macOS convolver that works with Audiolense

perceval

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There is integration with streaming services using JRiver. I'm sorry as I have not looked into this seriously. I mostly use it for watching video files, or streaming internet music. Both work well using convolution.

A nifty feature is that JRiver will adjust the bitrate of a wav file using convolution to the bitrate of the audio playing.

On the Windows side, they have access to JRiver taking control of the audio output of the PC... that is not something possible at the moment using a Mac.
 

2234rew

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There is integration with streaming services using JRiver. I'm sorry as I have not looked into this seriously. I mostly use it for watching video files, or streaming internet music. Both work well using convolution.
No worries. The solution I need , needs to work with any system sound. So not limited. This opens up every video and music streaming service - just like Audiolens Convolver 1.1 works for me using Win10.

On the Windows side, they have access to JRiver taking control of the audio output of the PC... that is not something possible at the moment using a Mac.
This is a dealbreaker then. If JRiver can't output Netflix audio to my Focusrite 18i20Gen3 on macOS, then it's not the solution I'm looking for.
 

perceval

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I am not sure if it can, I haven't researched it. I know you can play YT video from inside JRiver, but I don't know how far the integration goes. You can download JRiver for free for 30 days. You can try it yourself. Easy way to find out.
 

hulkss

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On my new M1 Mac Mini I am building DSP solutions in "Plogue Bidule" and routing audio as needed into and out of Bidule with "Rogue Amoeba Loopback".

X-volver is a convolver plug-in that should get the job done on a Mac with Bidule. Sorry, the forum won't let me post links.
 

2234rew

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On my new M1 Mac Mini I am building DSP solutions in "Plogue Bidule" and routing audio as needed into and out of Bidule with "Rogue Amoeba Loopback".
Thanks! I have Loopback.

I also have their Audio Hijack program which supports AU plugins as well as routing , all in one

So if X-volver can do 8 mono channels convolution that should be a solution with just Audio hijack + X-volver

The difficulty has been finding a convolver plugin that does 8 mono channels
 
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hulkss

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I have not used X-volver yet. I am waiting for MOTU to release new drivers for Big Sur and Apple Silicon. In Windows 10 I use 16 channels of output on a MOTU 16A.

JRiver has a Native Apple Silicon version that is available as a Beta release. It seems to be working pretty well already but it cannot accept audio from other applications so I will play JRiver and other apps through Bidule.
 

2234rew

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I have not used X-volver yet
I can't get Plogue Bidule to see the vst3 file of X-Volver. It's in the correct location of /Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/VST3

I get macOS security warnings that it is malware and even in macOS 11.1 System Preferences -> Security & Privacy I press 'open anyway' but it does nothing.

I emailed the developer so hopefully there's a way to get it working
 

2234rew

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Ladies and Gentlemen

I have a working solution :-)

So @hulkss I got in touch with X-volver dev and he said it is now obsolete !

He said the new convolver (still free!) is better, faster, more channels:

X-MCFX Convolver: http://www.angelofarina.it/Public/X-MCFX_convolver/

I had lots of trouble getting Plogue Bigule to work with Loop Back trial

So I remember Dirac Live recommended "Black Hole" for a virtual audio device driver on macOS (Free):


There is 2 channel and 16 channel input versions of Black Hole

So that is now my Core Audio input.

Using a VST3 host plugin called Element (again a recommendation of Dirac Live - costs $2) output can be set directly to my Core Audio USB DAC which in this case is RME ADI-2 DAC (just testing convolution with headphones at the moment).


I had to use Audacity to create a 'custom matrix' impulse response WAV file, which was easy.

Its working with 2 channels and should work fine with 128 channels I believe LOL

I'll test 8 channels later

I only need to use 1 program which is great ! Lower system resources

@juicehifi if anyone asks, send them here !

I am using macoS 11.1 Big Sur Intel CPU - I can't say if it works on macOS Big Sure M1 - hopefully someone with an M1 will eventually test.

Screen Shot 2021-01-25 at 12.13.58 am.png
Screen Shot 2021-01-25 at 12.13.28 am.png
 

hulkss

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I can't get Plogue Bidule to see the vst3 file of X-Volver. It's in the correct location of /Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/VST3

I get macOS security warnings that it is malware and even in macOS 11.1 System Preferences -> Security & Privacy I press 'open anyway' but it does nothing.

I emailed the developer so hopefully there's a way to get it working
I found the following info and it worked well for me:

The problem with some audio plug-ins on a Mac is that Gatekeeper has become more aggressive and now also blocks VSTs. Gatekeeper is what keeps MacOS users from inadvertently launching unsigned apps downloaded from the internet. Just like in previous versions of MacOS you can make Gatekeeper allow downloaded applications by right-clicking them and then holding down shift and clicking open. This presents you with a new button named “open” that will permanently allow the application to run. Another way of doing the same thing is trying to launch an unsigned application, and when it fails go into System Preferences > Privacy & Security where the application is listed and you can “Allow anyway”.

