Listening fatigue: speaker change or new amp could be the solution ?

[remi89]

Hello,
I have a HT 7.1 based on GKF horn Speakers (a french maker) with moderate acoustic treatment and EQ done with REW. The room is around 18m2 but (no "back wall") open on the kitchen.
They sound great for home cinema but I found them too fatiguing in stéréo even at moderate volume.
As I don't want to change all my 7.1 system ideally, I tought about 2 solutions:
1-find stéréo speakers less fatiguing->what to avoid ? Horn is it a no-go ?
2-add a stéréo amp very smooth (like a tube one perhaps ?) to my system used only for the stereo to reduce the "bright" effect of the horn. Could it be enough ? Will it be a pain to connect/disconnect the system for each stéréo listening ?
My current amp/préamp are Emotiva's FYI.
Thanks for your suggestions.

 

[Grayson Dere]

Hi, Remi89!

If you have a hifi dealer in reasonable distance to you I highly recommend trying a different amp first. It sounds like you enjoy your speakers but want a more pleasing experience with 2-channel material. I've had pretty good experience with taming fatiguing sound in my own system by just changing amps (I went from a class-D type amp to a Croft Acoustics class-AB amp, both connected to an iFi iTube pre amp). The synergy between your speakers and amplifier choice will greatly influence the sound quality. Yes, a pre-amp will also make a difference but I've only owned one pre-amp so I don't know how much of an impact that would make.

Keep us all updated on your journey!

 

[NBPK402]

Do you run a DSP like Dirac...if so you can modify your tune and save 1 for movies and another for stereo. I have done this in the past and it solved the problem for me. Another thing you could try is maybe movie your acoustic treatments or speakers and see it that helps. I currently run a stereo preamp and a HT AVP. I run the preouts for the left and right to my Athena preamp (which is a passive/ active pre due to the active is solenoids for switching and volume and are not in the signalmpath) in my setup I matched the levels on the AVP and have the Athena level maxed. Works good, but would work better with a stereo preamp with HT bypass. Grayson gave another great suggestion too. I would try what is free first before buying new equipment, and if you buy a new amp or preamp...try and get a home audition to see if it is the direction you want. I used to have a Classe Audio DR 6 preamp and a pair of DR10 power amps and they had a nice warm sound...almost like a hybrid tube amp. I think if you shop around you could get a nice classic amp that would warm up the sound a bit.

When we were in Amsterdam...I went to a place that had Avante Garde horns and I was very impressed with the sound. The dealer told me he makes a tube amp for his customers...if you go the amp route...I would give him a call and see about the amp he makes.
I think this is the Avante Garde Dealer that I went to. https://g.co/kgs/KBDxRm

 

[Grayson Dere]

Do you run a DSP like Dirac...if so you can modify your tune and save 1 for movies and another for stereo. I have done this in the past and it solved the problem for me. Another thing you could try is maybe movie your acoustic treatments or speakers and see it that helps. I currently run a stereo preamp and a HT AVP. I run the preouts for the left and right to my Athena preamp (which is a passive/ active pre due to the active is solenoids for switching and volume and are not in the signalmpath) in my setup I matched the levels on the AVP and have the Athena level maxed. Works good, but would work better with a stereo preamp with HT bypass. Grayson gave another great suggestion too. I would try what is free first before buying new equipment, and if you buy a new amp or preamp...try and get a home audition to see if it is the direction you want. I used to have a Classe Audio DR 6 preamp and a pair of DR10 power amps and they had a nice warm sound...almost like a hybrid tube amp. I think if you shop around you could get a nice classic amp that would warm up the sound a bit.

When we were in Amsterdam...I went to a place that had Avante Garde horns and I was very impressed with the sound. The dealer told me he makes a tube amp for his customers...if you go the amp route...I would give him a call and see about the amp he makes.
I think this is the Avante Garde Dealer that I went to. https://g.co/kgs/KBDxRm

That Avante Garde dealer's shop looks incredible! It's hifi heaven for sure

 

[NBPK402]

That Avante Garde dealer's shop looks incredible! It's hifi heaven for sure

It was a small place...about the size Keith Yates Audio used to be when he was in downtown Sacramento in the 80s.Both places had setup in real rooms with furniture.

 

[NBPK402]

Or it might have been this one...it was in 2018 both links are for Avantegarde Dealers in the area.

