Two-channel processor with subwoofer pre-out?

[Sonnie Parker]

I've been considering a simple two-channel setup, but need subwoofer pre-out in the processor.

One very MUST requirement is Roon ready.

Maybe I should start looking at the Roon partner models as a good starting place. After all... there are only a few...

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I've been considering a simple two-channel setup, but need subwoofer pre-out in the processor.

Off the top of my head...................NAD M33.

 

[Sonnie Parker]

That one has come up and I've even discussed it with NAD. I don't really need the amp portion, but it might replace my current amps.

Being what appears to be very limited options, it's certainly a good option, especially when they implement the balanced sub pre-out module.

 

[ddude003]

Are you looking for an integrated, a streamer, a preamp, a streamer/DAC/pre? Is it going to run to your ESLs or are you building an entire new system? Do you really need a special subwoofer pre-out or just a second stereo pre-out that a subwoofer would manage like a ML sub does? I know... So many questions...

There are a lot of nice choices in that list of yours/Roons...

 

[Sonnie Parker]

I want to experiment. I know this sounds crazy, and there is a good chance that I may not notice any improvement in the end, but I like experimenting, if you know what I mean.

My plan is to setup a separate two-channel system in my room along side my multi-channel system. The ONLY source for the two-channel system will be my Roon ROCK NUC for music, thus the Roon Ready requirement. This system will use the Classic 9 ESLs for the mains and share the SB16 subs. I'll use the Electromotion ESLs for the multi-channel setup for movies and TV, as front speaker placement is not that critical for me on movies and TV. I'm currently using those ESLs for side surround, but have the ESL wall mount units on the way to replace those, which will free them up for either the fronts in the multi-channel system or as wide speakers until I add the two-channel system.

So... separate amps and separate speakers for two-channel, but using the subs for both systems. One negative for the M33 is not having balanced sub pre-outs, which would require running additional RCA cables to the subs, which may be why I wait on NAD to get the balanced sub pre-out modules ready before I purchase the M33.

I prefer something with good DACs, and the M33 certainly has excellent DACs and appear to have implemented them well. So it's an option.

I'd like to keep my current amps for the Classic ESLs, so another negative is wasted amps, or selling my monoblocks and downgrading amp power. However, at this point there are not a lot of options for 2.1 preamps. Dirac is not a concern because I can use Convolution filters in Roon for correction.

 

[JStewart]

MiniDSP SHD

I had read somewhere it was now a Roon enabled endpoint but that info is conspicuously absent on the Roon partners page and MiniDSP’s SHD pages (unless I missed of course)

This page from the Roon community confirms https://community.roonlabs.com/t/minidsp-shd-uncertified-roon-endpoint-raat/80366 confirms, but with Roon’s recent stance on certification a couple of emails for confirmation will be in order.

The DAC section measured very well on ASR.

Review and Measurements of miniDSP SHD DAC, DSP And Streamer

This is a review and detailed measurements of the MiniDSP SHD DAC, audio processor and streaming appliance. It was drop shipped by a kind member to me. It retails for $1195 and it comes with a license for automatic Room Equalization software, Dirac (which I use personally on a PC). It even...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Has sub out, MiniDSP’s typical software for XOs and PEQs. Maybe FIR filters too, I didn’t check. And Dirac which you say you’re not going to use.

There’s a digital only version for a few hundred less.

Seems to check all your boxes IF Roon is confirmed.

 

[Sonnie Parker]

I am of course a big miniDSP fan, and I looked at the SHD, but scratched it due to not being Roon Ready.

As I have done for the HTP-1, I may be able to use it under developer status.

I'll check it out a bit closer... a viable option.

 

[JStewart]

As I have done for the HTP-1, I may be able to use it under developer status

If you follow the discussion from here
https://www.minidsp.com/forum/shd-s...upport-for-uncertified-devices?start=15#50632
the SHD has been certified and awaiting an update for certification implementation.

I think you may be able to use it under developer status in the meantime. I’m guessing that developer status applies to a Roon account vs a specific uncertified device.

Good luck.

