SVS SB-2000 Pro or SB-3000?

[Mike-48]

I'm having a hard time deciding between these similarly priced and specified subs. The application is a third (!) sub in my music-only system. Temporarily installing the inexpensive sub from my desktop system suggests that a third sub will solidify the bass in the main system further, without necessarily making it louder.

I know this excessive, but I have reason to believe some of you don't object to excess. You know who you are!

What I see is that the SB-3000 has more output (I don't need that), is 16 pounds heavier (a better cabinet?), has an 800W amp vs. a 500W amp, and that its driver has a split voice coil (I don't know what that is and why it's good). I guess, since it's a music system, I would rather have the one with lower distortion; however, SVS doesn't post those specs.

Anyone?

 

[Sonnie Parker]

I might resemble one of those excessive subbers.

More power = more headroom and lower distortion at lower volumes, so I'd choose the 3000.

But really... I'd recommend getting three SB16-Ultras and just be done with it.

 

[Mike-48]

Thanks for the perspective, Sonnie. I am leaning towards the SB-3000.

I figured you were joking, but the SB-16 Ultra looks like a superb sub! And compared to the JL Audio units I'm using, it's a bargain. Not for me in this lifetime, I'm afraid, for space and weight reasons.

 

[Todd Anderson]

I'm with Sonnie on this. There isn't a day that goes by where I regret the quad deployment use.

Always go as BIG as possible when it comes to subs. Budget is typically a limiting factor, so I'd go as big as the budget will afford ;-)

Go with the SB-3000... I'm not all that familiar with your JL subs, but the 3000 is likely more powerful than they are. If that's the case, they'll become the limiting factor in your system, which leaves more room for future upgrades ;-).

Can't go wrong with SVS

 

[Mike-48]

I'm not all that familiar with your JL subs, but the 3000 is likely more powerful than they are.

Thanks, Todd!

The JL F112 have 12" drivers and amps rated 1500W short-term each, so yes, a little less imposing than the SB-3000. They are heavier, though, at 107 lb boxed each, compared to 64 lb for the SB-3000. New rev.2 ones are about 4-5x the cost of the SB-3000, a kind of Mercedes of subs; mine have served me well for 14 years now. But it's not likely I'll add a third JL.

The main limiting factors here are size and weight. The room isn't huge, and I've resolved not to buy any audio gear I can't lift by myself. There is plenty of bass already. The reason to add a sub or two is filling nodes, which in my basement room are strong, despite extensive acoustic treatment.

 

[dsnyder0cnn]

I'm having a hard time deciding between these similarly priced and specified subs. The application is a third (!) sub in my music-only system. Temporarily installing the inexpensive sub from my desktop system suggests that a third sub will solidify the bass in the main system further, without necessarily making it louder.

I know this excessive, but I have reason to believe some of you don't object to excess. You know who you are!

What I see is that the SB-3000 has more output (I don't need that), is 16 pounds heavier (a better cabinet?), has an 800W amp vs. a 500W amp, and that its driver has a split voice coil (I don't know what that is and why it's good). I guess, since it's a music system, I would rather have the one with lower distortion; however, SVS doesn't post those specs.

Anyone?

Have you considered the 3000 Micro? I'm running a pair of those in a dedicated 2-channel system, and they have really impressed me. Honestly, two are overkill in my 15.5 x 10 ft room wrt output (I have levels set to -25 dB). I think it's an ideal sub for a music system. The small size makes placement uncommonly flexible. I think you'll be impressed by what it can do in your room.

 

[Sonnie Parker]

One thing you have to consider is if you play at louder volumes, there may be some discrepancies between the frequency response at low, mid and high volumes when you start mixing subs. Incremental increase in volume likely won't be the exact same with two different subs/amps. So if you tune them to match at say 85dB, but you change the volume to 95dB then the combined response will be from the sub with the most output at that level. The dominating sub will prevail. Of course this is easy enough to see. Measure the combined response of the subs at 75dB, 85dB and 95dB. It may not vary much, but it could if the two subs are too different. You may want to keep this in mind if you begin to want to add more subs to replace your JL's, which are no doubt quite capable subs. I've owned a half dozen of their Stealth boxes and love their car amps... have a VX1000i now and it's far advanced over most other amps with all its features.