The problem is, a VST is runnable code but it’s not an application. VSTs that come with installers normally work, but those that are just VSTs don’t. When you do a rescan of VST paths the blocked VSTs are listed in Privacy & Security but clicking “Allow anyway” does nothing. You can right-click and shift-open the VST outside of the DAW, which actually provides you with the third button labeled open, but that doesn’t help. You can go into the VST with is actually a directory, find the executable file and shift open that too – but that’s not the solution either.

After running the commands below you will be able to re-scan your VST paths and use your VSTs. What this does is that it clears file attributes that mark downloaded files as unsafe and put in quarantine – exactly the same as when you shift open an application and click the “open” button.

I’ve seen a lot of alternative solutions including permanently disabling Gatekeeper (not recommended!) or workarounds that have to be redone after every reboot.

To de-quarantine your plug-in folders copy and paste the following commands into a terminal window:

For VSTs enter:
sudo xattr -rd com.apple.quarantine /Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/VST/*

For VST3s enter:
sudo xattr -rd com.apple.quarantine /Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/VST3/*

For AUs enter:
sudo xattr -rd com.apple.quarantine /Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/Components/*

Probably a good idea to follow up with a reboot.
 

2234rew

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I found the following info and it worked well for me:

The problem with some audio plug-ins on a Mac is that Gatekeeper has become more aggressive and now also blocks VSTs. Gatekeeper is what keeps MacOS users from inadvertently launching unsigned apps downloaded from the internet. Just like in previous versions of MacOS you can make Gatekeeper allow downloaded applications by right-clicking them and then holding down shift and clicking open. This presents you with a new button named “open” that will permanently allow the application to run. Another way of doing the same thing is trying to launch an unsigned application, and when it fails go into System Preferences > Privacy & Security where the application is listed and you can “Allow anyway”.

The problem is, a VST is runnable code but it’s not an application. VSTs that come with installers normally work, but those that are just VSTs don’t. When you do a rescan of VST paths the blocked VSTs are listed in Privacy & Security but clicking “Allow anyway” does nothing. You can right-click and shift-open the VST outside of the DAW, which actually provides you with the third button labeled open, but that doesn’t help. You can go into the VST with is actually a directory, find the executable file and shift open that too – but that’s not the solution either.

After running the commands below you will be able to re-scan your VST paths and use your VSTs. What this does is that it clears file attributes that mark downloaded files as unsafe and put in quarantine – exactly the same as when you shift open an application and click the “open” button.

I’ve seen a lot of alternative solutions including permanently disabling Gatekeeper (not recommended!) or workarounds that have to be redone after every reboot.

To de-quarantine your plug-in folders copy and paste the following commands into a terminal window:

For VSTs enter:
sudo xattr -rd com.apple.quarantine /Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/VST/*

For VST3s enter:
sudo xattr -rd com.apple.quarantine /Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/VST3/*

For AUs enter:
sudo xattr -rd com.apple.quarantine /Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/Components/*

Probably a good idea to follow up with a reboot.

Thanks ! I got VST3 to work fine following similar steps, to get past Gatekeeper.

But I much prefer the $2 program 'Element' to Plogue Bidule - at least for the simple use I need - just simple routing from one up to interface)

And it's UI is so much easier.

Plus less systems resources - one app to handle convolution and routing to interface.

It's working very well !
 

hulkss

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I'll look at Element, thanks. I'm not sure about Black Hole on my M1 processor so I'll stick with Loopback unless it gives me trouble. Also, I sometimes use more than 16 channels.
 

2234rew

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I'll look at Element, thanks. I'm not sure about Black Hole on my M1 processor so I'll stick with Loopback unless it gives me trouble. Also, I sometimes use more than 16 channels.
Actually you made me check if M1 is supported because I'll be getting an M1 Mac Mini soon.

And yes, Black Hole is native on Apple Silicon too

But if you use more than 16 channels input then it won't work

Out of interest, what are you using more than 16 channels input for, with Audiolense? Or is that for a different use?

Screen Shot 2021-01-25 at 10.45.06 am.png
 

hulkss

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I'm using active XO in 3-way front speakers, that's nine channels, four surround channels plus 5 subwoofers makes 18 channels if I control all the subwoofers separately.
 

2234rew

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I'm using active XO in 3-way front speakers, that's nine channels, four surround channels plus 5 subwoofers makes 18 channels if I control all the subwoofers separately.
Wowza that's impressive.

I use DSP XO 3-way also plus 2 subs, so just 8 channels. I thought this was complex but you win :-)

But the limitation with Black Hole is 16 channel input - do you have source material more than 16 channels, where you would need more than 16 channels input?

