A single uncorrected channel

jrobbins50

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Bernt, I’m doing some experimenting with bass shakers installed in a couch for low end extension and tactile presence. Currently, I’ve split the input of one of my existing subwoofers to provide the input to the bass shakers. As this is an AL corrected input, the bass shakers are more pronounced on some notes than others.

I can’t measure an input to the bass shakers in AL because they produce only a physical effect and no sound. Thus, I’d like to create a convolution filter set through AL that manually applies a band pass filter between 15 and 60 Hz to the otherwise uncorrected input for the bass shakers. All other inputs would be treated as normal by AL.

Is there a way to do this in AL? Thanks. JCR
 

juicehifi

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You can use a target as an EQ. It is a part of the partial correction scheme. But you still need a measured impulse for the two shakers. Audiolense does not work without a measured impulse response.
 

jrobbins50

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Can you show me how to use the partial correction scheme for one channel and assign it a different target than other channels? (Let’s presume I figure a way to measure an impulse response.). Thanks, Bernt. JCR
 

jrobbins50

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Ok! Am I correct to presume that you switch active target for this channel only? The last piece I am not quite seeing is how you do in fact match the bass shaker target to the specific channel. Thanks, Bernt. JCR
 

juicehifi

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No, you switch "active target" for all ..- in the no correction region.

I have no idea how you can match the shaker to the rest of the rig here. Audiolense depends on speakers with measurable output, but it sounds like this' cant be measured. You may be able to work out something, but I'm afraid I don't have the H2 answers in this case.
 

jjazdk

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You can just measure an arbitrary speaker, since the resulting impulse response does not matter.

The only thing of importance would be to do a crude level matching.
 

jrobbins50

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Ok Bernt. I’m stumped. I can set up the partial correction on CPD without issue. I then exit CPD and go to Target Designer to select my previously created “bass shakers” target. So now what? There’s nothing I see to do in Target Designer. If I go back to CPD and select the “bass shakers” target, it’ll apply to all channels, all frequencies. I don’t want that, of course. How do I tell the software to use the bass shakers target for the no-correction areas on all channels and to use my regular target for correction areas on all channels? And what are you trying to show in the multi targets drop down on Target Designer?

Unfortunately, your help file example of partial correction specifically doesn’t use a target curve as an equalizer in the no correction zone, so I can’t figure it out from there. Thanks. JCR
 

jrobbins50

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Yes, I can get to that page but what am I doing there to select the bass shaker target for the no correction region? Is merely the default tick alone what anchors the bass shaker target to the no correction area and then I select my regular target before creating new filters? JCR
 

jrobbins50

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OK, let me walk you through what I am doing and you can tell me what is wrong.

My speaker setup is for 5.3, with two normal sub channels and the third sub channel for the bass shakers. For measurement, I've attached an arbitrary speaker to the bass shakers' channel to get an impulse response, of course. For the playback format and channel routing, I'm sending 0.5 to my largest sub and 0.25 to each of a smaller sub and the bass shaker channel. Crossover configuration has nothing for the three sub channels.

In Correction Procedure Designer, I've ticked the partial correction box. Under the partial correction tab, I've ticked only the sub relating to the bass shaker channel. Frequency corr stop is 0 Hz. Transition width is 0 octaves. Amplification is 0.0 dB. TTD corr stop is 0 Hz.

Returning to the main Frequency Response chart, I drop down Target / New. I use the Open Target button to select my normal full-range target. Then, using the Multi Targets drop down, I select Add Target, which brings up the Speaker Type and Speaker box. Copy Default Target is ticked. For the mains, center and surround channels, I select small for speaker size and select each of those speakers one at a time until the only speakers remaining are the three sub channels. I select sub for each of the large and small sub as the speaker type and select each of those two subs one at a time. In the end, only one speaker channel remains for the bass shakers' sub channel.

When I select sub for this last channel and then go to speaker, the correct remaining channel label appears. When I click on it, however, it populates the speaker box, but then it unpopulates the speaker type box where I had selected sub. And if I then click to select the speaker type box, it unpopulates the speaker box. Back and forth. I don't understand this behavior.