 

[CAAudiophile]

I have 4 SVS subs for my music room, 2x SB3000 and 2x SB2000 Pro. Like Sonnie mentioned, the more the merrier, however the more subs the more complication ... but at the end BASS Nirvana. I started out with one SB2000 Pro, then I added SB 3000 the combo BASS was great then I swabbed the SB 2000 Pro with SB3000. Now I had 2x SB3000. Then got 2 more SB 2000 pro, love the combo with the SB 3000. Now I got SB 2000 Pro on top of SB3000 (x 2 ) for each channel. But I have to say that the SB3000 is great with very low distortion. The trick is the PHASE ALIGNMENT between all subs and the main speakers. Make sure to chose a frequency that is common to both main speakers and subs i.e. 80HZ, or could be any frequency. Find out the phase of your main at X frequency and align all subs phase angle to that using the SUB DSP . then you are in business. The beauty about SVS subs higher model is they all have the DSP, it gives the option to much better control so you can dial in to a specific phase angle rather than to 0 -180.
Enjoy

 

[tesseract]

I own dual SB-3000s and am very familiar, excepting the 4000 Series and new Micro, with the SVS lineup.

The 3000 is noticeably better than the 2000.

 

[tesseract]

I do plan on getting a third SB-3000 to help with room smoothing... or just getting one SB16-Ultra and eq'ing for one location.

 

[Mike-48]

Have you considered the 3000 Micro? I'm running a pair of those in a dedicated 2-channel system, and they have really impressed me. Honestly, two are overkill in my 15.5 x 10 ft room wrt output (I have levels set to -25 dB). I think it's an ideal sub for a music system. The small size makes placement uncommonly flexible. I think you'll be impressed by what it can do in your room.

View attachment 43167

Now, that is a true audiophile room . . . plenty of blue tape in mine these days, as I evaluate sub positions. I see you use stools for positioning -- I used milk crates from Office Depot until I got stuff mounted.

Thanks for the recommendation of the 3000 Micro. A couple of days ago, I ordered an SB-3000, arriving Tuesday (in three days). I have the technology for level matching, EQ, and phase adjustment (and the patience, I think).

(Recently, a friend had me increase the subs' level by 3 dB when playing organ music. It sounds great -- though I wouldn't want that balance for most other music.)

I'll post again when it's set up.

 

[Mike-48]

One thing you have to consider is if you play at louder volumes, there may be some discrepancies between the frequency response at low, mid and high volumes when you start mixing subs.

This is an interesting issue that I have no way of addressing, so I plan to ignore it. That's not to say I don't appreciate the comment . . . I do appreciate it!

Given my worsening tinnitus, it's unlikely I'll be playing them loud enough for it to be a significant concern.

 

[Sonnie Parker]

Yeah... lol... the only way to address it is use the same model subs.

I have mixed subs... (4x SB16 and 2x PB16) but only on movies, as I typically have a standard volume level for watching movies that rarely varies. I vary music a lot more, so I prefer to keep those all the same, hence the PB16's are not connected to the music processor..

Oddly, my tinnitus only bothers me at a certain volume level... kind of medium. If I turn it up a little louder than what I consider medium, the bass clacking noise goes away. I generally always well past the tone noise.

 

[Mike-48]

By the way, the SB-3000 is installed in the best position of seven tried, and with phase adjusted on all three subs to get smoothest response when they and the mains are playing. The SB-3000 supplements the JLs nicely at both ends of their frequency range, and the result is firmer and more even bass -- very nice! Piano left hand is fuller and more solid, really about all I could ask for. The one remaining nit is a little too much upper bass, which I'm hoping to get rid of by adjusting the crossover settings in ARC.

 

[tesseract]

By the way, the SB-3000 is installed in the best position of seven tried, and with phase adjusted on all three subs to get smoothest response when they and the mains are playing.

Here is a napkin draft of all the positions I tried, X being left SB3k, O being the right. I ended up putting them where the mains are depicted, lol.

