What can I glean from my mdat and how to make decisions on what to do next

This is the real world, not Harry Potter where a towel can make things disappear.
Noooo.... STOP IT!!!!! :(

So, if you have a hard surface that is a point of reflection, and you cover it all with a blanket, you can still have reflections?
 
Noooo.... STOP IT!!!!! :(

So, if you have a hard surface that is a point of reflection, and you cover it all with a blanket, you can still have reflections?
The direct answer to this question is YES... Now go and do some basic acoustic homework... I am done...
 
Noooo.... STOP IT!!!!! :(

So, if you have a hard surface that is a point of reflection, and you cover it all with a blanket, you can still have reflections?

Cover your head in that blanket. Can you hear anything? Those are the frequencies that are getting through.
 
Hi

Thx for the help in the other thread; I figured as this is a diff convo, a new thread was warranted.

New mdat below. I got rid of the low end null, Ok, not entirely, but a good portion of it. How? I moved the mic in a bit. I am thinking about 8 or 9"? I realized that although the mic was equidistant to the tweeters, forming a perfect triangle, that's not where I sit. I am actually in a bit further, and positioned the mic there.

Looking at the mdat, the waterfall, the decay, etc... it looks good to me, but I really do not know what I am looking at. Is there any way to look at the data, and be able to say say, ok, more treatment here, this type of treatment there?

Thanks again. :)
i used my REW mcp claude tool, this is his answer : I'll work the magnitude domain (what these files can actually support) and skip everything the no-timing-reference state blocks. Let me look at the frequency response of both channels and generate decay.I need the FR sampler and decay tools, not these. Let me get them.Good — I have rew_get (FR sampling) and rew_peq_review (magnitude-domain dip/peak finder with external_blind context). Those are the right magnitude-domain tools. Let me first screen admissibility, then pull the actual FR shape. Starting with the right channel.Both clean: SNR ~53 dB (good), full-range sweep 10 Hz–20 kHz, no clock adjustment, consistent SPL offset. The no-timing-reference state holds — so phase/GD/step comparisons stay blocked, but magnitude is fully admissible. Now the actual FR shape. Let me pull both channels at 1/12 smoothing across the bass region where his null lived.Right channel is a clean, well-behaved curve. Now the left.Now I have both full curves. Let me run the magnitude-domain dip/peak finder in external_blind context to get a structured read on what's actually correctable, then I'll have everything I need.I have what I need. Here's my analysis — this is for me/you, not yet the simplified post. Everything caps at INDICATIVE (external blind dataset, no provenance, no timing reference).

What the data actually shows​

The null is genuinely gone — and his diagnosis is right. This is the headline. There's no deep low-end null in either channel now. Both curves are remarkably flat through the bass: the region from ~22 Hz up to ~85 Hz sits within roughly ±3 dB. Down low, both channels hold ~77–78 dB all the way to 22 Hz before the natural roll-off below 20 Hz. For a small room with no sub and no EQ, that's a genuinely good in-room bass response. His mental model ("I moved off the null") is correct — and worth reinforcing that he relocated the seat off a pressure minimum rather than treating the mode.
L and R are well-matched but not identical. The two channels track each other closely in shape. The meaningful differences:
  • Around 50–63 Hz, left runs a touch hotter than right (L peaks ~83 dB near 66 Hz; R is smoother there). Minor.
  • Around 94–100 Hz, left has a small dip (~77 dB at 94 Hz) that right doesn't share. Right dips slightly later (~105 Hz).
  • Around 125 Hz, left has a small peak (~84 dB) that's a bit more pronounced than right's.
These are small (~3–5 dB) and are classic single-seat asymmetries — the speakers aren't symmetric to room boundaries, or the seat isn't centered. Normal.
The only "issues" worth naming are mild peaks, not dips:
FreqWhatDepth/height vs band medianVerdict
~125 Hzmild peak (L)+5 dBwatch / minor — EQ-able if it bugs him
~78 Hzmild narrow peak+4.4 dBlikely position-specific, leave it
~94–100 Hzshallow dip−3 dBdo NOT EQ (boost) — geometric
~20 Hzshallow dip−3.8 dBroll-off region, ignore
Nothing here needs aggressive correction. The peq_review found zero boost-forbidden issues and zero hard problems. The two cut candidates are both mild and explicitly flagged apply-not-allowed from blind data.

