Measuring From Listening Position Vs Nearfield

Trdat

Member
Thread Starter
Joined
Nov 6, 2019
Messages
186
I have come across some literature such as for the Hypex DSP plate amp and Minidsp that when designing speakers, measurements should be taken from Nearfield. With AL we measure from listening position when using XO. Is this a different method or design ideology with Audiolense?

Just curious that's all.
 

juicehifi

Audiolense
Staff member
Joined
Feb 5, 2018
Messages
703
I believe it is different thinking due to different technology and different experiences.

WIth Audiolense and simiilar FIR based solutions,the experience is massive in favor of full range or at least high range correction based on listening position measurements. Furthermore, there are frequently situations where the interaction between drivers can be improved by altering the crossovers based on sweet spot measurements. This can typically happen if one or both drivers have a strong cancellation inside the crossover region.
 

Trdat

Member
Thread Starter
Joined
Nov 6, 2019
Messages
186
I believe it is different thinking due to different technology and different experiences.

WIth Audiolense and simiilar FIR based solutions,the experience is massive in favor of full range or at least high range correction based on listening position measurements. Furthermore, there are frequently situations where the interaction between drivers can be improved by altering the crossovers based on sweet spot measurements. This can typically happen if one or both drivers have a strong cancellation inside the crossover region.


So its also technolgoy based if I understand you correctly? Its the way Audiolense is made and listening position works well with that type of technology or could we say use the listening position for measurements for other FIR filter based technology and also perhaps use nearfield with Audiolense? I'm just trying to understand if the way we measure is different thinking or is the way the technology is designed dictates the way to measure? That is what I am trying to say....
 

juicehifi

Audiolense
Staff member
Joined
Feb 5, 2018
Messages
703
Anything is allowed. And yes of course you can use Audiolense nearfield.
 

bvocal

Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2018
Messages
27
When you measure nearfield it’s to measure the speaker’s response and the goal is to NOT have room mode interference. When you measure at the listening position the goal is to measure how the room modes are affecting the sound.
 
Joined
Nov 7, 2020
Messages
12
When you measure nearfield it’s to measure the speaker’s response and the goal is to NOT have room mode interference. When you measure at the listening position the goal is to measure how the room modes are affecting the sound.
This is correct, up to a point. The room modes, meaning resonances dictated by room dimensions, get closer together as you go up in frequency, until they blur together enough to smooth the frequency response. The room modes mostly come into play below 300 Hz or so. I would also point out that using EQ for room correction only works for the exact spot where the measurement mic was placed, and "fixing" the response there actually makes the response in other locations in the room WORSE. If you are really serious about dealing with the response of the room, extensive acoustical treatment is required. If you made a multiple thousands investment in equipment for your home theater, spend the money on proper room treatment to give your fancy equipment a fighting ;chance to do its job.
 

Ian Eales

Member
VIP Supporter
Joined
Aug 18, 2017
Messages
31
Location
Florence, Oregon
More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
marantz NR1711
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
LG BP335W Region Free
Front Speakers
RS Minimus 7
Center Channel Speaker
RS Minimus 7 x 2 wired in series
Surround Speakers
RS Minimus 7
Surround Back Speakers
TEAC LS-MC85
Subwoofers
Martin Logan 2x 800x
Other Speakers or Equipment
Triamped Eminent Tech LFT-8b music.
Screen
LG 65" OLED
Remote Control
TOO Many!
Other Equipment
VPI bricks, Transparent Link cables, De Mat Disc
If you are really serious about dealing with the response of the room, extensive acoustical treatment is required.
Having worked in innumerable recording studios with extensive audio treatment, both acoustic and electronic, I much prefer a room with a little life. Judicious furnishing and decoration choices can do as well or better than a bunch of hideous panels. That being said, some rooms are hopeless and no amount of treatment, electronic or mechanical, will create a silk purse. It may measure well, but it will still be a sow's ear.
 

