What is that? Clipping?

[Dan Barham]

My ML Motion 12s are 4 Ohm speakers. I drove them with my Denon AVR-3313i and was reasonably happy with the sound at moderate levels. But, when I listen to orchestral music I want to be sitting there with the Cleveland Orchestra spread out before me. In other words; LOUD! The Denon would attain those levels, barely, but loud passages would get decidedly "gritty." I can't think of a better way to describe it except to say the music takes on a harshness, and edge, that shouldn't be there.

I don't think I've ever heard clipping before. During my nearly 30 years with my AR9s I drove them with Adcom 555s and they never approach distortion. Prior to that I used a Haffler amp that I built myself. My Ascend Sierras were great with the Denon but then I never drove them to (What do you call it) reference levels. Because of the grittyness the Denon produced I finally bought a Crown XLS 1502 to maybe see what was going on. And it was wonderful! The grittyness was gone completely and the Motions sounded terrific. The power of the Crown is obvious and, at any level, it's never approached the red clipping warning leds, it's quiet and never even gets warm. This amp is amazing!

Anyway, my question in the subject line? Does my gritty condition sould like clipping to you? I know...I know. The grittyness is gone so why worry about it? Well, I'm not worried but I'd like to know what I was hearing. You know; down the road if someone asks me why I use a separate amp I can say, "Oh, the AVR was clipping with those 4 Ohm speakers." Makes me appear more knowledgeable than I really am.

Anyway, thoughts would be appreciated,

old arkiedan

 

[Tony V.]

Clipping may not be the appropriate term but your getting close. Clipping is heard as more a snapping or popping sound in the speakers but my thoughts are you are running out of steam and the amp is approaching clipping causing distortion. Its been said many times that a receivers power supply is likely not able to drive the amps to their full potential and thus you get distortion and that is what your hearing when your hear "a "gritty harsh" sound.
4ohm speakers are not an easy load for any receiver to drive and you can basically cut the receivers output in half .

Here are the Sound and vision bench tests:

Two channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 122.9 watts
1% distortion at 143.3 watts

Five channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 82.9 watts
1% distortion at 103.0 watts

Seven channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 79.5 watts
1% distortion at 96.8 watts


Read more at https://www.soundandvision.com/cont...receiver-ht-labs-measures#QrW72XUccYMsdmBJ.99

 

[Adhoc]

Classical music is usually a lot more dynamic than comtemporary compressed music which may have perhaps 10 dB dynamics with the loudness race going on. Sudden and loud parts of the music can ask for a lot more power. Say a + 9 dB transient, it would ask for 8 times more power from the amp, +12 dB => 16 times more. Can the amp provide that effortlessly from your usual listening level?

 

[Dan Barham]

Classical music is usually a lot more dynamic than comtemporary compressed music which may have perhaps 10 dB dynamics with the loudness race going on. Sudden and loud parts of the music can ask for a lot more power. Say a + 9 dB transient, it would ask for 8 times more power from the amp, +12 dB => 16 times more. Can the amp provide that effortlessly from your usual listening level?

Yeah, the Crown has been as you say, effortless, at any level. As for the Denon amps, not so much. I should have said in the original post, I listen to musiuc only in stereo, never in surround.

I appreciate Tony V.s response was logical and explained the condition I was hearing very well. Thanks!

old arkiedan