Coronavirus Outbreak

Asere

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I work in. a hospital and yes masks do work. Been wearing them in respiratory rooms pre covid too. Nothing is 100% effective but does it protect you more than with no masks absolutely.
 

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My thinking is it shouldn't hurt to wear a mask and if anything it should help. We hung plexiglass shields in our store over the cases with a foot gap underneath to pass guns. We have a glass panel going all the way across our front counter that is framed in front of both POS systems. Then we had Cintas come in and install 9 sanitation stations throughout the store, and pumps on top of the cases for after handling a firearm.

We refused to go out and eat the other night with our friends because they were going to an open buffet in a restaurant that also wasn't spacing out tables. It's crazy and just asking to spread it.
 

JStewart

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several studies show masks are effective. See link here.
Thanks for the link. As I read on of the studies linked in that link I don't get a warm and fuzzy they're as effective as they need to be.
For example:

Overall, an evidence review (29)
finds "moderate certainty evidence shows that the use of handwashing
plus masks probably reduces the spread of respiratory
viruses."


The word "probably" caught my attention.
From the same paper:

Multiple studies show the filtration effects of cloth masks
relative to surgical masks. Particle sizes for speech are on the
order of 1 μm (20) while typical definitions of droplet size are
5 μm-10 μm (5). Generally available household materials had
between a 49% and 86% filtration rate for 0.02 μm exhaled particles
whereas surgical masks filtered 89% of those particles
(21). In a laboratory setting, household materials had 3% to
60% filtration rate for particles in the relevant size range, finding
them comparable to some surgical masks (22). In another
laboratory setup, a tea cloth mask was found to filter 60% of
particles between 0.02 μm to 1 μm, where surgical masks filtered
75% (23).


Those percentages are not that great and makes me wonder if mask wearing is actually providing a sense of false security and leading to more infections. Perhaps our leaders should do more to to highlight the effectiveness of the masks.


Mask is not the cure, just a mechanism to help stop spread the virus, that is all. It may not even be 100% but it is better than the alternative, which is nothing and the virus moves from person to person..
Totally agree.
 

tripplej

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Let's just hope people start to take this virus seriously and try do do preventive measures before it is too late not only for themselves but for others near them.
 

simplex

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Those percentages are not that great and makes me wonder if mask wearing is actually providing a sense of false security and leading to more infections. Perhaps our leaders should do more to to highlight the effectiveness of the masks.
You will hardly ever find a 100% effectiveness for protective measures of any kind. I'm also sure that several studies exist on that topic, just did not search for them. For me, that's not necessary, while in general I love scientific and mathematical proof.

Just have a look at general practice in hospitals, during surgery, and similar situations. Those masks just lower the probability of an infection being spread to vulnerable persons.

If I am one of 100,000 people wearing masks in public places during the pandemic, and these 100,000 guys can save only one single human life by wearing masks, it's well worth that small individual effort - at least for me. I don't love those masks, believe me, but at the moment we need them. In that case, I don't have to wait for a scientific proof. Common sense, and a bit of empathy, are enough.
 
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billrobbo

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My thinking is it shouldn't hurt to wear a mask and if anything it should help. We hung plexiglass shields in our store over the cases with a foot gap underneath to pass guns. We have a glass panel going all the way across our front counter that is framed in front of both POS systems. Then we had Cintas come in and install 9 sanitation stations throughout the store, and pumps on top of the cases for after handling a firearm.

We refused to go out and eat the other night with our friends because they were going to an open buffet in a restaurant that also wasn't spacing out tables. It's crazy and just asking to spread it.
The same here.
 

billrobbo

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Thankfully, we have no local transmissions! All cases are people returning from overseas. We really could have been a lot worse off after the Ruby Princess
 

simplex

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Found this one regarding masks and other protective measures in different scenarios:
It's based on computer models and methodology developed at the University of Colorado. The interactive graphics show in a striking manner, that no combination of protective measures taken will result in zero risk, but the probability of individual infection and therefore the number of people infected with COVID-19 can be reduced dramatically.
 

tripplej

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The interactive graphics show in a striking manner, that no combination of protective measures taken will result in zero risk, but the probability of individual infection and therefore the number of people infected with COVID-19 can be reduced dramatically.
And that is the key -- help reduce as much as possible the virus from spreading.. :)

Stay safe everybody, wash hands, wear masks, and keep social distancing as much as possible whenever you are out in the public.
 

JStewart

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Found this one regarding masks and other protective measures in different scenarios:
It's based on computer models and methodology developed at the University of Colorado. The interactive graphics show in a striking manner, that no combination of protective measures taken will result in zero risk, but the probability of individual infection and therefore the number of people infected with COVID-19 can be reduced dramatically.
That was my point in post 149. The recent spread is probably less from people being jerks and more from the public not being educated on the actual effectiveness of masks. Meaning they have given us to some extent a sense of false security.

Thank you for the link. It was very informative. Starting tomorrow we'll leave the back door open and the air handler running. (Every time the front door opens it'll blow through, turning the air over more than just the AC.)
 