BenToronto

Member
Joined
May 22, 2017
Messages
118
Deceptive to think just in terms of room modes. Rather, there is simple reflection in the total sphere (Toole's Spinorama) of each of the speakers as well. The modes actually look worse to the eye looking at plots than to your ear getting a blast of complex musical sound the exact original is not knowable to ordinary humans*.

And all that measurement is still good only up to a point. "The sound" you experience is a complex perception built on powers and tone profiles and timings and as everybody here knows, varies with the loudness you're playing at. That's why it is not possible to do a final tune of a room except by ear.

B.
*clairvoyants excepted
 

juicehifi

Audiolense
Staff member
Joined
Feb 5, 2018
Messages
703
I would also point out that using EQ for room correction only works for the exact spot where the measurement mic was placed, and "fixing" the response there actually makes the response in other locations in the room WORSE.

I doubt that you are able to back this up with hard evidence. Everything I've seen from Audiolense users has been quite the opposite: The general result is that the response is improved literally everywhere in the room. There have also been published research that shows significant improvements outside of where the microphone was placed. I am not able to access the AES library at the moment. Anyway, a guy named Mourjoupolous published a paper years ago where a full range sweet spot correction lead to measurably better and preceived better by a listening panel.
 

Omid

Member
Joined
May 28, 2017
Messages
131
As an experiment, I once did a near field measurement and created a filter to correct the speaker, and then did a second far field sweep playing through the filter corrected speaker. So I generated 2 cascading filters, the first to correct any of the speaker’s issues, and the second to correct the room.

Roon and JRiver allow the use of more than one DSP filter in the playback chain.
The experiment took a fair bit of work. Unfortunately the result did not sound good.

I can think of a few reasons:
1. The near field measurement is not really isolating the speaker (it’s still affected by the room in low frequencies).
2. I think that if you want to correct the issues of a speaker you need to take into account its power distribution (meaning you ought to correct the calculated in room response from a spinorama, rather than the near field). If you take that one step farther you might as well measure at the listening position to correct the actual power distribution in your own room.
3. Stacking 2 DSP filters (near field + far field) may introduce its own artefacts.

No matter the reasons, it just didn’t sound good. My conclusion was that I should stick with just 1 listening position sweep as Bernt advises.
 

BenToronto

Member
Joined
May 22, 2017
Messages
118
No matter the reasons, it just didn’t sound good. My conclusion was that I should stick with just 1 listening position sweep as Bernt advises.

There is a body of caraeful studies of seating positions and variations, esp from the Harman group and Geddes. Obviously, if there's variation from seat to seat revealed in their testing, "putting lipstick on a pig" wouldn't lessen the variation*. So the foundational questions are: is your room "a pig" and is auto-EQ just "lipstick"?

It also renders the OP question of near- or far-field testing moot. If there's variation from spot to spot (as anybody can verify just using their laptop mic), no single near-field measurement can address the far-field variation.

B.
*The family of solutions arising from that research focuses on location of sub-woofers in relation to eigentones and their polarity.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Nov 7, 2020
Messages
12
I doubt that you are able to back this up with hard evidence. Everything I've seen from Audiolense users has been quite the opposite: The general result is that the response is improved literally everywhere in the room. There have also been published research that shows significant improvements outside of where the microphone was placed. I am not able to access the AES library at the moment. Anyway, a guy named Mourjoupolous published a paper years ago where a full range sweet spot correction lead to measurably better and preceived better by a listening panel.
Actually, the fact I stated is very old news, and widely understood. I first learned about this problem over 30 yers ago working as a studio tech. A few years before, there had been a big thing of using 1/3 octave graphic equalizers to correct response in control rooms. The studios that tried this ended up taking out those equalizers after learning the hard way that they don't fix the room. Every so many years this "fix the room with EQ" snake oil gets re-sold with some new window dressing, and another generation of engineers and techs eventually learns the folly of it. One can correct for DRIVER response, which some of the better studio monitor products actually do, but not for the response of the ROOM. Room problems can only properly be fixed with proper acoustical treatment. Unfortunately, there is also a lot of snake oil out there in terms of acoustical treatment products, particularly when it comes to acoustical foams.
 