The honest answer to his real question​

"Where do I treat and what kind?" — the uncomfortable truth: this measurement doesn't tell him he needs more treatment. The bass is already good. The curve is smooth. What a single magnitude sweep can't do is localize treatment — that's geometry (mirror points for reflections, corners for bass), not something a frequency plot points at. And the one thing that would add value from his separate L/R captures — inter-channel timing/phase coherence — is blocked because both files have no timing reference. So if he wants the "where do I treat" question answered properly, the actionable advice is about how he measures next, not adding panels based on this.
The most useful thing I can tell him: stop chasing the bass, it's good; if he wants to go further, the next measurement (with a timing/acoustic reference, and ideally L+R played together plus a few seats) is what unlocks reflection and decay analysis — not more interpretation of this one.
Want me to build a quick FR plot of both channels to include, and then write the simplified forum-ready version?
 
i used my REW mcp claude tool, this is his answer : I'll work the magnitude domain (what these files can actually support) and skip everything the no-timing-reference state blocks. Let me look at the frequency response of both channels and generate decay.I need the FR sampler and decay tools, not these. Let me get them.Good — I have rew_get (FR sampling) and rew_peq_review (magnitude-domain dip/peak finder with external_blind context). Those are the right magnitude-domain tools. Let me first screen admissibility, then pull the actual FR shape. Starting with the right channel.Both clean: SNR ~53 dB (good), full-range sweep 10 Hz–20 kHz, no clock adjustment, consistent SPL offset. The no-timing-reference state holds — so phase/GD/step comparisons stay blocked, but magnitude is fully admissible. Now the actual FR shape. Let me pull both channels at 1/12 smoothing across the bass region where his null lived.Right channel is a clean, well-behaved curve. Now the left.Now I have both full curves. Let me run the magnitude-domain dip/peak finder in external_blind context to get a structured read on what's actually correctable, then I'll have everything I need.I have what I need. Here's my analysis — this is for me/you, not yet the simplified post. Everything caps at INDICATIVE (external blind dataset, no provenance, no timing reference).

What the data actually shows​

The null is genuinely gone — and his diagnosis is right. This is the headline. There's no deep low-end null in either channel now. Both curves are remarkably flat through the bass: the region from ~22 Hz up to ~85 Hz sits within roughly ±3 dB. Down low, both channels hold ~77–78 dB all the way to 22 Hz before the natural roll-off below 20 Hz. For a small room with no sub and no EQ, that's a genuinely good in-room bass response. His mental model ("I moved off the null") is correct — and worth reinforcing that he relocated the seat off a pressure minimum rather than treating the mode.
L and R are well-matched but not identical. The two channels track each other closely in shape. The meaningful differences:
  • Around 50–63 Hz, left runs a touch hotter than right (L peaks ~83 dB near 66 Hz; R is smoother there). Minor.
  • Around 94–100 Hz, left has a small dip (~77 dB at 94 Hz) that right doesn't share. Right dips slightly later (~105 Hz).
  • Around 125 Hz, left has a small peak (~84 dB) that's a bit more pronounced than right's.
These are small (~3–5 dB) and are classic single-seat asymmetries — the speakers aren't symmetric to room boundaries, or the seat isn't centered. Normal.
The only "issues" worth naming are mild peaks, not dips:
FreqWhatDepth/height vs band medianVerdict
~125 Hzmild peak (L)+5 dBwatch / minor — EQ-able if it bugs him
~78 Hzmild narrow peak+4.4 dBlikely position-specific, leave it
~94–100 Hzshallow dip−3 dBdo NOT EQ (boost) — geometric
~20 Hzshallow dip−3.8 dBroll-off region, ignore
Nothing here needs aggressive correction. The peq_review found zero boost-forbidden issues and zero hard problems. The two cut candidates are both mild and explicitly flagged apply-not-allowed from blind data.