AudioLife: High-End Audio & the search for Magic Sound

Audio-Life is een unieke High-End Audio winkel gericht op de zoektocht naar magisch geluid.

audio-life.nl

 

[ddude003]

Hi @remi89,

Another way to go is if you use a computer as your source for your stereo is to add additional EQ and/or color with a plugin like the Pulsar Audio Massive, which is an emulation of the Manley Massive Passive EQ, to your player SW... This legendary parallel EQ includes tube and transformer color/saturation... In my system I use the Hang Loose convolver for basic room EQ then layer the Pulsar Massive for additional EQ and color when in stereo mode...

You might also try rolling off some highs with your own house curve...

As others have suggested a tube preamp or tube buffer may help...

 

[BenToronto]

All good amps since 1985 sound the same, assuming no odd load (such as electrostatic speakers).

You can't be serious about tuning your gear unless you run REW or similar test software, otherwise just guessing. For example, you can do frequency response and distortion in just one minute (once you get the hang of running the software).

I have elsewhere published tests showing my old MacBook built-in mic works pretty well in comparison to my fancy calibrated condenser mic - believe it or not - except for bass frequency response. That means your total cost is zero, unless you are decent enough to kick in towards the REW honourware, as I do almost every year.

 

[Sonnie]

Some horn speakers can be harsh and create fatigue... and are more difficult to tame without ruining the entire response of the upper range to the point it may no longer sound good. I can't remember the speakers we had in the room at one time, but I'm pretty sure they were horns and difficult to tame. IIRC... when we got the harshness gone, the imaging and soundstage were not as good. I suppose there is the right mix of frequency response smoothness with speaker location/toe-in that can affect how fatiguing a speaker might be.

It's been a while since I did anything with Audyssey, so not sure how flexible it is, but I know Dirac is extremely flexible. When we have speaker evaluations, Dirac almost puts the speakers on an even playing field as far as fatigue because we have an agreed-upon smooth target response that is comfortable for all of us. Imaging, soundstage, and depth acuity can differ for each speaker, but frequency response or a particular frequency area being bright or harsh is generally attributed to listening fatigue. Perhaps you can find a smoother target curve that is not as harsh to your ears ... and you may very well be able to do that with the AVR you have. If not, then I would look at another AVR that has Dirac. Otherwise, look at other speakers and maybe get away from horns. I think it will be one of those options or both. I don't think changing your Emotiva amp for any other amp will solve your listening fatigue, as all good amps should have relatively flat frequency response within the range that generally causes listening fatigue, and they shouldn't color the sound.

 

[r042wal]

Sorry I could not read the entire thread.

I find I get complacent with with my audio system. It meets all my needs. In my opinion, it sounds fantastic to me. However, I know better than to chase the tail of the dragon. I refuse to buy hi-end interconnects, lift my cables off the floor, or buy ridiculously priced power conditioners just to chase something at the end of the chain I will never find. I'm a bit obsessive, but over the years I know where to draw the line.

 

[Grayson Dere]

All good amps since 1985 sound the same, assuming no odd load (such as electrostatic speakers).

You can't be serious about tuning your gear unless you run REW or similar test software, otherwise just guessing. For example, you can do frequency response and distortion in just one minute (once you get the hang of running the software).

I have elsewhere published tests showing my old MacBook built-in mic works pretty well in comparison to my fancy calibrated condenser mic - believe it or not - except for bass frequency response. That means your total cost is zero, unless you are decent enough to kick in towards the REW honourware, as I do almost every year.

That's really cool knowing the MacBook mic works so well. I've never even once thought about trying to use mine

 

[AudiocRaver]

Horns can be a problem, but the RIGHT horn can be a great solution. The latest designs by Seaton Sound (Mark Seaton) and JTR (Jeff P.) are amazing!

 

[Todd Anderson]

I don't think you need to change out your entire 7.1 system... but you might want to consider trying a new LCR array of speakers. AMT drivers might be just the ticket for you. They strike a great balance of laid back for music and spicey for home theater!

I know the sensation you're describing, tho. I've heard quite a few systems that sound exponentially better when used as home theater versus 2-channel stereo.

 

[ddude003]

The thing we used to do, way back when, old skool way, is to bi-amp, using a tube amp for the horns and an ss class a or ab to drive the bins... Seems like you have lots of options...

 

[DanDan]

Acoustic Treatment can remove early reflections. This increases clarity dramatically by losing all those HF cancelling and Comb Filtering ERs. Such a Direct Field can be a bit too much. Soften to Bruel and Kjaer or Harman Curves using Dirac Live or any other Eq/Speaker PreConditioner.

 

[Todd Anderson]

@DanDan, great points!