JStewart

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We hung plexiglass shields in our store over the cases with a foot gap underneath to pass guns. We have a glass panel going all the way across our front counter that is framed in front of both POS systems. Then we had Cintas come in and install 9 sanitation stations throughout the store, and pumps on top of the cases for after handling a firearm.
Same here from day 1 pretty much. We were designated essential so have never closed throughout this.
We require masks and will provide one if a customer shows up without, My franchisor has been producing and providing hand sanitizer that's available throughout the shop. Customers can call to have us bring purchases out to their car. We've delivered to customer's homes. Shields and countertops get sanitized every few hours.

So far none of us or anyone in our immediate families has been infected. We've been very lucky. Vaccine can't come soon enough.
 

simplex

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We hung plexiglass shields in our store over the cases with a foot gap underneath to pass guns.
Certainly a good idea as a first step. But there are studies showing that aerosoles stay floating in the air for hours and all through these gaps, unless you have a really constant and sufficient flow of air (one active exhaust air outlet above each POS on dealer's and on clients' side) and / or everybody is wearing masks.

One more issue to consider is the maximum number of persons in the store.

Re. 'guns': just shoot the virus, will you?
 

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We keep it to a max of 4 when we use to have 20 people in here at one time lined up. On Black Friday we'd have 30-40 people in here at the same time. Imagine bringing that down to only 4 and keeping at 4 all day. Needless to say, there won't be much reason to run huge Black Friday "in-store" sales this year.

This is on a Wednesday, not even Black Friday and there are 9 people waiting to get in.

37352
 

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We keep it to a max of 4 when we use to have 20 people in here at one time lined up. On Black Friday we'd have 30-40 people in here at the same time. Imagine bringing that down to only 4 and keeping at 4 all day. Needless to say, there won't be much reason to run huge Black Friday "in-store" sales this year.

This is on a Wednesday, not even Black Friday and there are 9 people waiting to get in.

View attachment 37352
And the question is are those people outside wearing masks? (hard for me to tell from the pic I see maybe one but could be a shadow) There is no distancing, more possible spread among themselves and then they throw on a mask to go inside the store only to possibly contaminate you guys if someone has it.
 

tripplej

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Several new records were set ..

from nbcnews, U.S., reported almost 3K deaths in one single day yesterday!

In addition, hospitalizations reached a new record of 100K yesterday

Moreover, the number of cases is now over 270K.

Folks, it is going to get much worse before it gets better. So, wear masks and social distance.

And most importantly, don't travel unless necessary.
 

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I can tell you right now... people in general seem to just not care anymore. I see it everywhere everyday.
 

simplex

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Over here, in public places most people seem to follow current rules, masks, keeping distance ...
Since Dec. 1st it's mandatory to wear masks even on parking areas and everywhere outside in public, where keeping a minimum distance of 1.5 meters might not work. Inside public buildings it's mandatory anyway. My perception is that most people here stick to the rules, but there's a minority of hardcore deniers who don't care. These are the ones I'm worried about.
And current health statistics do not support my level of optimism regarding COVID ...
 

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I can tell you right now... people in general seem to just not care anymore. I see it everywhere everyday.
Yeah, and that is the main reason why this virus will spread more and more which will only lead to more deaths as well as hospitalizations..
Don't know what the end state will be but a lot of people will not be here..
 

billrobbo

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This virus has decimated a lot of the western world and their economies, yet here in Australia we locked down early and have almost business as normal!
.Now China is sanctioning all our products to decimate our economy!

I will leave it there
 

simplex

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..., yet here in Australia we locked down early and have almost business as normal!
Well done! A special German problem is that we're a major transit country for both passengers and goods in Central Europe. We just can't control our borders so effectively. To make things worse, many governors of German states are very hesitant of following Chancellor Merkel's and virologists' advice for stricter lockdown measures.

The explicit rules of federalism that were implemented after the experience of the 'Third Reich' are understandable, but also have their drawbacks.
 

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The big debate is protect the people or protect the economy..

On the one hand, people need to be safe but then again, they need jobs to help support them.
Without jobs, they have no money and no means to support, but if you keep the jobs, health is at risk since people don't follow protocols.

It is a double edge sword.
 

simplex

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It is a double edge sword.
Sure. New Zealand and Australia showed how to use it well. Their geography helped. Germany has direct borders to 9 other nations, highly interconnected. People are crossing borders daily just to get to work.
That means, in my opinion, we would need lockdown rules comparable to those in New Zealand and Australia. This is not in sight, and the refusal of reacting properly, i.e. using strict lockdowns, will be very costly in the end (casualties as well as economic cost).
 

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Sadly, at least in the U.S., the only thing that will keep going up is the number of deaths and hospitalizations.
 

billrobbo

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It will be interesting to follow the results in the UK when they start vaccinating.
 

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Experts in Germany state that it will last several months until we can see positive results in statistical terms after vaccination starts. We still need a lot of patience to make it through this COVID winter.
Maybe, if elder people and health care workers are vaccinated first, at least the number of deaths might be reduced a littel bit earlier.
 
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