Trying to decide...

[tesseract]

2.1 channel music-only system. 10.5 x 9.5 room, 8 ft. ceiling. Single seating position.

Tidal streaming, Pioneer universal player, Sherwood Newcastle R-972, Vapor Audio Sundogs and want to add...

SVS four SB-1000 PRO, two PB-3000 or one SB16-Ultra. All three systems are within a few hundred dollars of each other and this is my target expense. Yes, I am completely aware of the many benefits of multiple subs, but it is one listening position. The increase in dynamic range and lowered distortion will help the two smaller sub systems, the SB16 doesn't need a lot of help in those departments and the PEQ (and Trinnov, if I need it) will get me flat at the listening chair.

I want to try an all sealed system (Vapors mains are sealed), so I'll most likely be trying the SB16 first. Just wanted to bounce this off of the membership and get a little feedback.

Thanks!

 

[ddude003]

Less than 1000 cubic feet... I would go with a single "small" subwoofer... That new SVS 3000 Micro Subwoofer looks interesting... And the SB16-Ultra should be more than enough... Hope that room has some acoustic treatments...

 

[tesseract]

Less than 1000 cubic feet... I would go with a single "small" subwoofer... That new SVS 3000 Micro Subwoofer looks interesting... And the SB16-Ultra should be more than enough... Hope that room has some acoustic treatments...

The new Micro sub is attractive. I have a single SB12-NSD in there, right by the listening chair, facing sideways is where it works best, but it is not enough. I have another one new in the box that I could add, but decided to sell both NSDs when the new SB-1000 PRO w/DSP came out, wanting to take advantage of the 3-band PEQ. Then the idea went big, lol. I messaged back and forth with Ed Mullen and he suggests dual SB-4000 or dual SB16-Ultra! That is a LOT of horsepower. I am on a concrete slab foundation and that has made things tough, even for the dual vented 18s I use in the living room.

It will be easier to integrate one sub vs. multiples and the SB16 should give me what I need (hopefully). Then again, four SB-1000s would be easy to set up, according to Harman, Geddes and LeJeune. Honestly, the PB-3000 might be all I need, but I really want to try an all-sealed speaker system, as I hear that is optimal for music-only.

The back wall (behind the listening position) will likely get treated and corner traps are being considered. I do think people go overboard with treatments, that they should be used only where needed. No need to treat the front wall when using monopole speakers if you have properly taken care of the back wall. Diffusers set up on side walls, with the front diffusers blocking the ones behind them is another thing we often see. I tend toward speakers with great off-axis response and prefer to use the side wall reflections rather than destroy them, so no first reflection absorption for me. I'll likely be getting pair of dipoles, so once again, no side wall treatments needed (maybe the front wall at that point, yes). Bass traps help with midbass FR, low FR not so much. Just a few examples.

 

[Sonnie Parker]

I love my four SB16-Ultras, but my room is 3 times the size of your room. I still think dual subs is better, so think I'd lean that direction.

 

[tesseract]

I love my four SB16-Ultras, but my room is 3 times the size of your room. I still think dual subs is better, so think I'd lean that direction.

The budget/space requirements allow for dual SB-3000 or a single SB16-Ultra. I am kinda torn between the two. I know duals smooth the room but I only need to EQ for one spot. Do you think the two smaller subs can do the job as well as the one bigger?

 

[tesseract]

Spent some time last night dialing in the single SB12-NSD, to the point where I *almost* don't need anything more. I still have another one NIB to add to that! So, it seems a single SB-3000 will do everything I need, which means I better get two, right?

So, I just ordered dual SB-3000 in Piano Gloss Black.

 

[JStewart]

Those Sundogs deserved something special.

 

[ddude003]

@tesseract, "So, I just ordered dual SB-3000 in Piano Gloss Black."

Some is good, more is better and too much is just right...

 

[tesseract]

Funny thing is, the dual SB3k in Piano Gloss Black cost more than a single SB16-Ultra, lol.

Pretty sure I'd be happy with either, and neither will be taxed in a room of this size. Upgrading my electrical (two prong to GFCIs and Tripp Lite IsoBars) and continuing to put in the OT so that I can properly treat the room. Can't wait until these puppies get here. Might upgrade the Sherwood, but am appreciating the bass management system and anything that replaces it will need to have that. Might try popping in my non-BMS Exposure 2010S integrated, just for fun.

