Centre channel via Audiolense??

Iansr

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I’ve always been a 2 channel guy so forgive the questions if they are naive. I want to use AL XO in my TV room, which as a minimum will have L and R speakers. The source will be a TV or a projector. I’d like to have a centre channel. My question is, how do I achieve that given that I will be using the XO and room correction functionality of AL for the L and R speakers. How do i extract the centre channel to feed to the centre speaker? I will probably use JRiver’s convolver to apply the AL derived filter settings. Can JRiver extract the centre channel from the signal coming from my TV/ Projector? Maybe this is a JRiver question rather than an AL question ??
 

Iansr

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JRiver can easily derive a center from any stereo source but how will you output it?
That’s good to know. The 3 channels (L, Centre and R) will presumably be bundled into one digital signal in the normal way by the JRiver convolver and output via USB to a multi-channel DAC (such as the RME UFX that I recently purchased). The UFX will isolate the 3 channels and route them to 3 of its analogue outputs.

Is that what you meant Kal?
 

Kal Rubinson

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There is no convolving of the channels in JRiver. They are discrete. OTOH, a suitable DAC will convert them to analog and output them appropriately. Should work fine.

BTW, it can also derive a subwoofer channel and implement bass management.

(My apologies for inserting the remark about "how will you output it." I was confusing you with another person.)
 

Iansr

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Can you expand on what you mean when you say the channels are discrete please. Surely they are combined in the sense that they are all bundled together into one digital signal that exits the PC via a single USB port - ?
 

juicehifi

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With regular stereo rig, Audiolense will direct the center channel to the left and right speaker. Same thing with surround channels and LFE. You need to load the 5.1 config file in jriver to achieve that.
 

Kal Rubinson

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Can you expand on what you mean when you say the channels are discrete please. Surely they are combined in the sense that they are all bundled together into one digital signal that exits the PC via a single USB port - ?
Sure. They are packaged along with clocks and other communications overhead as specified by USB standards but the data in each channel has no influence on the data in any other.
 

Iansr

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With regular stereo rig, Audiolense will direct the center channel to the left and right speaker. Same thing with surround channels and LFE. You need to load the 5.1 config file in jriver to achieve that.
OK thanks. My idea to have a centre channel was predicated on the assumption that for AV material a LCR system would be better than just L&R. However, having now done a bit more research its clear that there are 2 schools of thought and some people claim that 2 channels are just as good as 3, possibly better if your Centre speaker is not the same as the L&R. (My Centre would be different to the L&R.)

So maybe I should just try 2 channels first and see what I think of it.
 

Todd Anderson

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I'm not opposed to a phantom center, but you lose the appearance of a centric speaker as you move off axis. Of course, a you could also have the same experience if you're using a poorly designed center channel.
 

juicehifi

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Yes, you could try just 2 channels first. Even better if you could try a center speaker and decide after. The testing should be done with corrected setup, it makes a huge difference here. I have lived without a center channel literally forever, and even though I sit off center there seem to be a psychoacoustic adjustment going on that aligns the audio direction with what's on the TV. But I believe Todd is right; a real center channel is better (if it is properly implemented).
 

2234rew

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I want to use AL XO in my TV room, which as a minimum will have L and R speakers. The source will be a TV or a projector. I’d like to have a centre channel.
You could run DTS Neural UpMixer with Audiolense correction, to upmix 2 channel up to 3 channel or up to 7.1 channel.

It's not rocket science but it's also not a walk in the park. It's something in between :p

See this thread:

 

Todd Anderson

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Carada Cine-White 0 gain
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You could run DTS Neural UpMixer with Audiolense correction, to upmix 2 channel up to 3 channel or up to 7.1 channel.

