REW EQ - smoothing?

[Horst]

Hello,
I have another basic question about equalising with REW's built-in EQ.
Which smoothing should be set for the measured curve for the subsequent correction in REW?
The correction is different if, for example, 1/6 smoothing or 1/3 smoothing or psychacoustic is set. Until now I had set the 1/6 smoothing, but in the meantime I am of the opinion that I should use the psychoacoustic curve, then I need fewer filters and the automatic correction uses flatter (Q) filters. I think this preserves the basic characteristics of the speakers better.
Which smoothing do you use (I use a DCX2496)?

 

[ddude003]

Seems to me that Psychoacoustic Smoothing is looking to deal with below the Schroeder frequency, the Transition Zone and above the Schroeder frequency... Which makes reasonable sense to me... Although, I use FIR filters and Convolution for Room Correction as a base line, no smoothing or EQ filters... Then I add a layer of Color and/or Tone Shaping with some emulations of a Manley Massive Passive or GML 8200... There are many different ways to manage various EQ applications in both HW and/or SW given ones requirements and goals...

 

[Horst]

Good morning

First - thank you

Yes, there are of course different approaches to correcting. I would like to have a Trinnov in my cinema :-; but I only have the DCX 2496 available.
I actually wanted to know if there are differences in the correction when you change the smoothing - as far as I have observed - yes.
Because the corrected kruve looks different and the filters are also set differently.

Now my question which procedure in relation to the first question is the best - in connection with my DCX 2496 ?

Smoothing 1/3 or 1/6 or psychoacoustic or.....
Maybe there are other tricks and tips

Thanks Alpi

 

[JStewart]

If you will EQ below 300Hz or so, i.e., the transition or Schroeder frequency, and EQing from a single point measurement then use no smoothing.

A different method would be the Moving Mic Method using REW’s RTA (Real Time Analyzer).

MMM mouving measurements method, which one is best with REW?

Hi, I saw this video: And I was surprised how fast they seem to move the mic. I am only an amateur here, but I followed the following method instead: https://mehlau.net/audio/room-correction-peq/index.html Measure speaker response Set RTA > Averages > forever Hold the mic at the main...

www.avnirvana.com

 

[ddude003]

Good morning

First - thank you

Yes, there are of course different approaches to correcting. I would like to have a Trinnov in my cinema :-; but I only have the DCX 2496 available.
I actually wanted to know if there are differences in the correction when you change the smoothing - as far as I have observed - yes.
Because the corrected kruve looks different and the filters are also set differently.

Now my question which procedure in relation to the first question is the best - in connection with my DCX 2496 ?

Smoothing 1/3 or 1/6 or psychoacoustic or.....
Maybe there are other tricks and tips

Thanks Alpi

Seems you answered your own question regarding if smoothing affects the EQ filters produced...
As for what is best is what ever sounds good to you... Additionally you might try Variable smoothing... Or try only EQing below Schroeder... Tip... Use room treatments first then add EQ... Actually, the best tip I can give you is to try a lot of different things and find what sounds best to you with your kit, room, ear/brain...

 

[Horst]

Hello
thank you very much yes you are right not only measure but also listen! Unfortunately, I have neglected that until now. I was at a friend's cinema with the Miller&Kreisel S300 in the front, a 6-way SBA and it sounded really precise and full. However, he also has a Trinnov Altidude 32 at his disposal and I have to calibrate everything with REW and correct it with the DCX2496 - but that's fun and I also learn something. Sonically I'm not far away from my friend's cinema but I want to try to get the best out of it, that's why I asked how you do the correction.
Next week I will measure and listen a lot and believe that I can still get a little out of my speakers. :-)
For my DBA 2x4 LAB12 I want a more potent power amp than the Behringer 6000DSP. I would like to have a GOOD 2x 2000W power amp with DSP. Maybe you have a tip.

Have a nice evening

 

[ddude003]

Hi @Horst, I don't have enough information about your kit or room to make any specific recommendations... It would be helpful if you filled out your Account details and/or added your system to the AV Showcase...

It looks like the trick with the Trinnov is amplitude, phase and impulse management/correction... As well as bass steering... Seems to me that so far your focus has been/is amplitude... Are you happy with your overall EQ? If not what do you think could be better? Do you use a house curve and have you tried several to see what you like or dislike?

