Have you heard a difference when bi-amping your speakers?

[Todd Anderson]

curious to read experiences. I've not heard a difference, but recognize the speakers I've tried it with may simply not have been capable of expressing a difference.

What say you?

 

[Tony V.]

Nope, Ive had my living room speakers (Mission 765) bi amped for years now and it never changed the difference in sound when I did it. Just haven't bothered to change it back.

 

[Sonnie]

I don't think it would change the sound, unless you are underpowering your speakers considerably and cranking them up to extreme levels to where they are clipping the amp, at which time bi-amping them might keep the amp from clipping, thus allowing the speaker to play loud without adverse effects.

 

[Todd Anderson]

I've read - in fairly well known publications - references to improved clarity and dynamic range... improved fidelity.

I'm in the camp, Sonnie, that you might get a benefit from not being in a position to push an amp into distortion because amp channels are essentially being asked to address a smaller load. But, from my experience, I've never heard a night and day difference.

 

[Tony V.]

There are some who believe that separating the signals reduces harmonics introduced in the path but I really have a tough time believing that. as far as power a tweeter draws at most 10-15 watts and that would be at ear bleeding levels so also a tough pill to swallow.

 

[Mark C Flick]

I have but the difference was not due to bi-amping. I attribute the difference to more gain at the woofer or mids/tweeter. Was kinda fun to play around with for a while but, in the end, I decided the guy who designed my speakers knows a lot more about them than I do.

 

[ddude003]

I'm a little confused here... Maybe someone could clarify whats and hows? Source, pre, amp/s, speakers and crossovers? Seems like there are many permutations that could make or break the magic... For instance what about a tube amp to drive the high/mids and a ss amp to drive the mids/lows... Are we talking about a horizontal or a vertical bi-amp configuration? How/do mono-blocks fit into this? And what about subs driven by their own amps? I drive my sub, which has a 300 watt class AB amp, from my pre... What is the use of a can of worms if you don't open it? 8^)

I think that Sonnies ML Expressions are "technically" tri-amped...

 

[Tony V.]

The bigger question is "is the juice worth the squeeze"?
Sure some (very few) people will have the cash to set up all the below listed items but most do not so kind of a mute point.

Source, pre, amp/s, speakers and crossovers? Seems like there are many permutations that could make or break the magic... For instance what about a tube amp to drive the high/mids and a ss amp to drive the mids/lows... Are we talking about a horizontal or a vertical bi-amp configuration?

How/do mono-blocks fit into this? And what about subs driven by their own amps? I drive my sub, which has a 300 watt class AB amp, from my pre...

Not sure how these fit into this discussion

 

[NBPK402]

I bi-amp, but in my situation there is no other way for me to do my setup without going to a custom analog crossover.

 

[Todd Anderson]

I'm a little confused here... Maybe someone could clarify whats and hows? Source, pre, amp/s, speakers and crossovers? Seems like there are many permutations that could make or break the magic... For instance what about a tube amp to drive the high/mids and a ss amp to drive the mids/lows... Are we talking about a horizontal or a vertical bi-amp configuration? How/do mono-blocks fit into this? And what about subs driven by their own amps? I drive my sub, which has a 300 watt class AB amp, from my pre... What is the use of a can of worms if you don't open it? 8^)

I think that Sonnies ML Expressions are "technically" tri-amped...

I wasn't thinking along the lines of those kinds of variables... more or less SS amp involvement. You make a good point though, if your ears tell you a tube amp adds a hint of warmth to you system, you could certainly split the two.

Do you bi-amp?

 

[Todd Anderson]

I bi-amp, but in my situation there is no other way for me to do my setup without going to a custom analog crossover.

Do tell!

 

[S2000 Nirvana]

I have heard it's more of the placebo effect more than anything. Just curious if a dedicated amplifier may be a better option than bi wiring or bi amping for example.

A buddy just let me borrow a NAD 2200 to power my fronts and while my pioneer elite sc 27 does great I can certainly see a difference with a dedicated power amp. A lot more watts going to 4 ohm speakers now. They definitely seem more lively now for sure...this amp bridged gives a ton more wattage as well and have not tried this yet but don't see a need.

 

[Todd Anderson]

Certainly, if you are under-feeding your speakers, you can hear a difference when pumping them with super clean/robust power.

What kind of speakers are you running?

 

[S2000 Nirvana]

Certainly, if you are under-feeding your speakers, you can hear a difference when pumping them with super clean/robust power.

What kind of speakers are you running?

I have been running Definitive technology BP 10s for a while and believe they are 8 ohm with a def tech clr 2000 center. I am probably selling those and going with KEF signature series Model 1 fronts.

These KEFS are 4 ohm and that was the only reason I was looking for a dedicated amp as my pioneer elite sc 27 was not rated for 4 ohm.

That being said they are certainly different with the dedicated amp. I've tried both and they both seem to play larger than they are. The KEFS seem to be a little more natural sounding and more musical with vocals for sure and that could be the Q design tweeters on the KEFS. I'm now waiting to see how the KEFS perform with movies in surround sound.

Now I need to find a stand or something to raise those white kefs up a bit.

 

[Todd Anderson]

I think your SC27 should be able to handle those KEFs, but it might be a heavy load. That image of the speaker posts... doesn't appear to be bi-amped?

 

[S2000 Nirvana]

I think your SC27 should be able to handle those KEFs, but it might be a heavy load. That image of the speaker posts... doesn't appear to be bi-amped?

Yes I do think the sc 27 can handle the duty but just didn't want to over work it unnecessarily. I have not bi amped or bi wired my speakers yet and would like some opinions on bi wiring.

