UNDERSTANDING GROUP DELAY

Gordon Palmer

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Mar 21, 2019
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22
I was running a few measurements on my multi subs.
Is there any significance to these measurements. Comparing unaligned to time aligned subs?
I use MSO so my subs are not time aligned in normal usage.


GD SUBS UNALIGNED.jpg GD SUBS ALIGNED.jpg

Thanks
 

sm52

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Mar 14, 2019
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The sound with the second graph should be clearer, without humming.
 

jtalden

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Location
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Preamp, Processor or Receiver
Marantz AV7705 Pre/Pro
Main Amp
VTV 6 chnl NC252MP P-amp x 2
Additional Amp
Behringer DCX2496 x 2
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
OPPO BDP-103 Universal Player
Front Speakers
DIY SEAS H1456/H1212 Spkr x 5
Subwoofers
DIY JBL 2235H 15" SW x 2
Video Display Device
JVC DLA-X790R
Screen
Da-Lite Da-Snap 39105V - 92"
Gordon, these charts alone are not very helpful.
If the subs are identical, they will have identical GD of the direct sound and the trace will smoothly increase at the lower frequencies. When they are all timed together, they will retain that same GD of the direct sound. If they are time a little differently, there may be some small impact, but I would expect it to be insignificant. The larger the timing difference the larger the impact.

Anything that impacts the SPL response will impact the phase and GD. The roughness variation of the posted curves is the result of the SWs different interaction with each other and the room. Room effects are large when measuring at the LP. It is a major contributor to large variation of the SPL and thus phase and GD. Deep nulls thus result in major phase and GD variation at that frequency. EQ impacts the results for the same reason.

All the old advice still applies. Place the SWs and LP to minimize the raw SPL variation at the LP. Treat the room and apply EQ to further smooth the response. Avoid EQ to deep nulls.

When timing the mains to SWs XO handoff, a timing error can have a major impact to the SPL in the XO region. There are 2 or 3 options that result similar favorable SPL response but different phase and GD responses. This choice may be more likely to result in a different bass sound quality.
 

Gordon Palmer

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Thread Starter
Joined
Mar 21, 2019
Messages
22
Gordon, these charts alone are not very helpful.
If the subs are identical, they will have identical GD of the direct sound and the trace will smoothly increase at the lower frequencies. When they are all timed together, they will retain that same GD of the direct sound. If they are time a little differently, there may be some small impact, but I would expect it to be insignificant. The larger the timing difference the larger the impact.

Anything that impacts the SPL response will impact the phase and GD. The roughness variation of the posted curves is the result of the SWs different interaction with each other and the room. Room effects are large when measuring at the LP. It is a major contributor to large variation of the SPL and thus phase and GD. Deep nulls thus result in major phase and GD variation at that frequency. EQ impacts the results for the same reason.

All the old advice still applies. Place the SWs and LP to minimize the raw SPL variation at the LP. Treat the room and apply EQ to further smooth the response. Avoid EQ to deep nulls.

When timing the mains to SWs XO handoff, a timing error can have a major impact to the SPL in the XO region. There are 2 or 3 options that result similar favorable SPL response but different phase and GD responses. This choice may be more likely to result in a different bass sound quality.
Thanks
 
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