Now, what to do with the dual SB12-NSDs?

 

[Sonnie Parker]

Someone will buy it.

I think you'll be very happy once you get the 3000's dialed in.

 

[Ian Eales]

I still think dual subs is better, so think I'd lean that direction.

For 2 channel, 2 subs are optimal.
I looked long and hard for suitable a upgrade from a single Audio Concepts Force.
I chose 2x Martin Logan 800x. The ML X series are easy to set up and have all the controls necessary to integrate well:
Phase, Polarity, Multiple Order Choices.
The ML X series has Anthem Room Correction that can be run from a smartphone. With the Perfect Bass Kit, integration is a doddle.
I also think that rolling the bottom one to two octaves from the mains, depending on their capability, vastly improves overall performance.
Subs should be positioned close to mains if they reproduce into the upper bass as these frequencies are easily localizable.
See ieLogical Subterranean Homesick Blues for a couple of decades experience of working with home subs.

 

[Ton]

I added a REL to my 2 floor standing speakers (Duntechs), did some Roon DPS room correction and never looked back. The sub does not only deliver a deep base but has a positive effect on the whole sound image.

 

[Head_Unit]

it seems a single SB-3000 will do everything I need, which means I better get two, right?

My brother-in-law once said "donde come uno comen dos, donde comen dos comen tres...": mistranslation: you NEED four.

Now, what to do with the dual SB12-NSDs?

Why send them to me, of course, to reduce clutter. Glad to help!
Or you could keep them and integrate four subs...yowza!

 

[tesseract]

My brother-in-law once said "donde come uno comen dos, donde comen dos comen tres...": mistranslation: you NEED four.

Why send them to me, of course, to reduce clutter. Glad to help!
Or you could keep them and integrate four subs...yowza!

Yeah, I got a little clutter going on, lol. Only one of these boxes, the SB-3k box stacked topmost in the office room, is empty. I could run 4 subs, yes.

 

[tesseract]

@Ian Eales , that is a good site. I am especially impressed by this, "Whenever an equalization is applied, Phase is affected. It's important to remember this when adjusting filters as every filter adjustment may require a phase adjustment as well. ". I've a few decades of subwoofer integration, too, and that quote is true, important and often overlooked.

Thanks for the link!

 

[tesseract]

Been playing around with placement/settings for a couple of weeks. Ended up here, with the left sub phase set at 70 degrees, right at 0, a sharp, high Q PEQ cut centered around 27 Hz and a medium Q 3 dB boost centered around 50 Hz. That was a lot of work, sorting out the problems in this tiny room. Work still remains, but I now have somewhat of a handle on this capabilities and limitations of this new room.

Goosebumps happened tonight. Confident that not much more can be done at this point, I did some cable management, as the positioning is settled, for now.

Can't wait for the GIK Acoustics treatments to arrive, which will help the mains more than the subs, methinks, putting the icing on the cake. Window dressings will soon replace the paper left by the previous owners this house.

 

[Sonnie Parker]

Nice... very nice!

Except for the chair.

 

[tesseract]

That be an antique La-Z-Boy. It is so comfy, the only chair I've ever fallen asleep in and likely the reason for their success.

SVS app screenshots...

 

[Todd Anderson]

Looking good! I’m sure Sonnie meant to tell you that need to lift those cables off the ground!

 

[FargateOne]

I am having the same dilema but with a single SVS PC-2000 and the same cubic roo : 1325 cube feet. I was looking to replace by 2 SB1000 pro as you . I would like to know why you choosed PB3000 instead. My room is treated and would like to have advice if possible of fellow members!

 

[Sonnie Parker]

Looking good! I’m sure Sonnie meant to tell you that need to lift those cables off the ground!

On top of all that interference from the multi-outlet unit in front of the AVR... need to wrap that in tinfoil.

 

[ddude003]

You will definitely get more air if you lift the cables off the ground... Put that outlet in a Faraday cage or SCIF... And _please_ cover that chair with some Scotchgard...

 

[Sonnie Parker]

I think the chair has got to go... period. Scotchguard ain't gonna help it... that will make the waves bounce off of it.

 

[ddude003]

Radio waves... Roger Waters...