 

[Todd Anderson]

I can understand that. Most AVRs (like the SC27) can natively handle the load...but if you like to play things loud, you might hear a cleaner top end as you approach reference levels.

Here's an interesting bit of text taken from Cambridge Audio:

At Cambridge Audio all of our modern speakers do not have the capacity to be bi-wired. We always want to offer our customers the best possible components in our products, rather than adding an extra set of terminals to the speakers we would rather invest in a better crossover. This philosophy also extends to our views on wiring. Rather than spending your hard earned cash on two sets of mediocre wires that can be bi-wired into a speaker, why not single wire using some really great speaker cable? This is also more space effective as you don’t get the tangling mess of cables at the back of your hi-fi set up which can often come with bi-wiring.

There is a lot of discussion around this topic; in fact you’ll find yourself a little lost in a sea of online forums about it! Some believe that bi-wiring is purely a marketing ploy, often referred to as ‘buy wiring’, whilst others believe it makes a noticeable impact particularly to middle range sound. We made the decision not to build our speakers with a bi-wiring option so we can focus on making the components inside of our products the best they can be.

 

[Todd Anderson]

I guess my only objection would be this notion of "really great speaker wire."

 

[S2000 Nirvana]

I currently use Audio quest type 4...I got a pretty deal years ago from one call. I think they are in Spokane, WA. I didn't need a long run for my center and fronts. I did get a decent deal on the type 2 for the surrounds.

I have seen some speaker cable that's just ridiculous in price. My thought is save the money for audio/video items that will make a diffwrence. My Cap 118HT was one of those items that made a night and day difference.

Now whether or not it makes a night and day difference compared to to cheaper cable I don't know. I do know that there is a huge mark up on HDMI cable. I usually stick to Amazon or monoprice for decent HDMI cable.

 

[ddude003]

Lets see if I can get caught up here...

Price of amps seems to have hit a low of around 1$ per watt... So I don't think price is an issue with bi-amping... It seems like you can go from cheep to the sky is the limit...

There are many AVRs that are multi-channel (5.1 and above) that may have a bi-amp feature... Like running a 7.2 as a 5.2 bi-amped... I think in this case you would hear little difference in bi-amping although in fact you would be creating a bit better spec in distortion by having less dynamic load from each driver(s)...

I have in the past horizontally bi-amped with tube and ss amps and speakers such as McIntosh and Crown with JBL, Klipsch and Altec-Lansing and even a Leslie... And yes you can hear a difference...

With all our various stereo and HT system configurations, I wonder what you would now call bi(or more)amping... Where or how do you draw the line? In the strictest sense bi-amping used to be two or more amps driving two or more driver components in a single cabinet or enclosure... Now with multi-channel AVRs and Amps, Hybrid speakers and powered subs it all blurs...

In my own case I now run center and surrounds from an 7.1+2 AVR and the front L&R thru a tube preamp to an SS amp and powered sub... Is it "technically" bi-amped?

Lastly, power, interconnect, and speaker cables do matter... Just ask Maxwell and Faraday... 8^) Can you hear the difference with your ears and in your system? Maybe or not so much...

Cordially...

 

[Todd Anderson]

I'm a believer in being able to hear differences, so don't take my question the wrong way:

Have you attempted to capture room measurements?
What kind of differences are you hearing?

 

[ddude003]

I'm a believer in being able to hear differences, so don't take my question the wrong way:

No worries...

Have you attempted to capture room measurements?

Yes, I use Room EQ Wizard...

What kind of differences are you hearing?

Not really sure about your question here... I hear differences in various bi/mulit-amping configurations, speaker and sub placement, room acoustics and treatments, and power, interconnect, and speaker cables... Oh, and tubes... 8^)

And... I can usually see the difference with REW...

Cordially...

 

[Tony V.]

your opening a can of worms with that question. different amp types will definitely change the sound
The original question should be clarified to state using a Bi-Amp mode on a receiver where the amps are identical and levels are matched correctly. Sure if you drive the high end with a totally different amp and processor than the low end you can obviously hear a difference as you can modify levels, change eq and even delays between the two

 

[AudiocRaver]

I can see where bi-amping that replaces a marginal passive crossover design with a better, more-ideal active crossover could produce audible differences. But I have not tried it for that purpose so have no data to offer.

Bi-wiring I do regularly now with the MartinLogan Classic ESL 9. The theoretical benefit is that each speaker now has an entire stereo amp channel's worth of power available for the woofers and for the electrostatic panel, so basically more power is available. I heard no difference in making the change, though.

 

[ddude003]

your opening a can of worms with that question. different amp types will definitely change the sound
The original question should be clarified to state using a Bi-Amp mode on a receiver where the amps are identical and levels are matched correctly. Sure if you drive the high end with a totally different amp and processor than the low end you can obviously hear a difference as you can modify levels, change eq and even delays between the two

What is the use of a can of worms if you don't open it??? Really, this is a discussion forum isn't it? Bi-amping with a single receiver is the most uninteresting way to do it... I can't imagine anyone hearing much difference bi-amped with just another exact version of yet another channel amp in the same chassis... Yes, your distortion specs may be a touch better and dynamic control of your drivers, but not enough to make a discernible difference...

The point of Bi or more amping is to have more control of what you send to each of your drivers. Many hybrids, horn loadeds, and subwoofers are internally bi or more amped or allow external bi-amping... I've never read a speaker manufactures documents stating there is only one correct way to do it... Viva la difference... Some is good, more is better and too much is just right... 8^)