SVS Ultra Center Channel Upgrade

[Marcus DiBenedetto]

Hi everyone, Happy New Year.

Many of you know that I have the SVS Ultra Bookshelf surround system. I've owned this system for about 4 or 5 years. I've recently discovered a well regarded speaker designer, Danny at GR-Research. He proposed a crossover upgrade to the SVS Ultra Center channel speaker (see linked video). I ordered it and it will be at my home Friday. I know there are a lot of SVS enthusiasts here so I will build and install the new crossover and let you know what I think. He is currently designing a crossover upgrade for the Ultra bookshelves. He's done a lot of other upgrades with good reaction. He also offers several DIY models which are very well regarded.

Who knows? Maybe I'll become a DIY guy.

Marcus
Las Vegas, NV
SVS Ultra Center upgrade

 

[Sonnie Parker]

I know Danny very well... heard a few of the speakers he built back years ago... ate dinner with him in Texas one night. He was one of our sponsors over at HTS, but I kinda lost touch with him when we sold HTS back in 2014. I thought he was trying to sell GR Research at that time, but I guess he decided against it. After getting back into the industry, thinking he was gone, I haven't tried to make any contact with him. Glad you brought him up, as now I'll have to reach out to him. Danny has ears to die for, so my guess is you'll like what he does.

 

[Marcus DiBenedetto]

Danny has a pretty recent video in which he says, probably because of Covid, his business in 2020 has increased 400%. He's had to triple parts orders (that is if he can get products from suppliers who are not shut down). Interesting times! Glad you know of him. He's had help from Ron at New Record Day (YouTube) getting a YouTube channel going which I'm sure is also helping sales growth.

 

[tesseract]

I own a couple of speakers pairs designed by Danny and have always enjoyed his shows demos. Excited to hear he is offering upgrades for Ultras.

 

[Sonnie Parker]

I guess with soooo many folks being at home... working from home, etc... they have more time to tinker with their toys, so they start to figure out ways to upgrade their audio.

 

[Coy Ramsey]

Hi everyone, Happy New Year.

Many of you know that I have the SVS Ultra Bookshelf surround system. I've owned this system for about 4 or 5 years. I've recently discovered a well regarded speaker designer, Danny at GR-Research. He proposed a crossover upgrade to the SVS Ultra Center channel speaker (see linked video). I ordered it and it will be at my home Friday. I know there are a lot of SVS enthusiasts here so I will build and install the new crossover and let you know what I think. He is currently designing a crossover upgrade for the Ultra bookshelves. He's done a lot of other upgrades with good reaction. He also offers several DIY models which are very well regarded.

Who knows? Maybe I'll become a DIY guy.

Marcus
Las Vegas, NV
SVS Ultra Center upgrade

Look forward to your impressions. I saw DR's video on the Ultra center channel and his prep video on the bookshelf. With my old ears and damaged hearing I tend to be skeptical on "jaw-dropping" or "significant" descriptors for sound improvements when I can't tell the difference between a cheap Klipsch speaker and an expensive Monitor speaker (ok, that may be a "significant" overstatement ). I understand where an experienced, trained listener may indeed hear some improvements when he focuses on exactly what he changed in a speaker design but can the average consumer really hear an overall improvement ? Maybe your assessment will answer that question.

 

[Marcus DiBenedetto]

Coy, you may be correct and I appreciate your comments. I can't answer your question yet as I am knee deep in crossover parts. I am almost 70 but I still believe I can hear pretty well (selective hearing as my wife tells me, hahaha). The SVS Ultras have provided me with an excellent listening experience (best bang for the buck, in my opinion). Replacing the crossover from aluminum and steel to copper with upgraded parts makes me feel, for the money, it should be a worthwhile upgrade. I will most certainly upgrade the bookshelves when Danny makes them available.

Bottom line. I retired a few months ago and we have Covid keeping me home. I have the time and the desire to do this project. I listen to classical SACD in multichannel surround and I am looking for improvement, especially choral and soprano voices. Certainly, I will post my assessment.

Marcus

 

[Sonnie Parker]

@Coy Ramsey ... I think you are right for the most part. I can tell you that I cannot hear what Danny can hear, and I have first hand experience with it. I cannot hear what Dennis Young can hear from first hand experience. However, the differences were very subtle, not significant to any extent. So I would say not everyone is going to know the difference.