 

[ddude003]

Am I understanding the specs on the MiniDSP SHD to say it will downsample incoming 192kHz to an internal sample rate of 96kHz ??? Not sure I would want a streamer that downsamples anything... There is some HD/HiRez content that is released at 192kHz... Even QoBuz has some content that it streams at 192kHz...

For reference my Lumin streamer can, if selected, upsample or downsample from 44.1kHz to DSD128 and supporting playback of DSD256 and 384kHz... My Chord DAC supports 44.1kHz up to 768kHz...

 

[Sonnie Parker]

My thinking is that it does, but that is better than 48kHz for other processors using Dirac.

It's not a major factor to me, as I can't tell the difference. We did a blind test at my house with several guys and no one could tell the difference. I suppose if there is a difference, it is subtle, or otherwise it simply doesn't matter to my ears.

 

[JStewart]

Am I understanding the specs on the MiniDSP SHD to say it will downsample incoming 192kHz to an internal sample rate of 96kHz ???

I think that’s the internal sample rate of the dsp which would actually be good if compared to a typical 48kHz sample rate of DSP in AVRs. If not using the dsp then I’d assume the AKM DACs will do whatever.

 

[Sonnie Parker]

I may end up using Convolution filters in Roon for crossover, timing and correction, so I assume that would bypass the DSP.

I'm not seeing anything else out there that has enough XLR outputs to accommodate the sub pre-out.

I've also decided to time-align my subs (front and rear) and combine them for one output to all four subs (summed). I have yet to notice any benefit of keeping them separate, instead it seems to make things slightly more difficult to balance, and Dirac does not get them time-aligned, instead it uses the timing in an attempt to improve the response, and it's not needed.

 

[Sonnie Parker]

The Anthem STR Preamp looks like a stellar unit... and has HT Bypass, which would make thing much more simpler for me. However... there is no mention of Roon... bummer.

 

[JStewart]

Really nice looking piece. Especially stacked on the matching amp. Saw them at the Florida audio expo in Jan.
For Roon you could use the digital out of a Bluesound Node 2i to that STR.

 

[Sonnie Parker]

I have an Intel NUC with Roon ROCK on it for my endpoint. I could use the USB out on it, but there is apparently some questions to it working properly, and it will require I move the NUC back into the listening room, which I can do.

 

[Todd Anderson]

My thinking is that it does, but that is better than 48kHz for other processors using Dirac.

It's not a major factor to me, as I can't tell the difference. We did a blind test at my house with several guys and no one could tell the difference. I suppose if there is a difference, it is subtle, or otherwise it simply doesn't matter to my ears.

True about Dirac. I can't hear the difference at 48kHz output. Maybe if you're 5 years old you'd hear a difference... but us older folks... no way.

I second that NAD.

 

[Todd Anderson]

I think that’s the internal sample rate of the dsp which would actually be good if compared to a typical 48kHz sample rate of DSP in AVRs. If not using the dsp then I’d assume the AKM DACs will do whatever.

Possible... but I wouldn't make that assumption. It might accept up to 192, but it very well may dump at 48.

 

[Sonnie Parker]

I believe Tony said the SHD is 96 even with Dirac... one of only two processors that have that processing capability.

I like the NAD, but don't need the amps... and don't want those amps, although I wouldn't mind having some Purifi mono amps (March Audio)... as I would like a little more power on my stats than what the NAD brings.

The STR is the nicest solution with HT Bypass... but it's not Roon Ready, so I'd have to move the NUC back into the room and hope that the USB out on the NUC with Roon ROCK is compatible with the STR. I will have to contact Anthem tech support to find out. The STR is also not MQA capable, but again, not a huge deal for me. I've switched between both and there is zero difference for me.

 

[ddude003]

If you are experimenting wouldn't you want discrete pieces you can swap in and out... Separate DACs, Streamers/Roon Endpoints and Preamplifiers... Many DACs to try... Many Streamers/Roon Endpoints try... And so many preamps to try... All with so many price points/features...

