Help me decide please?

[pratul]

My theater is 33.83 x 13.83 x 8.86 Feet (3941 Cu Ft.). I currently have two M&K 5000 Mk2 subs which produce pretty decent bass but I want more
I am currently considering SVS subs.
I used the SVS Sub matching tool and it recommends either the SB/PB-3000 or the SB/PB-4000 to go with my current speakers. However, when I emailed SVS all my details they recommended two PB-1000s because they are ported just like my current subs (they are not) and are close to the power rating of my current subs. So, I am confused.

Initially, I want to use my current subs along with the new subs. However, in the future, I might just sell the M&K subs and if needed, replace them with 2 more SVSs. Depends on the room modes and if more are needed to address them.

Hoping folks more knowledgeable than me can help with the following questions:

1. Sealed vs Ported: My current subs are of the push-pull design, per M&K they are "sealed" and not ported. Will a ported design compliment them or create problems? I am also thinking if I get a ported design sub, I can always plug the ports if they end up being an issue. Correct?
2. Power Matching: Do the new subs have to match the power handling capacity of the current subs? My current subs are rated for 400W RMS. If I get more powerful subs, they just might not work as hard if I set all to produce identical output or I can set them up to be the primary and the existing ones filling in the gaps. What do you recommend?
3. Power capacity: Is there a recommended power based on room volume? How much power do I need for ~4000 cu. Ft.?

Other considerations:
Size: Doesn't matter. I have enough room to take in large subs.
Cost: Not really an issue but would like to stay below $2000 - $2500 per sub

What do you guys recommend?

 

[Sonnie Parker]

Your cubic volume is a little bit larger than mine... and I have 4x SB16-Ultras and 2x PB16-Ultras. Granted I don't need them all, but the response is very good down low without any filtering. I only use the PB's when watching movies... added to the SB's, although the level is higher for the PB's.

If cost is not an issue... why not go all out and get either a pair of SB16's or PB16's ($2500 each). If you favor music more, I might lean towards the SB16's... if it's not that big of a deal, go PB16's... which wills till sound fabulous on music. You'll be done with wondering if you have enough and you should also have plenty of headroom.

At minimum I would go with the SB/PB-4000's.

I would not try to combine the M&K's with the SVS subs. You might get them level matched, but at varying volumes your combined frequencies may vary too much. Once you get the new subs you can test it. Level match them at 85dB... then measure their combined response at 75dB, 85dB and 100dB... and see how they differ. If you do that with the same model sub, the response won't change... but do it with different models, the response will vary in most cases.

 

[pratul]

Your cubic volume is a little bit larger than mine... and I have 4x SB16-Ultras and 2x PB16-Ultras. Granted I don't need them all, but the response is very good down low without any filtering. I only use the PB's when watching movies... added to the SB's, although the level is higher for the PB's.

If cost is not an issue... why not go all out and get either a pair of SB16's or PB16's ($2500 each). If you favor music more, I might lean towards the SB16's... if it's not that big of a deal, go PB16's... which wills till sound fabulous on music. You'll be done with wondering if you have enough and you should also have plenty of headroom.

At minimum I would go with the SB/PB-4000's.

I would not try to combine the M&K's with the SVS subs. You might get them level matched, but at varying volumes your combined frequencies may vary too much. Once you get the new subs you can test it. Level match them at 85dB... then measure their combined response at 75dB, 85dB and 100dB... and see how they differ. If you do that with the same model sub, the response won't change... but do it with different models, the response will vary in most cases.

Thanks Sonnie! As always good advice .

Ordered two PB16s. Figured I can always plug the ports for it to work like a sealed sub.
Now I need to get a MiniDSP or something to handle the multiple subs.
I am looking at the MiniDSP 2x4 HD and DDRC-24 (2x4 HD + Dirac live)... Do I need Dirac Live for subs? 2x4 HD should be good ... right?

 

[Sonnie Parker]

Congrats... you'll love those subs. I've had 4 of them in my room in years past... crazy output for sure.

I would get Dirac if at all possible... if nothing else but to handle the area below about 4x your transition frequency... probably in the 500-600Hz area where the room has a lot of influence on the response. It will allow you to easily setup a couple of different target curves to experiment with.

 

[pratul]

Congrats... you'll love those subs. I've had 4 of them in my room in years past... crazy output for sure.

I would get Dirac if at all possible... if nothing else but to handle the area below about 4x your transition frequency... probably in the 500-600Hz area where the room has a lot of influence on the response. It will allow you to easily setup a couple of different target curves to experiment with.

But.. if I am using it to split the two sub outputs to 4 (and to config them independently) am I not limited to cross over and below (maybe a bit higher due to the rolloff curve) and below 120 hz for LFE?

 

[Sonnie Parker]

Dirac will do full range... and you can adjust the response it corrects with the curtains. That has nothing to do with how you setup your subs. Dirac will know if they are independent.

 

[pratul]

Dirac will do full range... and you can adjust the response it corrects with the curtains. That has nothing to do with how you setup your subs. Dirac will know if they are independent.

hmm. maybe you are talking about DDRC-88A? I thought you meant DDRC-24 that I mentioned above. DDRC-24 has Dirac but with the same device as the miniDSP 2x4 HD. That has 2 inputs and 4 outputs.
I was thinking about DDRC-24 or MiniDSP 2x4 HD to handle the subs while using ARC on my pre-processor to handle everything else.

