Anderson is there any info if there would be a "pre-amp" mode that just shuts down the AB amps? Looks like this could be a great use of the TX-RZ50 if it has better S/N than an NAD 758 V3 on pre-outs. Would be uncool to have AB amps generating heat and generating noise for nothing. Recent nice speakers are often active (Nubert, Canton, Genelec...).

Unfortunately, no pre-amp mode for the 505, 5.4, or RZ50.
 

AVR tech

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As for demo videos, folks from the manufacturer are likely reading this, so your request will be seen.
Thank you for the reply. I appreciate it. You are right that collaborative effort is needed. Plus, feedback from customers who are actually going to use those AVRs for several years. If a feature is advertised to a new target market, in this case VRR for millions of PC users and console community, there are three graphics ecosystems AVR needs to integrate with in order to be popular and successful in this segment. Console users rely on HDMI's VRR and PC users rely on Nvidia and AMD's sync solutions. AMD developed royalty free FreeSync for HDMI interface a few years before HDMI Forum decided to include it in HDMI 2.1 revision. FreeSync works in the same way as HDMI's VRR, but it is slightly differently advertised in EDID. This probably needs to be looked at in AVR's transceiver chips, so that both options are available for whatever source. This is where AVR shows its versatility and interoperability as a 'middle-man' device.

A simple table or specific information on this feature in the spec list would speak miles for home entertainment integration and disappointment-free purchases. Sorting out VRR in EDID is the deal-breaker for smooth graphics pass-through. Several companies got it wrong in last two years, in TVs, GPUs and AVRs. For example, Sony officially delayed the feature for one year on their TVs and the console. Many customers returned Denons because of this; others excluded AVR from a video chain altogether and have been waiting in frustration for promised permanent solution package for almost 6 months. A solution for reliable use of one single chip. If it sounds bizarre, it is bizarre. Trinnov product managers openly declared that they will not integrate HDMI 2.1 until features work together 100%. It's a colourful landscape out there...

It seems that two independent entries are needed in AVR's EDID, for SDR and for HDR images.

AVR's EDID HDMI generic VRRAMD FreeSync Premium Nvidia Gsync
VRR range 40-120 Hz
for 8-bit and 10-bit
needed-GPU's HDMI VRR driver
(is it enough to work?)
FreeSync range 40-120
for 8-bit and 10-bit
-needed-
Much appreciated. Thank you.
 
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Todd Anderson

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The same thing holds true of StormAudio... they are holding off as well. You're looking at this from a perspective that I wouldn't, not because I think you're incorrect or off-base, but because I'm not a gamer (at least not in the sense that you're describing). I'm not even sure how I'd go about reviewing a receiver to answer your questions without more intimate knowledge of the kind of technologies used in the gaming realm... or having systems in house.

That said, all good questions. I do have a dialog going (about it). Let's see what they ultimately say.
 

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Hello all,
just landed here in my search voor a new AVR as the TX-NR807 finally died on me. Very happy to read this news, looks like the TX-RZ50 will be my new baby! Maybe an odd question, but would it be possible to ask your good friend Rolf if Dolby Pro Logical IIx-z is een option? I know it's a thing from the past (like myself more and more ;) ) but I really, really like to listen old music trough DLPiiX Music. I'm about to return a Denon AVC-X3700H, despite all the nice features, I can't find a setting that brings the same smile on my face. TIA. Nice forum!
 

Todd Anderson

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THX ONYX
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Kaleidescape TERRA, OPPO UDP-203, Panasonic UB9000
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GoldenEar Technology Triton One.R
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GoldenEar Technology SuperCenter Reference
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SVS Ultra Surround
Surround Back Speakers
SVS Ultra Bookshelf
Front Height Speakers
SVS Prime Elevation x4 (Top Front, Top Mid-Front)
Rear Height Speakers
SVS Prime Elevation x4 (Top Middle, Top Rear)
Subwoofers
dual SVS SB16s + dual PSA XS30s
Other Speakers or Equipment
Behringer 1124p; Aura Bass Shaker Pros; SuperSub X
Video Display Device
JVC NX7
Screen
Seymour Screen Excellence, Enlightor NEO AT Screen
Streaming Equipment
iFi Audio Zen Blue
Streaming Subscriptions
Qobuz, TIDAL, Spotify, ROON
Other Equipment
LG Electronics 65-inch B6 OLED, Sony 65-inch X900F, ZeroSurge 8R15W x 2, ZeroSurge 2R15W x 2
Hello all,
just landed here in my search voor a new AVR as the TX-NR807 finally died on me. Very happy to read this news, looks like the TX-RZ50 will be my new baby! Maybe an odd question, but would it be possible to ask your good friend Rolf if Dolby Pro Logical IIx-z is een option? I know it's a thing from the past (like myself more and more ;) ) but I really, really like to listen old music trough DLPiiX Music. I'm about to return a Denon AVC-X3700H, despite all the nice features, I can't find a setting that brings the same smile on my face. TIA. Nice forum!

@Gustaaf, welcome to the forum. The TX-RZ50 definitely is looking like a great option! As for your Dolby question, PL IIZ is supported by Dolby Surround (which the receiver has).
 

AVR tech

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I'm not even sure how I'd go about reviewing a receiver to answer your questions without more intimate knowledge of the kind of technologies used in the gaming realm... or having systems in house
It's a great consideration. Thank you for being open-minded. This consideration comes as a side effect of two novel factors: HDMI 2.1 implementation and prominent marketing strategies by companies to target new segment of consumer market. The importance of marketing messages for gamers cannot be understated. There is no single company that does not mention them.