You could get a Razberry Pi and run it as a Roon Bridge/Endpoint instead of moving your NUC... I think that is one of the least expensive... Or a Sonore microRendu...

 

[Sonnie Parker]

I am going to spread out and ask in some of the other forums if anyone is using a ROCK NUC with the STR. Anthem tech support does not recommend anything other than a Windows or MAC based computer connected to the STR, but it might work. Their newer AVM70 and 90 will have Roon, but they are multi-channel. I prefer to keep my HTP-1 for multi-channel.

If you are experimenting wouldn't you want discrete pieces you can swap in and out... Separate DACs, Streamers/Roon Endpoints and Preamplifiers... Many DACs to try... Many Streamers/Roon Endpoints try... And so many preamps to try... All with so many price points/features...

You could get a Razberry Pi and run it as a Roon Bridge/Endpoint instead of moving your NUC... I think that is one of the least expensive...

The Pi is a possible solution with Bridge.

The DAC has to have an XLR sub pre-out... which limits my options. It would also be much easier to setup with the HTP-1 with HT Bypass. If I set it up separately, I'll have to use different front speakers for the HTP-1, which is okay since it's just movies/TV... although I would still rather not have two sets of speakers in the front. HT Bypass would make it so much easier.

 

[JStewart]

Possible... but I wouldn't make that assumption. It might accept up to 192, but it very well may dump at 48.

Thanks Todd, that's good point. I read through the manual and it is somewhat ambiguous.

For example it says this "The miniDSP SHD Series processors incorporate a custom version of the popular network audio endpoint Volumio, running on its own ARM CPU inside the SHD Series processor chassis. Volumio has a wealth of functions for controlling and delivering network audio at sample rates up to 192 kHz."

In the specs page it says this:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Digital audio inputs
Digital audio source selectable from IR remote or front panel:
• AES-EBU on Neutrik 3-pin female XLR / Isolated with digital audio transformer
• SPDIF on RCA connector / Isolated with digital audio transformer
• TOSLINK on Optical connector

The input signal is processed by a high quality onboard Asynchronous Sample Rate Converter for compatibility with most common sample rates (20-216kHz).

Ethernet audio input
Audio streaming with Volumio, up to 192 kHz sample rate

Audio resolution
32-bit input and output resolution, 96 kHz internal sample rate

Audio processing
32-bit floating-point processor. Flexible routing matrix, Dirac Live® room correction, user-programmable IIR filtering, individual delays and gains per channel.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I also couldn't find anywhere in the manual about a mode to bypass dsp functions.

Roon is not mentioned in the manual at all, but it would be ethernet, so maybe 192kHz?

Looks like reaching out to MiniDSP is needed to get a clear answer on what happens and when. And it also seems pretty clear that when using the DSP functions it will be downsampled and seems most likely to 96kHz.

 

[ddude003]

I am confused... We are talking about a 2 channel stereo system with an additional Sub(s)... Won't any preamp with dual XLR stereo pairs out work? Like what you drive Mono Blocks with... Only in your case you drive your amplifier to L&R speakers off one stereo pair of XLRs and drive your subs off the other XLR stereo pair... Your subs are active with their own build in amplifiers and crossovers? That is what I do with my preamp only I use RCA stereo pair cables...

 

[Sonnie Parker]

I have four subs that are time aligned with each other and summed, but I also need timing between the mains and subs. I'll need at least one sub XLR pre-out plus Left/Right stereo for the front mains. This is what the Anthem STR and the miniDSP SHD offer... both have 4 XLR pre-outs. I'll use two for the fronts and one for the sub. Both of these units allow timing between the mains and subs... or as long as I have 3 XLR DAC channels, I can use Convolution in Roon for timing. Either way, a minimum of 3 XLR pre-outs is necessary... and at least one has to be sub or assignable.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I believe Tony said the SHD is 96 even with Dirac... one of only two processors that have that processing capability.

My PC-based servers all do Dirac in multichannel at up to 192.

 

[Sonnie Parker]

My PC-based servers all do Dirac in multichannel at up to 192.

Manufactured processors that Dirac has partnered with?