Questions for those that have upgraded their Subwoofers.

welldun

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How big of a jump in power or extension did it take for you to notice a difference that made it worth it? Would a jump from 400Watts RMS to 550Watts RMS make a discernable difference in two similarly designed sealed subwoofers?
 

Sonnie

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I would not say that it would be that much more noticeable if they are a similar design. The peak power might be more to consider, as that will indicate better how much headroom it would have during the more demanding peaks of sound.
 

welldun

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I would not say that it would be that much more noticeable if they are a similar design. The peak power might be more to consider, as that will indicate better how much headroom it would have during the more demanding peaks of sound.
800watts peak vs 1500watts peak.
I'm going to look for more data on both to do a better comparison. In the end, I would want to see a big enough real world difference (beyond specs), to consider the change, since I would be looking at swapping 4 subs out.
 

Sonnie

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Are you maxed out with what you have now... not getting enough loudness?

Double the power is roughly 3dB increase in SPL... if the same driver is used.
 

Todd Anderson

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What size room do you have and what kind of subs are we talking about?
 

welldun

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What size room do you have and what kind of subs are we talking about?
@Sonnie, I'm not maxed out, just looking to see what a potential "upgrade" from my 4 SVS SB12-NSD to 4 SVS SB2000 Pro could yield. The DSP tech between the two has changed a bit I'm sure, but they are both essentially 12 inch drivers in a roughly 15 inch cube. Since I have 2 rows of seating, I wanted to use 4 subs to smooth out the response and get better seat to seat consistency.

@Todd Anderson, The room is 18'L x 13'W x 7' 4" H. It is the upstairs room in a Cape so the ceiling is somewhat barn shaped but the flat portion (where the height is 7' 4 inches) is around 4' wide and then the ceiling slopes down towards the walls. There is also a dormer window which adds some additional space. The current set up is 7.4.4. with the subs in each corner and time aligned with a MiniDSP 2x4HD. I'm probably looking for "a solution to a problem that doesn't exists!"... but that's what happens with tinkerers! :justdontknow: I figured I'd check to see what the next worthwhile upgrade to the subs would be should I decide to do it.
Here is a graph of the sub's FR. It's extends pretty good with the room gain. Red is the result using " as Flat as possible" option in MSO. The blue adds the Harman curve. The black is the raw response of the 4 subs without any EQ or alignment.
4 Subs Before and After.png
 

MediumRare

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How big of a jump in power or extension did it take for you to notice a difference that made it worth it? Would a jump from 400Watts RMS to 550Watts RMS make a discernable difference in two similarly designed sealed subwoofers?
Not even slightly. If the blue line is your actual room response you don’t want more than that. What smoothing is that graph? Maybe there is a mode you can hear but it’s not showing? How smooth is the sound when you do a sweep?
 
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Sonnie

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@Sonnie, I'm not maxed out, just looking to see what a potential "upgrade" from my 4 SVS SB12-NSD to 4 SVS SB2000 Pro could yield. The DSP tech between the two has changed a bit I'm sure, but they are both essentially 12 inch drivers in a roughly 15 inch cube. Since I have 2 rows of seating, I wanted to use 4 subs to smooth out the response and get better seat to seat consistency.

@Todd Anderson, The room is 18'L x 13'W x 7' 4" H. It is the upstairs room in a Cape so the ceiling is somewhat barn shaped but the flat portion (where the height is 7' 4 inches) is around 4' wide and then the ceiling slopes down towards the walls. There is also a dormer window which adds some additional space. The current set up is 7.4.4. with the subs in each corner and time aligned with a MiniDSP 2x4HD. I'm probably looking for "a solution to a problem that doesn't exists!"... but that's what happens with tinkerers! :justdontknow: I figured I'd check to see what the next worthwhile upgrade to the subs would be should I decide to do it.
Here is a graph of the sub's FR. It's extends pretty good with the room gain. Red is the result using " as Flat as possible" option in MSO. The blue adds the Harman curve. The black is the raw response of the 4 subs without any EQ or alignment.
View attachment 40221
Okay... so now you are speaking a different language. When you start talking about 4 of these subs vs just one... and going from the NSD to the Pro... you should notice a difference. If the subs are equidistant to the main listening position, you should notice an approximate 6dB in extra headroom, as you get a 3dB gain with each doubling of dynamic power. This makes the job of the subs more effortless. You also gain a deeper response, as the NSD is only rated to 23Hz, while the Pro is 19Hz. I suspect the distortion limits are improved with the newer Pro, and you get the DSP function to help with filtering and timing if needed. Upgraditis solved. :whistling:

SB12-NSD
40307


SB2000 Pro
40308
 

welldun

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Not even slightly. If the blue line is your actual room response you don’t want more than that. What smoothing is that graph? Maybe there is a mode you can hear but it’s not showing? How smooth is the sound when you do a sweep?
  • To clarify the graphs further, none of the lines have any smoothing. I have 2 rows of seating with a total of 5 seats. I wanted to get the bass in all of the seats to be as close to bass at the main listening position. For this I needed multiple subs. There are 4 subs in the room, each one in a corner.
  • The Black graph is the RAW response of the subs, meaning that they are not time aligned nor EQ'd, they are simply all playing at the same output level and the measurement was taken at the main listening position. The response at the other two seats in the fromnt is similar but much worse in the two seats in the second row.
  • I used a program called Multi Subwoofer Optimizer (MSO) which uses multiple measurements taken with REW to calculate the best EQ and Delay settings necessary to get the flattest response as well as the most consistency between all of the seats.
  • The red graph is the first result of MSO set to calculate the flattest response, other other 4 seats are pretty much the same +/- 3-4dB, so now all seats hear the same bass response.
  • The Blue graph is that same MSO result but now I had it add 10dB rise from 200Hz to 20Hz.
 

welldun

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Okay... so now you are speaking a different language. When you start talking about 4 of these subs vs just one... and going from the NSD to the Pro... you should notice a difference. If the subs are equidistant to the main listening position, you should notice an approximate 6dB in extra headroom, as you get a 3dB gain with each doubling of dynamic power. This makes the job of the subs more effortless. You also gain a deeper response, as the NSD is only rated to 23Hz, while the Pro is 19Hz. I suspect the distortion limits are improved with the newer Pro, and you get the DSP function to help with filtering and timing if needed. Upgraditis solved. :whistling:

SB12-NSD
View attachment 40307

SB2000 Pro
View attachment 40308
:greengrin: I bit the bullet! I'm now the proud owner of 4 SB-2000 Pro subs, which replaced my 4 SB12-NSD subs. Initial test in the room show the subs going down to about 9Hz with the room gain. now it's time to get to tweaking these to tie it all in.
 

Sonnie

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JTR Neosis 210RT
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JTR Neosis 210RT
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JTR Neosis 110HT-SL
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JTR Captivator 2400 x6
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VTI Amp Stands for the Monoblocks
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Congratulations.... well done! Can't wait to hear your thoughts after you've got them all setup and tuned and have time to listen to them.
 

Todd Anderson

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SVS Prime Elevation x4 (Top Middle, Top Rear)
Subwoofers
dual SVS SB16s + dual PSA XS30s
Other Speakers or Equipment
Behringer 1124p; Aura Bass Shaker Pros; SuperSub X
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JVC NX7
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Seymour Screen Excellence, Enlightor NEO AT Screen
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iFi Audio Zen Blue
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Nice buy! I think you made the right move. 4 subs = an incredible experience!
 
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