Or are you mapping 2 channels or 5.1 channels to 18 channels ? If so, then Black Hole would be fine?
 

hulkss

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I would be sending 7 or 8 source channels to the convolver depending on how I handle the LFE channel. The convolver will create 18 loudspeaker channels that go to a MOTU audio interface. Will that be possible with Black Hole? Actually, I could mix the convolver output down to 16 channels in Element or Bidule before routing out to the MOTU. I have been doing the mixing in the MOTU interface.
 

2234rew

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I would be sending 7 or 8 source channels to the convolver depending on how I handle the LFE channel. The convolver will create 18 loudspeaker channels that go to a MOTU audio interface. Will that be possible with Black Hole? Actually, I could mix the convolver output down to 16 channels in Element or Bidule before routing out to the MOTU. I have been doing the mixing in the MOTU interface.
Yes as mentioned Black Hole supports up to 16 channels input.

We are both only using Black Hole as an audio input (virtual audio device). Not used as an output.

You only need 18 channels output supported by Element and the convolver (if using my current setup).
 

hulkss

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Ok. Have Black Hole, Element and the X-MCFX_convolver. More options than I know what to do with at this point.
Could you explain a little about "use Audacity to create a 'custom matrix' impulse response WAV file"
 
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2234rew

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More options than I know what to do with at this point.
LOL this is a good problem to have.

Until yesterday I wasn't aware of anything working. I only had some suggestions of what might work.

Regarding creating single wav file matrix (which is what this convolver needs), First in Audacity preferences , under export choose the advanced options box.

when you select the multiple mono tracks in Audacity, you choose to export all files .

Choose the usual 32bit float options and wav and When it's time to export you will have a screen to create one wav file.

Then in the convolver choose that wav file and select "diagonal values",

It seems to work for me .

I can try to create multiple blocks of just single mono blocks to see if that works the same. In case the matrix doesnt work for complex setups. i only mastered it for 2 channels so far.

I would share screenshots of all the above but as i type on iPad i am wiping my Macbook Air 2020 clean and posting to new buyer today. My new Mac Mini M1 arrives Friday so i will try all this on weekend

Are you trying Element and Black Hole now?
 

hulkss

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Just experimenting at this time as MOTU does not have a Big Sur driver available. I'm trying to converge on my favorite HTPC audio solution in Windows and then achieve the same result on my M1 Mac mini. BTW: The OWC Ministack external Hard Drive matches the Mini perfectly. I bought one empty and put in an 8 TB Drive. One volume for Time Machine and a volume for music and video files.
 

2234rew

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Just experimenting at this time as MOTU does not have a Big Sur driver available. I'm trying to converge on my favorite HTPC audio solution in Windows and then achieve the same result on my M1 Mac mini. BTW: The OWC Ministack external Hard Drive matches the Mini perfectly. I bought one empty and put in an 8 TB Drive. One volume for Time Machine and a volume for music and video files.
Yes Im doing the same. I know Audiolense Convolver 1.1 on Win10 works great.

But i hate Windows.

Im so happy i have a working solution but ill test M1 and 8 channels when my Mac Mini arrives

No latency and very low on system resources.

And no need to use Parallels Desktop on macOS to run Windows !
 

2234rew

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And actually with Win10 i need to use the very old Virtual Cable ASIO HiFi Bridge.

It mostly works but can be a pain when it doesn't.

And I personally hate JRiver but I mainly stream music and movies, I don't have or need a big hard drive of media.

For my use case anyway the macOS solution is way more slim lined than Win10, even if I can't use one simple .alc Audiolense Convolution file .

Very happy so far.
 

hulkss

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I use the DTS Neural Surround Upmix plug-in to create 7.0 or 7.1 from stereo. It works fantastic. I have a wide sound stage that really benefits from a center speaker (especially for listeners not in the center sweet spot) and the surround ambience is good too.
 

2234rew

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I use the DTS Neural Surround Upmix plug-in to create 7.0 or 7.1 from stereo. It works fantastic. I have a wide sound stage that really benefits from a center speaker (especially for listeners not in the center sweet spot) and the surround ambience is good too.
Wow I was actually going to start a separate thread about DTS and Atmos.

Is that an "official" DTS upmixer?

Or like an emulator? Would an AVR show the incoming signal is DTS?

I imagine it costs $ ?

And is there an Atmos one ?
 

2234rew

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You can find it here: https://www.waves.com/bundles/dts-neural-surround-collection.

It was developed by DTS (see attachment). My media files are mostly concert videos. In almost all cases I use the stereo sound track and up-mix with the plug-in. Most music surround mixes have problems. Movies surround, where LFE is special effects only, are usually fine.
This is awesome.

I want to add a center speaker - kind of an essential for TV or movie.

I imagine this DTS upmixer will do better than other crossfeed options? Even for simple L, R and C setup.
 
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