Joined
Nov 7, 2020
Messages
12
Having worked in innumerable recording studios with extensive audio treatment, both acoustic and electronic, I much prefer a room with a little life. Judicious furnishing and decoration choices can do as well or better than a bunch of hideous panels. That being said, some rooms are hopeless and no amount of treatment, electronic or mechanical, will create a silk purse. It may measure well, but it will still be a sow's ear.
As the room gets smaller, correct acoustical treatment becomes more difficult. Liveness can be nice if the room is BIG, and most of the rooms in ordinary homes do not qualify as big enough. Sadly, in a "small booth" situation (particularly for recording VoiceOver), "kill it dead" is the only workable solution.
 

BenToronto

Member
Joined
May 22, 2017
Messages
118
Actually, the fact I stated is very old news, and widely understood. I first learned about this problem over 30 yers ago working as a studio tech. A few years before, there had been a big thing of using 1/3 octave graphic equalizers to correct response in control rooms. The studios that tried this ended up taking out those equalizers after learning the hard way that they don't fix the room.
That's about the smartest post I've seen in a long time. Thanks.

But in addition to "everybody finally knows...", I add the authority of Toole's critique in recent years who says exactly the same thing. Which is why his Spinorama aims to identify ideal speakers in terms of freq but also all measurable aspects of directionality. But your ear learns the room so Uncle Harry always sounds the same in all rooms.

It may be that the Uncle Harry correction is not possible in the same way when the original sound is unknown (like all recordings, of course)... even if you do get to know your speakers in your room.

A somewhat separate issue is simply adaptation ("Burnt soup principle" - I like it when it is burnt like my mother's soup) to your regular room.

B.
 

juicehifi

Audiolense
Staff member
Joined
Feb 5, 2018
Messages
703
Actually, the fact I stated is very old news, and widely understood. I first learned about this problem over 30 yers ago working as a studio tech. A few years before, there had been a big thing of using 1/3 octave graphic equalizers to correct response in control rooms. The studios that tried this ended up taking out those equalizers after learning the hard way that they don't fix the room. Every so many years this "fix the room with EQ" snake oil gets re-sold with some new window dressing, and another generation of engineers and techs eventually learns the folly of it. One can correct for DRIVER response, which some of the better studio monitor products actually do, but not for the response of the ROOM. Room problems can only properly be fixed with proper acoustical treatment. Unfortunately, there is also a lot of snake oil out there in terms of acoustical treatment products, particularly when it comes to acoustical foams.

I’ve heard this tune for 15 years. It has never been accompanied by anything but anecdotal evidence based on experience with old-fashioned eq and poor theoretical foundation. And those who forward this type of criticism typically have zero experience with Audiolense or similar.

There exist solid scientific evidence of a very strong correlation between measured and perceived sound quality in the sweet spot. The number of Audiolense users are growing … and most of them seem to stick to this type of correction after they have experienced it.

If you visit the old Audiolense User forum you will find an 180 degree turnaround from a highly regarded mastering engineer, Bob Katz. He had the same beliefs as you, but his ears didn’t agree. His turnaround came as a surprise to me. Beliefs are often stronger than aural perception when it comes to sound quality. I won a bet in the process, btw. His turnaround is rare and quite extreme, and it surprised me that he had the capacityto dismiss his old beliefs.

Which of the following solutions do you have solid experience with: Acourate, (Denis Spragion’s) DRC, Audiolense, Trinnov, Dirac Live? And where is your hard evidence?

And how about challenging your own beliefs? The demo allows you to measure, correct and listen to the first 90 seconds of how many tunes as you want.
 

juicehifi

Audiolense
Staff member
Joined
Feb 5, 2018
Messages
703
That's about the smartest post I've seen in a long time. Thanks.