Having said that... I still prefer to have equipment in my system that has tested well and/or is known by those with great hearing to perform well. While I might not be able to pinpoint the differences, I don't want anything hindering me and my ears from hearing all that I can possibly hear... if that makes sense.

 

[Coy Ramsey]

Absolutely agree. With my poor hearing I want every advantage possible, esp for dialog.

 

[Marcus DiBenedetto]

Danny posted a YouTube video yesterday on his SVS Ultra bookshelf crossover upgrade. I am almost done with the Center channel upgrade. Of course, I will post my thoughts when the project is completed. What I like about the upgrade on all three speakers is upgraded quality of crossover parts, copper wiring throughout (why not? My speaker wire is excellent copper wire), and improved frequency response. Can I hear the difference? Not sure. Will I feel "emotionally" better having done the upgrade? Absolutely!

GR Research SVS Ultra Bookshelf Upgrade

Marcus
Las Vegas, NV

 

[Coy Ramsey]

Danny posted a YouTube video yesterday on his SVS Ultra bookshelf crossover upgrade. I am almost done with the Center channel upgrade. Of course, I will post my thoughts when the project is completed. What I like about the upgrade on all three speakers is upgraded quality of crossover parts, copper wiring throughout (why not? My speaker wire is excellent copper wire), and improved frequency response. Can I hear the difference? Not sure. Will I feel "emotionally" better having done the upgrade? Absolutely!

GR Research SVS Ultra Bookshelf Upgrade

Marcus
Las Vegas, NV

I've watched a lot of the videos from GR Research including the ones about modifying the Ultras. Every once in awhile he will comment about a particular speaker's components being "good" or "well designed" and he made such a comment about the Ultra cabinet. To me, this indicates that you've chosen a good foundation for the upgrades and that it should benefit from the modifications. I'm not sure that I can tell the differences in specific components but good parts in a good speaker box with a smoother freq curve should be "directionally correct". The Ultra center is definitely on my upgrade list (with DR's c/o naturally). As I mentioned to Sonnie, I need all the help that I can get for improved dialog.

 

[Marcus DiBenedetto]

If anyone is considering these upgrades, let me share my experience so far. Danny has two excellent videos on building a crossover (two different speaker models). Even so, I did have to send him an email asking for some clarifications. Once completed (except for solder) I sent him a photo for his approval. In the case of SVS they used a "special" screw to hold the speakers to the box. I don't know what it is called but luckily I had one in my drill bit box. You will also need two needle nose plyers to tighten wires, wire cutter to cut off excess wire and zip ties, a soldering iron, heat gun for shrink wrap, drill bits to drill holes in to the crossover base and some wood (1/4 inch thick works). I cut my wood down to 5 inches by 6 inches to fit into the speaker box. Alternatively, there are folks you can hire to do this. But, I am actually having fun learning and doing this project.

Marcus

 

[Todd Anderson]

I'm curious about this... following!

 

[Marcus DiBenedetto]

@Todd Anderson Thanks for following! I am stuck at the moment because Danny told me he is out of stock on Tube Connectors. He is not shipping the bookshelf upgrade until he has everything in stock. My center channel speaker is also on hold for some parts on order. Danny released a video just this morning saying that he is receiving upwards of 100 emails a day (and he is trying to answer all of them) plus folks are sending him a huge volume of speakers for his analysis and upgrade proposals. WOW! COVID has certainly driven his business through the roof!

Anyway, since my speakers are on hold, I took the opportunity to completely tear apart my electronics and cables. My wife thinks I'm crazy OCD about all of it (hahaha). I have on top of my two amplifiers and my pre/pro AC Infinity AIRCOM T8 fans. They do a great job keeping components cool BUT what a mess of dust buildup (I do live in Las Vegas). Vacuum and cleaning was essential. I am also trying to organize better the "rats nest" of cables. This is quite a project. It is a labor of love and I am just about done. Retirement gives me the gift of time to do this.

I will continue updates to this thread plus my thoughts on the speaker upgrades. Cleaning and re-wiring all the electronics will make sure the signal going to the speakers will be as good as possible. By the way, I use Bluejeans cables for everything. Speaker wire is their 12 gauge. I've spoken with Wayne at Bluejeans (he is VERY responsive) while re-wiring everything and he has been helpful and reassuring. What an adventure. AV NIRVANA for sure!