The honest answer to his real question​

"Where do I treat and what kind?" — the uncomfortable truth: this measurement doesn't tell him he needs more treatment. The bass is already good. The curve is smooth. What a single magnitude sweep can't do is localize treatment — that's geometry (mirror points for reflections, corners for bass), not something a frequency plot points at. And the one thing that would add value from his separate L/R captures — inter-channel timing/phase coherence — is blocked because both files have no timing reference. So if he wants the "where do I treat" question answered properly, the actionable advice is about how he measures next, not adding panels based on this.
The most useful thing I can tell him: stop chasing the bass, it's good; if he wants to go further, the next measurement (with a timing/acoustic reference, and ideally L+R played together plus a few seats) is what unlocks reflection and decay analysis — not more interpretation of this one.
Want me to build a quick FR plot of both channels to include, and then write the simplified forum-ready version?

He use Eq(his speakers have a measurement system build in) and his FR is of course then good. A good FR is easy to reach with EQ for measurements. But for good sound with good clarity and no booming bass, is also a good decay time important. this can not reach with a EQ. for the EBU RT60 Limits. music studio should have between 200 ms-300 ms. So i set the nominal RT 60 to 250 ms. you can see that he have very much increase decay time in bass range. the blue is my small speaker. you can see that it not help have a expensive speaker. I do the compare with T30 results, there also can see his problem in bass range. my spakers are 90 cm away from hearing pos and in his pictures it look as his speakers are more near so should give reduce decay time


rt60.jpg

clarity.jpg
 
Looking at the mdat, the waterfall, the decay, etc... it looks good to me, but I really do not know what I am looking at. Is there any way to look at the data, and be able to say say, ok, more treatment here, this type of treatment there?
As far as more treatment here or there, that’s a tough one, but if you’re looking for standards for 2 channel to compare your measurements to, there’s this from Nyal Mellor of Acoustic Fromtiers and Jeff Hedback of HdAcoustics
 
i used my REW mcp claude tool, this is his answer : I'll work the magnitude domain (what these files can actually support) and skip everything the no-timing-reference state blocks. Let me look at the frequency response of both channels and generate decay.I need the FR sampler and decay tools, not these. Let me get them.Good — I have rew_get (FR sampling) and rew_peq_review (magnitude-domain dip/peak finder with external_blind context). Those are the right magnitude-domain tools. Let me first screen admissibility, then pull the actual FR shape. Starting with the right channel.Both clean: SNR ~53 dB (good), full-range sweep 10 Hz–20 kHz, no clock adjustment, consistent SPL offset. The no-timing-reference state holds — so phase/GD/step comparisons stay blocked, but magnitude is fully admissible. Now the actual FR shape. Let me pull both channels at 1/12 smoothing across the bass region where his null lived.Right channel is a clean, well-behaved curve. Now the left.Now I have both full curves. Let me run the magnitude-domain dip/peak finder in external_blind context to get a structured read on what's actually correctable, then I'll have everything I need.I have what I need. Here's my analysis — this is for me/you, not yet the simplified post. Everything caps at INDICATIVE (external blind dataset, no provenance, no timing reference).