But in addition to "everybody finally knows...", I add the authority of Toole's critique in recent years who says exactly the same thing. Which is why his Spinorama aims to identify ideal speakers in terms of freq but also all measurable aspects of directionality. But your ear learns the room so Uncle Harry always sounds the same in all rooms.

It may be that the Uncle Harry correction is not possible in the same way when the original sound is unknown (like all recordings, of course)... even if you do get to know your speakers in your room.

A somewhat separate issue is simply adaptation ("Burnt soup principle" - I like it when it is burnt like my mother's soup) to your regular room.

B.
Ben,

My response to Cary applies to you as well.

In addition:

I am very familiar with Toole’s research. I used it massively when I built my first pair of speakers? Have been using it for all speakers I’ve built actually.

When I designed Audiolense I expected to benefit from Toole’s research. However it turned out to be irrelevant since his main contributions lacked what I was after, which was the correlation between sweet spot measurements and sweet spot listening experiences. This has however been researched by others and the meta conclusión is that the correlation is very strong … without any disagreement.
 

Trdat

Member
Thread Starter
Joined
Nov 6, 2019
Messages
186
I just thought i'll add my 2 cents worth seeing that I started the thread.

Most DSP users are in a given capacity always treating their rooms, some better than others with many fully understandng how to battle SBIR, room modes and the touch of diffusion then using DSP for the icing on the cake. I do not think anyone is advocating DSP as the miracle fix.

From my research on acoustics it seems many furnished rooms with plaster boards already get a decent RT60, a well decaying filtered IR and an average FR and DSP can help a lot. My room is an apartement and has thick concrete walls and needed heaps of surface area covered and a bringing down of the reverberatent field but I aim to maintain strong refelctions or energy after about 6ms, I am pro reflections but controlled. Point is that I use random correction filters from measurements from when my room was orientated the other way but the correction filter still does justice when measuring from the sweet spot but yes I have a fairly decently treated room.

I would also like to add that Toole is a legend and his research no doubt has a place for specific arguments in this field and this thread but I feel the Scandinavians have been sidelined when there are technically just as advanced at this game. Ultimately I'm pro science so I believe more research has to be done to summarise many of the disagreements with DSP, even if there is no disagreements but more like a summary or research that is lacking not the research itself. Unfortunately we are left with subjective opinions from pro DSP camp when there is actually a whole corpous of evidence that tells us what we need.
 

juicehifi

Audiolense
Staff member
Joined
Feb 5, 2018
Messages
703
I fully agree with what you say about summarizing the science.

Here's a very brief summary on some relevant research.

First out is a fairly old study that addresses full range correction and even compares with anechoic correction. Measurements and subjective evaluations in and outside the sweet spot were used. This is IMO very high quality research by AES standard.

P. Hatziantoniou, J. Mourjopoulos, and J. Worley, "Subjective Assessments of Real-Time Room Dereverberation and Loudspeaker Equalization," Paper 6461, (2005 May.). doi:

Abstract:
Formal subjective tests of real-time room dereverberation using Complex Smoothing were conducted to assess the robustness and the validity of the method under real sound reproduction conditions. For comparison, anechoic, inverse loudspeaker real-time filtering was also subjected to assessment to decouple improvements due to the complex smoothing inverse room filtering and due to mere equalization of the loudspeakers. Results derived from a multivariate analysis of variance (MANOVA) of the test data, verify the conclusions detected in the past by the objective evaluation of the method e.g. significant improvement in sound quality and immunity to real-time processing artifacts independently of room size and listener position.