However, I'm kind of guessing that I need to switch the target for this last bass shaker channel to be the target EQ for the uncorrrected range. I see under Multi Targets that there is a selection for Switch Active Target. When I select that, I get a shortcut info box that pops up to say I should use TAB and Ctrl + TAB to toggle between the Target Curves. Using TAB, I get no toggling between target curves -- rather, it merely toggles around the various buttons on the screen (i.e., New Target, Open Target, View Smoothed Targets, etc.). Ctrl + TAB does nothing.

If I use Open Target to select the bass shaker target, I get an error message that says Unhandled Exception has occurred in your application. If you click Continue, the application will ignore this error and attempt to continue. If you click Quit, the application will close immediately. Index was outside the bounds of the array. Clicking Continue, I just get a blank target designer with a giant red X across it. I don't know what this means, but obviously, it's not right. The bass shaker target opens normally on the main Frequency Response Chart when selecting Target / Open.

My only option is to Exit and start over. When I pick Target / New again, I can see that the normal curve appears and seems to be set up for all channels but for the bass shaker channel. If I then exit back to the Frequency Response page and click Open Target to select my normal curve, the normal target curve appears for each channel (assuming I have the Target box ticked under Chart View Details), including the bass shaker channel. Nevertheless, running a Generate Correction Filter, it appears that the bass shaker target has been applied to all channels even though I had not selected that on the Frequency Response page, yielding the strangest looking correction filters and simulated results I've ever seen, rolling off all channels above 60 Hz, the top end of the bass shaker channel target EQ.

So, I'm lost. Help! Let me know if you want me to attach any screenshots. Thanks, Bernt. JCR
 

juicehifi

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When you add a target to the family, simply assign it to the bass shaker (the right drop-down). Do not use the left drop-down. Then you will have two targets. One for the shaker and one for the other speakers. That's all you need.

And you may have to use 1 Hz as no corr frequency. I do not recall how it will respond to 0 Hz here.
 

jrobbins50

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OK, I got the 1Hz setup in CPD, as you can see above. And I used just the right dropdown in Target Designer to match the subwoofer front left (the bass shaker channel) to the bass shaker target.

And then I'm stuck. If I next attempt to open the normal target next in Target Designer, so as to match it to all of the other channels, I'm asked if I want to save the current target family before opening another. I assume everything has to be together. So, that doesn't work.

If I then use Multi Targets to Add Target, I certainly can use the right side box to select each of the other channels. But this would just map all of the other channels to the currently open Target, being the Bass Shakers, and not the normal Target.

Seems I would want to switch active target from the bass shaker to the normal target and then assign each remaining channel to then active target, being at that juncture the normal target. But, when I select Switch Active Target, I only get the shortcut info to use TAB or Ctrl+TAB, and as previously noted, neither use switches the active tab or gives me a choice to open the normal target.

What am I doing wrong still? Thanks. JCR
 

juicehifi

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You should not try to open a second target. The new target file contains both target.

The alignment of the two target is off and the default target is hidden deep down. You probably have to change the alignment frequency to ca 50 Hz. Then you will see both targets in the designer.
 

jrobbins50

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OK, but I really don't understand what you are describing. The default target on my screen is the bass shaker target and it is directly under the front left sub because they are the same. I have multiple targets, so how would the new target file know which second target is my "normal" one (the one on the list as Jeffrey v4 Jazz Classical) if I don't open it? What alignment is off, what is the default target and what do you mean by hidden deep down, what's the alignment frequency are you referencing and what screen and where am I changing it to around 50 Hz?

Update: I found the change target alignment frequency dropdown under Multi Target and changed to 50 from 70. That did nothing.

Bernt, if it would be helpful to let you manipulate the software live on my PC, I can set up a remote login so you can show me what I'm not doing correctly. JCR
 

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jrobbins50

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Even after getting rid of the partial correction in CPD, I am now getting really strange correction filters being generated now. See screenshot. JCR
 

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juicehifi

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Here, the green/blue target will be used for the front left speaker. The red / yellow will be used for all the other speakers. Tab and Ctr+Tab works here to toggle between the targets. Without adjusting the alignment frequency, the default target will have too low spl. That's what happens in your case, only to a much larger degree.
 
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