What the data actually shows​

The null is genuinely gone — and his diagnosis is right. This is the headline. There's no deep low-end null in either channel now. Both curves are remarkably flat through the bass: the region from ~22 Hz up to ~85 Hz sits within roughly ±3 dB. Down low, both channels hold ~77–78 dB all the way to 22 Hz before the natural roll-off below 20 Hz. For a small room with no sub and no EQ, that's a genuinely good in-room bass response. His mental model ("I moved off the null") is correct — and worth reinforcing that he relocated the seat off a pressure minimum rather than treating the mode.
L and R are well-matched but not identical. The two channels track each other closely in shape. The meaningful differences:
  • Around 50–63 Hz, left runs a touch hotter than right (L peaks ~83 dB near 66 Hz; R is smoother there). Minor.
  • Around 94–100 Hz, left has a small dip (~77 dB at 94 Hz) that right doesn't share. Right dips slightly later (~105 Hz).
  • Around 125 Hz, left has a small peak (~84 dB) that's a bit more pronounced than right's.
These are small (~3–5 dB) and are classic single-seat asymmetries — the speakers aren't symmetric to room boundaries, or the seat isn't centered. Normal.
The only "issues" worth naming are mild peaks, not dips:
FreqWhatDepth/height vs band medianVerdict
~125 Hzmild peak (L)+5 dBwatch / minor — EQ-able if it bugs him
~78 Hzmild narrow peak+4.4 dBlikely position-specific, leave it
~94–100 Hzshallow dip−3 dBdo NOT EQ (boost) — geometric
~20 Hzshallow dip−3.8 dBroll-off region, ignore
Nothing here needs aggressive correction. The peq_review found zero boost-forbidden issues and zero hard problems. The two cut candidates are both mild and explicitly flagged apply-not-allowed from blind data.

The honest answer to his real question​

"Where do I treat and what kind?" — the uncomfortable truth: this measurement doesn't tell him he needs more treatment. The bass is already good. The curve is smooth. What a single magnitude sweep can't do is localize treatment — that's geometry (mirror points for reflections, corners for bass), not something a frequency plot points at. And the one thing that would add value from his separate L/R captures — inter-channel timing/phase coherence — is blocked because both files have no timing reference. So if he wants the "where do I treat" question answered properly, the actionable advice is about how he measures next, not adding panels based on this.
The most useful thing I can tell him: stop chasing the bass, it's good; if he wants to go further, the next measurement (with a timing/acoustic reference, and ideally L+R played together plus a few seats) is what unlocks reflection and decay analysis — not more interpretation of this one.
Want me to build a quick FR plot of both channels to include, and then write the simplified forum-ready version?
You have a mcp server for REW?? Do tell!
 
As far as more treatment here or there, that’s a tough one, but if you’re looking for standards for 2 channel to compare your measurements to, there’s this from Nyal Mellor of Acoustic Fromtiers and Jeff Hedback of HdAcoustics

I do not understand wy such audio science did not tell that speakers have huge amount of the decay time, and they do no measures. in science need tell how come to the results.which speakers are used to get the results about what decay times are good. there are much worse speakers out, because speaker influence of decay time seem ignore.

maybe @Hilmjeff have other (smaller) speakers so he can test at same place and microphone position ?

I show my tests at same position. I have also do d3v +12 cm measure from right speaker. so the mid range and tweeter driver is more simular to the bigger focal. but it change only very little the results as you can see in the RT60M for right speaker..
measure of the d3v and the focal alpha 65 evo(which have a higher price as usual in this class) but it is worse and sound boomy because alot speaker resonance no speaker test show. maybe when speaker tester show better measure for speaker resonances, better speakers come. there are 2 ways for get better sound. treaten room, or buy a speaker with fewer resonances in the mud area (70-500 hz)


focal .jpg


d3v.jpg


and here are the right speaker measures where the d3v is 12 cm higher and normal on stative. you see change only few
d3v + 12 cm.jpg



d3v R.jpg
 
I do not understand wy such audio science did not tell that speakers have huge amount of the decay time
Compared to room effects I would think inconsequential unless seriously broken.
Will different speakers in nearly the same place in a room excite the room differently? I would think yes. Effect of directivity and how energy is radiated into the room? Height of drivers? Frequency extension?
Is RT60 decay even valid at frequencies in the modal or transition range of a typical sized domestic room?
 