Marcus

 

[Harbormaster]

Looking forward to your review. I completed the upgrade a couple of weeks ago and like you i was looking for challenging audio project. I am not qualified to offer an opinion if the upgrade made a difference in sound quality. I will say that i enjoyed the process and it kept me busy for the better part of a week. I also had to send pictures to Danny and he did reply within a day. His comments were to the point. He does not waste words. To many emails to answer. I especially liked his comment on the mid crossover picture i sent for approval "not pretty but correct"
I am still listening and letting the parts break in. Also, my 74 year old ears need to get use to a different sounding speaker. I think better.

 

[Marcus DiBenedetto]

@Harbormaster Thank you for posting your experience. I'm on hold waiting for parts which Danny says will be in stock mid-February. He won't even ship out the bookshelf parts until he has all of them in stock. Meanwhile, I completed the crossovers for the center channel. It is sitting in my workshop ready for installation. I'm anxious for all three speakers to be done! I'm almost 70 and can't say if I will hear any difference. I too enjoyed the the process.

Marcus

 

[Harbormaster]

FYI , the special screws you mentioned that SVS uses to attach the speakers is a 3mm hex allen wrench. Also if you are installing the Norez in the cabinet I would take some precautions. Im not sure but it is lined with a thin layer of a heavy metal (lead ?). Messy when using a table saw to cut. I did install the tube connectors and attached them to the original binding post for comparison but did not hear any difference. It makes sense that there should be a clear path from the receiver to the speaker but my old ears can't hear it. I will continue to use the tube connectors knowing It is the best connection I can make.
Please keep in mind my comments regarding tube connectors is my experience. Not everyone is going to experience the sound the same way.

 

[Marcus DiBenedetto]

@Harbormaster Ouch! Sad you do not hear a difference. I'm just about 70 and may have a similar result. But, as I've said before, a fun (learning) project and emotionally I will know I have improved the crossover parts. I can't afford new speakers (would love to build the NX-Studio). Therefore, I want the SVS speakers to sound as great as possible. Regarding NoRez, I did not have a problem cutting and installing.

Marcus

 

[Ty_Tanium]

Interesting thread for me as I'm considering both center channel and bookshelf upgrades. I'm rather surprised that Harbormaster wasn't able to discern any kind of a difference at all which makes me wonder if it would be worthwhile strictly from a sound improvement standpoint. I'll be very interested in finding out what the OP thinks.

 

[Marcus DiBenedetto]

We are all STILL waiting on parts. Danny said he has DHL tracking on the parts. Let's hope he gets them soon. Meanwhile, aside from cleaning and rewiring my components, I tackled my PC. I built the PC about 4 years ago. But, since then I have added a NAS to hold all music and movies. Works great. Since the PC is only used for music/movie playback (using JRiver MC 27) I decided it was time to make sure it is working optimally. Of course, I could buy an audio server but didn't want to spend the money. I will see what I can do with my PC.

I've gone through "far too many" YouTube videos and audiophile magazine articles that my head hurts. Since the computer no longer stores music & videos, I removed all hard drives except the SSD "C" drive, upgraded ethernet cables, made sure modem, router NAS and PC are all connected properly and deleted the vast majority of PC programs and turned off many Windows functions. I think all of this had a positive effect (but it could be the "placebo" effect). I also decided it was time to install Fidelizer Pro. Again, I think it had a positive effect. I also got help from JRiver forum users to help me set up the program for best use. The program converts DSD to PCM then sends the data via HDMI to my pre/pro (so it can apply Audyssey settings, crossover, etc.)..

My last change will be to include fidelizer's EtherStream network switch (have not received it yet). Apparently, local LANs can have "jitter" issues. No so bad for everyday use but can greatly affect audio data transmission. Explanations of jitter were helpful. Reviews were uniformly excellent. So, what the heck, let's go for it. Once I get the switch installed, I am done. As far as I'm concerned, the digital (mostly DSD) music files will have a safe and robust journey from NAS to my pre/pro.

Marcus

 

[Ty_Tanium]

Great minds think alike. I've been thinking about a NAS unit for that purpose also. Glad to hear the positive comments. I know there's a lot of people out there that do it that way. I'm one of those seniors that doesn't jump on the latest technology train to roll in, but I usually get on sooner or later - I let the youngsters take care of the growing pains so I don't have to go through them, ha!