Still playing with the app's DSP phase on both subs and I bought GIK corner traps and absorption panels, Phase 1 of a two phase plan to conquer this small room.

 

[Sonnie Parker]

You can use REW's acoustical timing reference and impulse overlays to set the timing between the two subs.

 

[Mike-48]

Still playing with the app's DSP phase on both subs and I bought GIK corner traps and absorption panels, Phase 1 of a two phase plan to conquer this small room.

Well, good! I have better results since adding a third sub, placed asymmetrically. Bass got smoother and more extended. Even my trials with a small B&W 10" sub made things better. Something you might consider, even in your smallish room.

 

[tesseract]

@Mike-48 , I do have a NIB SB12 NSD I could add, but will likely sell it and just get a third SB3k for the DSP app.

 

[Mike-48]

@Mike-48 , I do have a NIB SB12 NSD I could add, but will likely sell it and just get a third SB3k for the DSP app.

I'd be interested to hear how it works out for you.

 

[Mike-48]

One thing you have to consider is if you play at louder volumes, there may be some discrepancies between the frequency response at low, mid and high volumes when you start mixing subs. Incremental increase in volume likely won't be the exact same with two different subs/amps. So if you tune them to match at say 85dB, but you change the volume to 95dB then the combined response will be from the sub with the most output at that level.

Hi @Sonnie -- I've been thinking over what you said, and it's a more subtle point than I originally realized. My first impression was, "Sonnie is saying that one or both subs changes frequency response with volume. But wouldn't that be a defect?" We all hope that our speakers will maintain the same FR at any reasonable volume (and I do listen at reasonable volumes).

Then I thought, "No -- Sonnie is saying that the subs don't necessarily increase volume at the same rate with changes in input voltage. So the frequency response of the subs together will depend on volume." That seemed more likely. But when I thought about it, it didn't seem right, either. Wouldn't that situation be exactly the same with subs and mains when run in the same system? That frequency response would change with volume? I hope that's not the case -- it's surely not what any user or manufacturer would intend (except maybe for Fletcher-Munsen compensation). Or do mains and subs really only match at one volume setting in most systems?

I haven't done the measurements myself, and it will be a while before I can. But that thought experiment leads me to believe it should not be a problem, or people would be complaining about their mains and subs not tracking. What do you think? What do others think?

 

[Sonnie Parker]

Only referring to two different subs combined. Generally your mains and subs are crossed over, so they are not playing the same frequencies (with the exception of some overlap at the crossover frequency that would be below full output.

Not all subs that are different would necessarily exhibit this behavior, but it's best to check it and make sure. Volume levels may not always be the same on all subs as the volume increases. I can increase the volume on one of my subs just 1dB and the response is different when combined.

 

[Mike-48]

Thanks, @Sonnie. Definitely, the subs have different responses from one another, so the balance between them is critical. When I change volume on everything at once, however, my impression is that they track. I'll measure some day to be sure.

 

[Sonnie Parker]

The example would be an SVS sub that has a 1500 watt amp combined with a MartinLogan sub that has a 1000 watt amp... both very good subs. If you equalize them together at say 75dB, but then turn the volume up on both to try to obtain around 95dB, will they both measure the same since the increase in volume on a 1000 watt amp is not necessarily the same as increase in volume on a 1500 watt amp. The closer your amps are in power, the more likely they will be closer matched, but I don't know that for sure.

 

[Mike-48]

@Sonnie , I understand the idea behind what you're saying. I'm just not sure that it happens in practice. As I said before, if it does happen in practice, we wouldn't be able to match mains with subs . . . as we changed volume, the balance between them would change. (I agree there's a crossover, but that doesn't affect the issue.) For example, my JL subs have about 800 wpc, and the main speakers are driven with a 300 wpc amp. When I change volume, they stay in balance, as far as I can hear.

What I think actually happens is that when we raise master volume by 3 dB, everything connected to the processor increases its volume by 3 dB. That's why we can use any main speaker with any subwoofer without special matching. And the same should apply to ganging subs together.

Eventually, I'll take measurements so have at least one empirical example.

 

[Sonnie Parker]

You may be right, but I have verified this happens in the past with measurements, but only when two speakers are playing the same frequency did it change.