 

[Sonnie Parker]

If you are doing a surround setup using your AVM70 and not only two-channel, then no, you really don't need Dirac. You can use the 2x4 for your subs and use ARC for the entire system.

You'll have enough PEQ filters to manually take care of any issues with the subs.

For some reason I was thinking two-channel.

 

[Dirk Wessely]

You might want to check out TBI . Call Jan and ask him about the Emperor sub. Best subs in my book. I heard the Magellan subs with Magnepans, only sub I know that can keep up with fast moving panels.

 

[StrokerAce]

Thanks Sonnie! As always good advice .

Ordered two PB16s. Figured I can always plug the ports for it to work like a sealed sub.
Now I need to get a MiniDSP or something to handle the multiple subs.
I am looking at the MiniDSP 2x4 HD and DDRC-24 (2x4 HD + Dirac live)... Do I need Dirac Live for subs? 2x4 HD should be good ... right?

I bought a DDRC-24 4 months ago and it is only a paperweight for me. Mind you, there is NOTHING wrong with it. I own an integrated amp and had contacted miniDSP about what product I needed for room correction. This is what they recommended. After I got it I discovered there was no way to make it compatable so while it works fine it is useless to me. It will work with a receiver or separates (amp and pre) but not integrated. I will sell it and the umik-1 to you cheap.

 

[pratul]

I bought a DDRC-24 4 months ago and it is only a paperweight for me. Mind you, there is NOTHING wrong with it. I own an integrated amp and had contacted miniDSP about what product I needed for room correction. This is what they recommended. After I got it I discovered there was no way to make it compatable so while it works fine it is useless to me. It will work with a receiver or separates (amp and pre) but not integrated. I will sell it and the umik-1 to you cheap.

Thanks but I already got mine.

 

[w_sizer]

I bought a DDRC-24 4 months ago and it is only a paperweight for me. Mind you, there is NOTHING wrong with it. I own an integrated amp and had contacted miniDSP about what product I needed for room correction. This is what they recommended. After I got it I discovered there was no way to make it compatable so while it works fine it is useless to me. It will work with a receiver or separates (amp and pre) but not integrated. I will sell it and the umik-1 to you cheap.

Does your integrated amp have preamp out and main in connections? I use those for connecting the DDRC-24 to my integrated, and it works perfectly.

 

[gatestick]

Stroker, I am interested in the ddrc-24 with the microphone. I have the regular 2x4hd and have been wondering how much of a difference there would be. A spare microphone seems like a good idea. I don't know if we can contact one another privately on this site.

 

[StrokerAce]

Does your integrated amp have preamp out and main in connections? I use those for connecting the DDRC-24 to my integrated, and it works perfectly.

Does your integrated amp have preamp out and main in connections? I use those for connecting the DDRC-24 to my integrated, and it works perfectly.

I do. Do you have to have the DDRC remote to be able to operate your integrated?

 

[StrokerAce]

Stroker, I am interested in the ddrc-24 with the microphone. I have the regular 2x4hd and have been wondering how much of a difference there would be. A spare microphone seems like a good idea. I don't know if we can contact one another privately on this site.

2318182622

 

[w_sizer]

I do. Do you have to have the DDRC remote to be able to operate your integrated?

My DDRC remote operates the volume on the integrated, but I don’t think you have to have it in order for the DDRC to work, as it was an optional accessory. If you haven’t already done so, you may want to follow up with miniDSP customer support.

 

[StrokerAce]

The remote for the DDRC was an added charge and I didn't think I'd need one. I don't know how you'd even be able to set levels for Dirac hooked up through the integrated as described. It would negate the remote for the Integrated wouldn't it?

 

[w_sizer]

The remote for the DDRC was an added charge and I didn't think I'd need one. I don't know how you'd even be able to set levels for Dirac hooked up through the integrated as described. It would negate the remote for the Integrated wouldn't it?

You set levels for taking measurements inside the Dirac software using your laptop; no remote is involved in that process. For the most part, the DDRC remote is only used for adjusting volume while playing music and selecting which presets/projects you want to use for playback EQ. Without the remote, you would need to open Dirac on your laptop each time you want to switch to a different preset. To be honest, I think the remote is rather essential from the standpoint of convenience, and I highly recommend that you get one.
I still occasionally use the integrated amp remote for functions other than volume control, but to a certain extent, you’re right: it will become somewhat superfluous once you incorporate the DDRC remote.

 

[pratul]

Got the two PB16! they are heavy! I am getting enough of a workout moving them around

Tried to move one of them to the back but couldn't get it over the step . So for now they will stay in the front.
Even with both in the front and even before doing anything they sound amazing! Thanks @Sonnie for the help deciding.

 

[Dirk Wessely]

I had a TBI sub for many years and it is indistinguishable from your speakers in the room. The only way you can tell there is a sub is if you turn off the speakers and here the sub playing by itself. Perfect integration. Unfortunately I blew mine by hooking up a 1000 watt Dayton amp

Why not getting it fixed?

 

[Sonnie Parker]

Tried to move one of them to the back but couldn't get it over the step . So for now they will stay in the front.

Wrap it in a blanket and roll it.

 

[pratul]

Got pretty good results with the two subs, MiniDSP and ARC. I setup minidsp to cut the high areas and boost a max of 2db.
I did bump up the sub a bit after I took this measurement. Sounds awesome!

 

[Sonnie Parker]

Yeah... that would sound like no bass and a bit bright to me... but I do like my bass heavy.