 

[Marcus DiBenedetto]

Update!

Finally! Here it is a month since my last post and I now have all the parts to complete the upgrade. Yesterday, I finished wiring the new crossovers and installing them. The upgrade, for me, was a bit complicated and time consuming. The center channel includes two subwoofers, a tweeter and a mid range driver. This required wiring the crossovers on to two separate pieces of wood (each 6" by 5"). One held the tweeter and woofer circuits while the other one held the mid range driver circuit. This made wiring everything together a bit challenging. I also lined the cabinet with NoRez. Danny said the SVS cabinets are very strong but adding NoRez would be helpful with resonance. Lastly, I used fiberglass instead of polyfill over the circuits and around the speakers (this is Danny's preference over polyfill).

Results: I plugged the speaker in to my system and guess what? NO SMOKE (hahaha). It actually worked (feeling proud of myself). I played it for about 2 hours and it sounds great. Of course, I need to let the parts "burn in" for a while. Meanwhile, I will build the new Ultra bookshelf crossovers. I have all the parts and the crossover looks way simpler. Plus, now I have some experience and I feel more confident with soldering. I hope to have the two bookshelves done by Monday.

After the bookshelf speakers are done and back in to my system I can do some serious listening tests. I'll report back with my thoughts.

Link to Danny's measurements after the upgrade:
SVS Ultra Bookshelf
SVS Ultra Center

Marcus

 

[Coy Ramsey]

Before you do both bookshelfs, can you do one and A/B the difference ?

 

[Marcus DiBenedetto]

@Coy Ramsey Sure Coy, I can try a comparison. I'm not sure my 70 year old ears will "hear" a difference for several reasons. The parts are all new and will need a couple weeks of burn in. Also, Danny's measurements show the improvement on paper. Hearing the difference will take time. To be honest, I do not discount the placebo effect. In other words, I did all this work so I will "think" they sound better. As I said earlier, simply replacing the crossover with quality parts and copper wiring satisfies me. However, what I want is increased instrument and vocal clarity. I listen to classical music (mostly DSD or FLAC 24/96) files.

I'm retired now. I can't afford any more new equipment. What I've done is try and improve/upgrade everything I currently own. Once the bookshelf speakers are done I will use REW to measure because, as we all know, the room dominates the sound. I may add some more bass traps from GIK Acoustics. But, to tell the truth, I really enjoy what I have right now. The SVS Ultras are very well regarded by reviewers. Adding the upgraded crossover parts makes them as good as they can be. I have moved the speakers out in to the room (about 8 feet from the walls). This sounded better but the wife was not happy at all.

An interesting hobby, to be sure!

Marcus

 

[Coy Ramsey]

@Coy Ramsey Sure Coy, I can try a comparison. I'm not sure my 70 year old ears will "hear" a difference for several reasons. The parts are all new and will need a couple weeks of burn in. Also, Danny's measurements show the improvement on paper. Hearing the difference will take time. To be honest, I do not discount the placebo effect. In other words, I did all this work so I will "think" they sound better. As I said earlier, simply replacing the crossover with quality parts and copper wiring satisfies me. However, what I want is increased instrument and vocal clarity. I listen to classical music (mostly DSD or FLAC 24/96) files.

I'm retired now. I can't afford any more new equipment. What I've done is try and improve/upgrade everything I currently own. Once the bookshelf speakers are done I will use REW to measure because, as we all know, the room dominates the sound. I may add some more bass traps from GIK Acoustics. But, to tell the truth, I really enjoy what I have right now. The SVS Ultras are very well regarded by reviewers. Adding the upgraded crossover parts makes them as good as they can be. I have moved the speakers out in to the room (about 8 feet from the walls). This sounded better but the wife was not happy at all.

An interesting hobby, to be sure!

Marcus

Been there, done that - passed 70 "several" yrs ago myself. Dialog clarity for HT is my big goal and am considering the SVS Ultra cc to help. I follow GR Research as well and think that their mods are directionally correct but, you're right, can we detect a real improvement in sound quality ? Maybe so, likely not. I understand the changes that he makes and don't argue that DR can hear a difference but can the average listener while watching a movie or listening to music ? Anyway, you now have a chance to decide for yourself, well done !!!