Mourjopoulos and colleges had done several papers related to in-room correction and the use of complex smoothing prior to this, and they all pointed in the same direction as the abstract above. This paper strongly indicates that a) in-room correction has merits also high at high frequencies and b) a correction based on sophisticated evaluation/smoothing techique is typically capable of improving sound quality outside the sweet spot as well as in it. As far as I know, the findings remain undisputed. The papers on complex smoothing was important input to the design of Audiolense in the early stages. Complex smoothing was not the end game here, but it was sufficient to disprove your working hypothesis.

And then we have Olive's first paper on room correction. It came a few years later. is less sophisticated, but nevertheless points in the same direction, showing a strong correlation between how it measures in the sweet spot and perceived sound quality .. across the whole frequency range.

S. Olive, J. Jackson, A. Devantier, and D. Hunt, "The Subjective and Objective Evaluation of Room Correction Products," Paper 7960, (2009 October.). doi:

In the proceeding years Sean Olive have done follow-ups on ideal in-room responses and ideal headphone responses, like this one:

S. Olive, T. Welti, and E. McMullin, "Listener Preferences for In-Room Loudspeaker and Headphone Target Responses," Paper 8994, (2013 October.). doi:

In this paper, even with close-to-perfect designed speaker, sweet-spot based correction is required to approach the ideal response in a frequency region where you guys question the merit of in-room correction.

As it happens, my personal preference is very much aligned with these research findings. I only prefer an even straighter target than the one found by Olive et al. But there are many who prefers something similar to the "Harman curve", with a varying degree of lift in the bass. And you may prefer the sound of a partial correction that does very little above Schroeder and possibly preserves more of the speakers' original character. Audiolense gives you the freedom of choice.
 

Tomeh

Registered
Joined
Mar 2, 2021
Messages
3
More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
Focusrite Pro40
Main Amp
Rotel RMB-1575
Additional Amp
Kii Audio
Computer Audio
J River
DAC
Focusrite Pro40
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
OPPO Bp-83
Front Speakers
Kii Three
Surround Speakers
Newform Research Linesource
Subwoofers
Newform Research Attack
Other Speakers or Equipment
XR-18, BP-2031A, DEQ2496,
Video Display Device
27" Touchsreen, 50" LCD, Epson Overhead
Screen
Dalite
Streaming Equipment
Mac Mini throught Focusrite Pro40
Streaming Subscriptions
Youtube
I fully agree with what you say about summarizing the science.

Here's a very brief summary on some relevant research.

First out is a fairly old study that addresses full range correction and even compares with anechoic correction. Measurements and subjective evaluations in and outside the sweet spot were used. This is IMO very high quality research by AES standard.

P. Hatziantoniou, J. Mourjopoulos, and J. Worley, "Subjective Assessments of Real-Time Room Dereverberation and Loudspeaker Equalization," Paper 6461, (2005 May.). doi:

Abstract:
Formal subjective tests of real-time room dereverberation using Complex Smoothing were conducted to assess the robustness and the validity of the method under real sound reproduction conditions. For comparison, anechoic, inverse loudspeaker real-time filtering was also subjected to assessment to decouple improvements due to the complex smoothing inverse room filtering and due to mere equalization of the loudspeakers. Results derived from a multivariate analysis of variance (MANOVA) of the test data, verify the conclusions detected in the past by the objective evaluation of the method e.g. significant improvement in sound quality and immunity to real-time processing artifacts independently of room size and listener position.

Mourjopoulos and colleges had done several papers related to in-room correction and the use of complex smoothing prior to this, and they all pointed in the same direction as the abstract above. This paper strongly indicates that a) in-room correction has merits also high at high frequencies and b) a correction based on sophisticated evaluation/smoothing techique is typically capable of improving sound quality outside the sweet spot as well as in it. As far as I know, the findings remain undisputed. The papers on complex smoothing was important input to the design of Audiolense in the early stages. Complex smoothing was not the end game here, but it was sufficient to disprove your working hypothesis.

And then we have Olive's first paper on room correction. It came a few years later. is less sophisticated, but nevertheless points in the same direction, showing a strong correlation between how it measures in the sweet spot and perceived sound quality .. across the whole frequency range.