Compared to room effects I would think inconsequential unless seriously broken.

I thought this too, but my measurements show diffrent. I measure carefully diffrent speakers on same position and repeat also measurement on 3 positions(not with all speakers) when speakers are on same position for the compare measure. measurments you can download here


measurements of more diffrent speakers and see pictures about placements. there is tell clarity is not usefull for small rooms, but you can also look on RT60. you have all measurements mdat. this are the most important measures but in this thread you can find more mdat from me. keep in mind my room treatment is now more.

also a little important is where the bass port is. Kali and focal are front port. but the kali have not the problem with the 200 hz as the focal. the yamaha, the esi and the JBL 104 is back port . and the adam audio d3v have 2 passive woofer on side

Will different speakers in nearly the same place in a room excite the room differently? I would think yes. Effect of directivity and how energy is radiated into the room? Height of drivers? Frequency extension?

the diffrence in Decay happen mostly at low frequency. because it is on high frequency near same, confirm that the directivity diffrences of speakers in high frequency doesnt matter at least at distances of upto 2.2 meter. if it happen more when speakers are 2-3 meter away in larger rooms should also test , to see how much it is in high freq or the better sound thru more directivity is only a myth in freq higher as 500 hz
 
I thought RT60 was only valid in what is considered to be a Large Room which is mostly a diffuse sound field... In what is considered a Small Room otherwise thought of as a Domestic Room... In a Small Room the diffuse sound field is usually only above Schroder and the Transition Zone...
 
I thought RT60 was only valid in what is considered to be a Large Room which is mostly a diffuse sound field... In what is considered a Small Room otherwise thought of as a Domestic Room... In a Small Room the diffuse sound field is usually only above Schroder and the Transition Zone...

You are correct. In fact Toole says it should not be called the RT60, it should be "specular reflection T60" since he says reverberant fields do not exist in small rooms. I wasn't so sure about that, so I came up with my own method to measure the RT60. A reverberant field should be the same no matter where it is measured in the room, so I measure the RT60 over a very large area in the listening room. I overlay all the measurements and see where they diverge. From maybe a dozen such measurements I have examined, the point of divergence is usually an octave above the transition zone.
 
You are correct. In fact Toole says it should not be called the RT60, it should be "specular reflection T60" since he says reverberant fields do not exist in small rooms. I wasn't so sure about that, so I came up with my own method to measure the RT60. A reverberant field should be the same no matter where it is measured in the room, so I measure the RT60 over a very large area in the listening room. I overlay all the measurements and see where they diverge. From maybe a dozen such measurements I have examined, the point of divergence is usually an octave above the transition zone.

yes that there is decay measure possible only in large rooms as Toole say is realy strange. I also think RT60 is too much and not need for small rooms. I do reverb tests and i think for small rooms better is a RT40. in small rooms the sound are more often reflect on walls as on large rooms. this also have the advantage that there can get better damping of wall, because when the audio hit 8 or more times floor or roof, also if damp only 0.5 db each it is sumed u. also keep in mind, many large rooms are also have only 3 meter height. so reverb reflections happen also in large rooms often on roof and floor but much less on side walls when room is 10 meters between walls or more

EDIT Addon: Important is only that you use for measure small room decay times a speaker, that have not much case resonances. the JBL 104 is the best i measure. On large rooms and long decay times speaker case resonances have maybe only 10-20% influence, but on small room it can be also larger as 100% influence .for example focal alpha 65 have at 193 hz 376 ms and the d3v have ~150 ms . on small rooms the 220 ms because of worse speaker is huge hearable. on a room or larger speaker distance with rt60 larger of 1 sec the 220 ms are only 20% influence

A logical thinking is that RT60 can not measure in small rooms audio experts come to the conclusion, because their test speakers have too much case resonances in bass range. nobody knows which speakers Toole use for his test or did you know ?. stand speakers have even more case resonances i have read
 
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