- Yamaha officially says on their website: "Movies and games like never before"
- Denon reads on its website: "Gaming mastered" (what an irony... we all know the truth)
- In Pioneer, Onkyo and Integra article "...advanced gaming experience" is mentioned

Companies realised that HDMI 2.1 could open a new gold rush by pushing big AVR black boxes in-between PC or console set-ups at homes. There is nothing wrong with it. It's not that PC users do not have AVRs at home; many do, including myself, but marketing itself has never been as prominent. It's a major shift and new venture for AVR companies. If so, is it enough to install a few chips, speedy HDMI ports, list features, make a few basic entries in EDID and call it a day? There seems to be more to HDMI 2.1 video pipeline comparing to passing HDR codecs for movies.

Reviewers of new generation of AVRs should take this video aspect into account, as those consumers will not only care about power rating, audio features and HDR for movies, but also pass-through support for computer graphics features, such as VRR, which is another part of video pipeline. You definitely do not need to have any intimate knowledge or gaming gear at home to be able to review effectively AVR's support for those new features. It all boils down to a few pieces of information when reviewing video features in hardware and software.

40953


AVRs have pretty much well developed audio and amplification support, as well as video pass-through for recent HDR standards in home cinema. Now, a new arena for reviewers are consumer gaming and graphics features, courtesy of HDMI 2.1 revision. My suggestion is that any professional reviewer asks two simple questions:

Q1. Does AVR support gaming consoles reliably?
Reviewer needs to check whether both consoles work with AVR (we all know what happened with black screen from Denon...). There are only two HDMI 2.1 consoles anyway, XboxX (40 Gbps) and Play Station 5 (32 Gbps). Features to check on AVR: HDMI port speeds, QFT, ALLM, QMS and VRR. It is not enough to have them listed in the spec sheet. Those features need to be demonstrated to work as intended. In Covid times, the most reliable marketing could be posting youtube videos showing how those features work in real life configuration. That builds trust in any brand. Consumers also need to be educated to plug HDMI 2.1 cables from consoles and PCs into 40 Gbps ports on AVR, as connecting cables to 24 Gbps ports will cause degradation in image quality.

With VRR, manufacturer should state details of EDID support for it. Is the frame rate range set for 4K 40-120 Hz? Can we see this range on AVR's display? If it is not baked in, there will be tearing, judder, lost frames and stuttering, or VRR chain will not work at all. Unpleasant experience. No go. AVR taken out of video pipeline or returned; unhappy customer. It is one single feature that needs to work really well. No one wants to see stuttering and judder when watching movies, so why should console gamers put up with it when AVRs are intentionally sold to them?
*This can be demonstrated with XboxX currently, as PS5 will receive VRR firmware by the end of the year. Knowing details about VRR is graphics equivalent to an audiophile being aware of how many amplified channels AVR has. It is basic information for this segment of consumers.

Q2. Does AVR support PCs with AMD/Nvidia graphics cards?
- ask for explicit FreeSync support in AVR's EDID (for PCs with AMD 6000 series graphics cards). EDID should contain FreeSync range 40-120Hz.
- ask whether AVR allows Gsync pass-through (for PCs with Nvidia 3000 series graphics cards)
Both AMD and Nvidia graphics cards have HDMI 2.1 ports capable of outputting up to 48 Gbps. If FreeSync and Gsync do not work properly when connected to AVR and onto TV/monitor, PC users will not consider AVR. Lack of support would produce the same simptomes as above with consoles. This is what Sound United did not get right last year and left PC users who bought AVRs disappointed; perhaps even betrayed. There are hundreds of thousands of PC users who might want to integrate new AVR well with their PC-based home entertaiment, but cannot do it if graphics support is inadequate. We are waiting for test results from Yamaha now, to see if their VRR works properly, both for console and PC users.

I should state that I am not a gamer, but happen to know about these features from experiences in my household, among my friends and from own tech research. I do have PC and AVR at home, but AVR is out of video chain, which should not be the case. Imagine you want to install 7.2.4 set-up at home and you wish to upgrade AVR. Manufacturer states in the spec that its AVR supports 7.2.4 configuration, without giving more details. You buy it, open it and find out that only 9 out of 11 channels are amplified and two subs are not independently driven. You are disappointed, naturally, because "7.2.4 support" meant something different to you. The same applies for VRR feature. Relevant details are important.

Anyway, apologies for longer reply, but I hope it's useful. Support for graphics features should not be intimidating for anyone, as soon as we are provided with clarity and relevant information. People need to know what kind of configurations can work and how reliably. If AVR companies decided to try to make their products attractive to PC users and console folks, their engineers and marketing specialists need to be able to imagine and learn features that matter in this segment of market. We only have two big companies on the planet manufacturing graphics cards for PCs and two companies making new consoles. I appreciate that new tech could be complicated initially, but there are enough HDMI 2.1 sources now for thorough in-house testing of AVRs with different TVs and monitors that host variery of VRR flavours.

VRR comes in three flavours (HDMI Forum, FreeSync and Gsync), similarly to different flavours of HDR or room acoustics calibration. As wonderful and welcomed as Dirac tech is in acoustics department, it's not going to make any difference for everyday user who cannot get basic computer graphics feature pass through AVR reliably and run smoothly on HDMI 2.1 monitor or TV display.

Essentially, if the spec sheet lists VRR, it should state all or some of the following:
- supports HDMI VRR 40-120Hz (this covers consoles)
- supports FreeSync Premium 40-120 Hz (covers AMD set-up)
- supports Gsync compatible and/or Gsync (covers Nvidia set-up)
If all three are listed and supported, bingo! There is universal compatibility for entire gaming world. If only some, prospective buyers will know whether that particular AVR fits with their home gear. We want customers to have good user experience, rather than feeling miserable about their home entertainment systems not being able to work together.
 
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