 

[Horst]

Hello,

I'm actually happy with the performance of my cinema - I can show you measurements - but I think I might be able to equalise my active speakers a little better.
I have not only corrected the amplitude, I have also time aligned the speakers and SUBs, because with time alignment the phase response is much better.
I also want to change my bass management a bit.
The 18" SUBs from 10 to 50Hz and my DBA from 50 to 120Hz.
As a test and comparison, I'll let the 18" SUBs alone play from 10 to 100Hz.

I simply think that if I set fewer filters, the freer the speaker plays.

I will post measurements in the near future.

I hope to bring some more dynamics into the Speakersystem.

 

[ddude003]

Hello Horst... Thank you for filling us in on your kit and room photos... Very nice setup you have... It seems like you have done quite a bit to get the most out of your kit and room... I will have to take a close look at your DCX2496... I wonder if you can load FIR filters into it... I noticed those measurement(s) seems taken at a pretty high db level... I am pretty sure that 75db is more or less the standard... Looking forward to seeing some of your measurements... .mdat format would be appreciated... By the way the Schroeder frequency of your room is 216 Hz...

Have you seen any of the Trinnov presentations on the Waveforming...

 

[Horst]

Hello,

no the DCX can't load FIR Filter only normal EQ ( IIR) and i don't see a Trinnov Presentation.
Ok the next measures i will do with 75db but isnt it better to do it louder for the Waterfall?

 

[ddude003]

I wonder if there is some way to get a convolution engine into your KODI server using something like VB-Audio Virtual Cable...

I wouldn't think the accuracy would go up using 85db or 90db... What is the loudest comfort level you listen at? Longer sweeps (buffer size) and higher capture sample rates 48kHz... Might be a better option...

There are some interesting hints in here once they get past the walking and talking...

 

[Horst]

Good morning

I don't think Kodi can do that.

when i watch movies it's about 110db/115db (C-weighet) (peaks)
I generally measure with longer sweeps because I don't sit in the cinema when I measure but control the measuring PC remotely. I haven't tested the 48kHz yet, I've always used 44kHz until now.

Yes, the Trinnov is a fine piece of equipment but for me it has to work manually with the DCX's :-)
Interesting video - i know Lars Mette

 

[Horst]

If you will EQ below 300Hz or so, i.e., the transition or Schroeder frequency, and EQing from a single point measurement then use no smoothing.

A different method would be the Moving Mic Method using REW’s RTA (Real Time Analyzer).

MMM mouving measurements method, which one is best with REW?

Hi, I saw this video: And I was surprised how fast they seem to move the mic. I am only an amateur here, but I followed the following method instead: https://mehlau.net/audio/room-correction-peq/index.html Measure speaker response Set RTA > Averages > forever Hold the mic at the main...

www.avnirvana.com

Thank you for the link!

 

[ddude003]

Ok... Virtual Audio Cable (VAC) supports many multi-channels...
As I understand it, Jriver allows multi-channel plugins that would give you options for additional EQ techniques, Convolution, Liquidsonics Cinematic Rooms, tone shaping, color boxes, etc... Not sure where you will pickup more dynamics from other than a few plugins or additional pro outboard hardware... I always thought horns and electrostatics sounded better with tubes in the signal chain... Revisit your absorbers and traps making sure they are not sucking too much life out of the room??? It is hard to squeeze those last few details out of these complex systems...

 

[Horst]

Hello,

I have here measurements of my left speaker at my seat. The dimensions of the room and my seat position can be seen in the REW file under P5 in Roomsim.
The measurements were all made with an acoustic time reference except for the woofer alone because the tweeter was muted and could not play a reference signal.
You can see the measurements before and after. I also measured the drivers alone (I have an active LS system).
Attached is the mdat file - what do you say?
The irregularities at 1.2 to 2.1 Khz of the tweeter I have not corrected. I measure them with each of the three front speakers.
Later on, I would also like to re-correct the other two speakers and talk about my bass system.
DBA 2x4 LAB12 from 35 to 100
My four 18" Dayton for the Infrabass 5 to 35Hz but that comes later.
I'll open a new thread.