Audiolense XO? Is this my solution?

[peelbone]

Hello!
I got a 2 channel dac (Auralic vega g2) wich i use with roon through a network connection (lan cabel).
The dac is connected (xlr) to a Karan preamp/amp separate solution into my speakers.

Ive just ordered two funkaudio subs classic 18E

Is it possible to connect a xlr splitter between my preamp and amp so i can send the left/right signal to the left/right subs and left/right speakers, then use AL XO to dsp everything?

Or do i need a aktive xrossover between my pre and amp?

How do you guys connect your gear and use with AL?

Any tip is most welcome !!

Cheers

Exuse my english =(

 

[peelbone]

Use filters in Roon is my goal

 

[kevinzoe]

Peelbone,
If you have 2 output channels from your DAC (Left+Right) then you can use AL for only macro level Left and Right channel overall freq and time alignment on a single channel basis - what this means is that you can not send separate crossover+digital room correction on an individualized speaker-by-speaker basis. This macro level left or right channel adjustments may be fine for you but to play in the big leagues you need a multi-channel DAC that can then send separate and distinct streams of music+crossover+room correction to each main speaker (or even main drivers if bi- or tri-ampable) and each sub. The flexibility that a multi-channel DAC provides is immense!

The problem with using a 2 channel DAC is that you can not make adjustments to control each sound speaker/sub individually; while more simple to implement, the 2 channel DAC limits your opportunity for system optimization. XLR/RCA splitters only send what upstream signal (music+digital room correction+crossover) it received to what it's connected with downstream, and you don't want to send the same high-pass crossover filter for your main speaker to your sub do you? ha ha

Lastly, you will need software like JRiver or ROON or others that can point to and play the correction filter that AL generates - a convolution engine. And one more thing AL only works on digital sources not analogue unless you convert the analogue into digital and then back again . . .

exaSound multi-channel DAC is what I use and there are others as well but not nearly as many as 2 channel DACs.
Hope this helps . . .

 

[kevinzoe]

. . . if a picture is worth a thousand words . . . here is a speaker setup screen outlining the crossover info for each main speaker and sub. Note my mains are bi-amped, so 6 channels used.

This picture illustrates how powerful AL is at setting crossovers with their slope being expressed as "width" (e.g. a 12dB second order filter is about a "4" width in AL terms). I chose to be very specific with my crossover frequencies and slopes to minimize correction filter insertion loss and to try and max the amplitude of the impulse response as my experience has been that this improves dynamics from the music ( I could be wrong, just my experience). Try and do the above in an analogue crossover and you will soon realize that doing it in the digital domain within AL is way more powerful and flexible BUT it takes lots of iterations and time to get it right. Lastly you can see that the first 3 channels are Left (sub, main's woofers, main's midrange/tweeters) and last 3 channels are right related.

All my digital music and the convolution engine that plays the AL correction file is within JRiver. I map JRiver's channels to the AL's channels and then a USB cable connects my laptop to my DAC and then 6 RCA channels out of the DAC feed the bi-amped mains and pair of subs. Master volume is controlled on the laptop with JRiver or with the JRemote app on my cellphone.

 

[kevinzoe]

Sorry, but I keep thinking of things that may be helpful for you . . .
You'll want to bypass the Funk Audio sub's crossover control ( usually done by turning it up all the way or maybe they have a different way to bypass its circuit/filter0. You will handle the sub's crossover duties within AL not at the sub level.
If your Maren speakers have internal passive crossovers (like mine do), then you can mimic them within AL assuming the speaker manufacturer tells you what the crossover specs are . . . You don't have to match them exactly spot on - a little either side of the crossover spec will still work fine. Ideally you would be able to bypass the main speaker's internal passive crossovers (similar to bypassing the subs) by doing those duties within AL

 

[peelbone]

Thanks for your input.

The problem with multichannel dacs are that they dont deliver same soundquality as the more highend 2 channel ones do.
Im want the best of the two worlds and stick to my dac (or better inte the future) and use the passive crossover in the martens with subsusing the dsp of the sub.
Funk claims the total dspengine timedelay to be less than 0,35 milliseconds on his classic 18E subs wichmeans i get i good startingpoint.

Is AL XO possible to make timealignment if i say use the subs under my mains frequency response? ex, sub 10-30hz and mains 30-20khz?

I need to start somewere =)

 

[peelbone]

say i just want to get better result without the subs for my 2 ch listening, is AL worth it?

I got ROON for my dac

 

[juicehifi]

say i just want to get better result without the subs for my 2 ch listening, is AL worth it?

I got ROON for my dac

Yes. Expect a mind- blowing experience.

 

[kevinzoe]

Peelbone,
Let me see if I can address your questions / concerns . .
(1) You said that multi-channel DACs are less quality than your 2 channel DAC
> In my opinion this is a false statement and you may be thinking this way because you're not aware of top notch DACs that are multi-channel. I mentioned my DAC being from exaSound which is a 5 star Stereophile rated DAC. Check out their site here: https://www.exasound.com/Store/s88DACandBundles.aspx This is a US$7,500 DAC by the way.

(2) You said you wish to use the best of both worlds by using your current DAC + the passive crossover of your Marten main speakers + and the DSP capabilities of your Funk Audio subs
> this is an excellent starting position but not the best position because you are missing parts of a solution that only products like AL that produce FIR filters can provide such as time aligning the drivers on your mains if bi- or tri-amped, time aligning all mains and subs, level matching across all mains and subs, and of course digital room frequency correction for all mains and subs (I may have missed some other benefits but these spring to mind). Your sub's DSP will be able to delay the sub's signal but that means having to place the sub closer to your chair than the mains are, or alternatively said if the mains are closer to you than the subs are then it's the mains that ought to be delayed so the sub's delay feature won't be ideal and while you may be able to get the sub in phase it will be 1 cycle behind and lagging the mains thus sounding slow and off beat - you don't want that I assume.
> So keep your DAC and use AL for macro level left and right channel digital room frequency correction only and forget time alignment as a starting point, or contact your DAC manufacturer to see if they make a multi-channel DAC.

(3) You said Funk Audio claims a group delay of 0.35ms on the sub you ordered
> that's very low and impressive but it really doesn't matter what the number is because AL uses its own test signals to time align the impulse response of all mains and subs. So its a non-issue and one you shouldn't have to pay more for.

(4) You asked if AL XO can time align the sub's frequency response that is beneath your main's frequency response
> Yes as per answer (3) above.

(5) You asked if AL XO is worth owning if used just for your mains (with no subs)
> In my opinion Yes it does a fantastic job of frequency response correction which smoothens the sound and the time alignment reduces listening fatigue so in my opinion it's worth it but we are all different and what is important to me might be different for you . . . Its price tag pales in comparison to the benefits it provides, far more than a different preamp for example, in my opinion.

 

[peelbone]

Thanks for the reply!

i maybe need to reconsider my statement about dacs =)

I had some conversation with Mitch and he is basicaly agreeing with you so thats that.

I will start with a AL XO with my current setup and see how it goes.

Thanks!!

 

[juicehifi]

Welcome to the family you will never regret this.

 

[menlobob]

The Lynx Hilo that Mitch uses would be perfect for your setup. 4 balanced out channels (2 XLR, 2 TRS), with 2 more available though the headphone out.