S. Olive, J. Jackson, A. Devantier, and D. Hunt, "The Subjective and Objective Evaluation of Room Correction Products," Paper 7960, (2009 October.). doi:

In the proceeding years Sean Olive have done follow-ups on ideal in-room responses and ideal headphone responses, like this one:

S. Olive, T. Welti, and E. McMullin, "Listener Preferences for In-Room Loudspeaker and Headphone Target Responses," Paper 8994, (2013 October.). doi:

In this paper, even with close-to-perfect designed speaker, sweet-spot based correction is required to approach the ideal response in a frequency region where you guys question the merit of in-room correction.

As it happens, my personal preference is very much aligned with these research findings. I only prefer an even straighter target than the one found by Olive et al. But there are many who prefers something similar to the "Harman curve", with a varying degree of lift in the bass. And you may prefer the sound of a partial correction that does very little above Schroeder and possibly preserves more of the speakers' original character. Audiolense gives you the freedom of choice.


Thank you for your insight and experience in this area. Your summary is now going to save me hours of personal experiments with REW and my Kii Three's in my studio.

I shall look into audiolense to see how well I can integrate into my mixing and mastering systems.

Best regards,


Tom Althouse
 

yannick123

Registered
Joined
Mar 6, 2021
Messages
1
Cary, of course acoustical treatment is the best way to optimize your room. But claiming that DRC or equing cannot improve it, ist totally false and I have doubts you ever heard an well balanced equed / FIR filtered audio installation. You CAN overdo equing/correction and have terrible results, yes. Finetuning with ear is often required, yes. A linear response loudspeaker with an good/smooth polar measurement ist mostly the best starting point, yes. BUT: I use Acourate since 6 years and this gave me a whole new level in my audio experience. There is no single (!) treatment I can image which brings more optimization in total (!). I did this a dozen times in different (not acoustically treated) rooms with different loudspeakers. Also, you have a huge learning effect because you can easily experiment with different hearing curves / house curves which is a crucial point that many listeners misunderstand (simply because of the lack of experimentation with this, based on the irrational, nearly religious fear that equing is something bad and evil).

My point for the topic: Acourate measures on the hearing position. And you hear on the hearing position. So this should be logically your main correction focus, whatever optimization you do on top of this (acoustical treatment, better speakers, optimizing crossovers ...). It just makes no sense to insist on a nearfield measurement (although 100% useful while developing a loudspeaker) and acoustical treatment, because in real life 99.xx % of listeners simply don't listen in acoustically really well treated rooms. So accept the real life ... and equalize! And if you want more perfection: acoustically optimize your room - AND THEN EQUALIZE! :-)

Also many thanks to juicehifi for the insights and for programming Audiolense. I never used it but I'm shure that it's totally worth it's money.
 

Ofer

Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2021
Messages
247
More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
miniDSP 4x10hd
Main Amp
Emotiva XPR200 midrange amp
Additional Amp
Crest audio 2001A bass amp, Crest audio 8002 sub
Other Amp
Rotel RA930ax twitter amp
Computer Audio
Sony Bravia android TV
DAC
RME FF400
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
Marantz original 5E CD
Front Speakers
Andromeda MkII
Subwoofers
18" OEM powered subwoofer, 18" Martycube Dayton A.
Screen
Sony bravia 65XF9005
Streaming Subscriptions
Deezer HiFi
Other Equipment
HP i5 running W10, HLC convolver for Audio Lense filters
When using Audiolense for deciding xover points and slopes on an active system (3way or more) isn't it better to used nearfield measurements?
 