It's not rocket science but it's also not a walk in the park. It's something in between :p

See this thread:

At some point you have to step back and appreciate the lengths we all go through to tune our respective systems. Fun stuff
 

Iansr

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There is no way I’m ever going to buy a centre speaker that matches my L & R speakers: 1. Too tall and 2. I’m not spending that kind of money for mostly dialogue. So on that basis I’ve pretty much decided I’ll stay a 2 channel guy.
 

hulkss

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There is no way I’m ever going to buy a centre speaker that matches my L & R speakers: 1. Too tall and 2. I’m not spending that kind of money for mostly dialogue. So on that basis I’ve pretty much decided I’ll stay a 2 channel guy.
I use a center channel loudspeaker for multi-channel concert videos and up-mixed two channel music. In this application, I have achieved the best results when the center channel loudspeaker is identical to the right and left.

A wide sound stage with a properly implemented center speaker can really outperform stereo.
 

Todd Anderson

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StormAudio ISP.24 MK2
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Emotiva XPA-5
Additional Amp
Emotiva XPA Gen3 2.8 multichannel amp
Other Amp
Denon X8500H
Computer Audio
AudioEngine A2+
DAC
THX ONYX
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
Kaleidescape TERRA, OPPO UDP-203, Panasonic UB9000
Front Speakers
GoldenEar Technology Triton One.R
Center Channel Speaker
GoldenEar Technology SuperCenter Reference
Surround Speakers
SVS Ultra Surround
Surround Back Speakers
SVS Ultra Bookshelf
Front Height Speakers
SVS Prime Elevation x4 (Top Front, Top Mid-Front)
Rear Height Speakers
SVS Prime Elevation x4 (Top Middle, Top Rear)
Subwoofers
dual SVS SB16s + dual PSA XS30s
Other Speakers or Equipment
Behringer 1124p; Aura Bass Shaker Pros; SuperSub X
Video Display Device
JVC NX7
Screen
Carada Cine-White 0 gain
Streaming Equipment
iFi Audio Zen Blue
Streaming Subscriptions
Qobuz, TIDAL, Spotify, ROON
Other Equipment
LG Electronics 65-inch B6 OLED, Sony 65-inch X900F, ZeroSurge 8R15W x 2, ZeroSurge 2R15W x 2
There is no way I’m ever going to buy a centre speaker that matches my L & R speakers: 1. Too tall and 2. I’m not spending that kind of money for mostly dialogue. So on that basis I’ve pretty much decided I’ll stay a 2 channel guy.
Your typical surround sound presentation will have as much as 70% of key audio information passing through the center channel. Does the manufacturer offer a horizontal center to match your mains?
 

Todd Anderson

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My AV System  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
StormAudio ISP.24 MK2
Main Amp
Emotiva XPA-5
Additional Amp
Emotiva XPA Gen3 2.8 multichannel amp
Other Amp
Denon X8500H
Computer Audio
AudioEngine A2+
DAC
THX ONYX
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
Kaleidescape TERRA, OPPO UDP-203, Panasonic UB9000
Front Speakers
GoldenEar Technology Triton One.R
Center Channel Speaker
GoldenEar Technology SuperCenter Reference
Surround Speakers
SVS Ultra Surround
Surround Back Speakers
SVS Ultra Bookshelf
Front Height Speakers
SVS Prime Elevation x4 (Top Front, Top Mid-Front)
Rear Height Speakers
SVS Prime Elevation x4 (Top Middle, Top Rear)
Subwoofers
dual SVS SB16s + dual PSA XS30s
Other Speakers or Equipment
Behringer 1124p; Aura Bass Shaker Pros; SuperSub X
Video Display Device
JVC NX7
Screen
Carada Cine-White 0 gain
Streaming Equipment
iFi Audio Zen Blue
Streaming Subscriptions
Qobuz, TIDAL, Spotify, ROON
Other Equipment
LG Electronics 65-inch B6 OLED, Sony 65-inch X900F, ZeroSurge 8R15W x 2, ZeroSurge 2R15W x 2
Yeah, you'd need space with those. I think you're making the right choice by sticking with a phantom center.
 

hulkss

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Your typical surround sound presentation will have as much as 70% of key audio information passing through the center channel. Does the manufacturer offer a horizontal center to match your mains?
As you say, the center speaker is key. Three M2's is in no way a problem other than cost. I place my full size center speaker behind an acoustically transparent projection screen.
 
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