Ian Eales

Member
VIP Supporter
Joined
Aug 18, 2017
Messages
31
Location
Florence, Oregon
More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
marantz NR1711
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
LG BP335W Region Free
Front Speakers
RS Minimus 7
Center Channel Speaker
RS Minimus 7 x 2 wired in series
Surround Speakers
RS Minimus 7
Surround Back Speakers
TEAC LS-MC85
Subwoofers
Martin Logan 2x 800x
Other Speakers or Equipment
Triamped Eminent Tech LFT-8b music.
Screen
LG 65" OLED
Remote Control
TOO Many!
Other Equipment
VPI bricks, Transparent Link cables, De Mat Disc
My HiFi system is tri-amp w subs using ARC. Low end is rolled out of the woofers.

Nearfield measurements give driver response which act as a starting point.

Once the corners are obtained, IMO, it's an iterative process of adjusting the LP response by measurements and listening.
Driver, box and room interaction may dramatically affect response and final parameters differ markedly from the beginning.
 

Ofer

Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2021
Messages
247
More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
miniDSP 4x10hd
Main Amp
Emotiva XPR200 midrange amp
Additional Amp
Crest audio 2001A bass amp, Crest audio 8002 sub
Other Amp
Rotel RA930ax twitter amp
Computer Audio
Sony Bravia android TV
DAC
RME FF400
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
Marantz original 5E CD
Front Speakers
Andromeda MkII
Subwoofers
18" OEM powered subwoofer, 18" Martycube Dayton A.
Screen
Sony bravia 65XF9005
Streaming Subscriptions
Deezer HiFi
Other Equipment
HP i5 running W10, HLC convolver for Audio Lense filters
My HiFi system is tri-amp w subs using ARC. Low end is rolled out of the woofers.

Nearfield measurements give driver response which act as a starting point.

Once the corners are obtained, IMO, it's an iterative process of adjusting the LP response by measurements and listening.
Driver, box and room interaction may dramatically affect response and final parameters differ markedly from the beginning.
What exactly do you mean "corners are obtained"?
Did you change xover points between nearfield measurements and LP measurements?
 

Ian Eales

Member
VIP Supporter
Joined
Aug 18, 2017
Messages
31
Location
Florence, Oregon
More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
marantz NR1711
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
LG BP335W Region Free
Front Speakers
RS Minimus 7
Center Channel Speaker
RS Minimus 7 x 2 wired in series
Surround Speakers
RS Minimus 7
Surround Back Speakers
TEAC LS-MC85
Subwoofers
Martin Logan 2x 800x
Other Speakers or Equipment
Triamped Eminent Tech LFT-8b music.
Screen
LG 65" OLED
Remote Control
TOO Many!
Other Equipment
VPI bricks, Transparent Link cables, De Mat Disc
"Corners" are where the individual drivers cease to be linear either dropping level or rising in distortion.

I did change xover points between nearfield and LP measurements.

Speakers are Eminent Tech LFT-8b.
First pass was to emulate the stock XO to ascertain feasibility of 2x miniDSP 2x4HD as XO.

Next pass to measure drivers in quasi-anechoic mode to get driver characteristics.

Next pass to measure drivers at intervals between driver and LP to ascertain room interactions.

Next pass was Moving Mic @ LP to smooth out room issues

Final adjustments from program.
 

Ofer

Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2021
Messages
247
More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
miniDSP 4x10hd
Main Amp
Emotiva XPR200 midrange amp
Additional Amp
Crest audio 2001A bass amp, Crest audio 8002 sub
Other Amp
Rotel RA930ax twitter amp
Computer Audio
Sony Bravia android TV
DAC
RME FF400
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
Marantz original 5E CD
Front Speakers
Andromeda MkII
Subwoofers
18" OEM powered subwoofer, 18" Martycube Dayton A.
Screen
Sony bravia 65XF9005
Streaming Subscriptions
Deezer HiFi
Other Equipment
HP i5 running W10, HLC convolver for Audio Lense filters
Interesting speaker. If I understand correctly, which I doubt, it should be less affected by the room than a conventional cone speaker. It is interesting that you change xover settings between nearfield and LP. Do you do all this in Audiolence? Do you integrate the sub with audiolence as well?
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom