LCR Upgrade Based on In-Room Response Measures

Sittler27

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I’m narrowing down my list of speakers for a LCR upgrade and have been doing an immense amount of reading and research of late.
I’ve posted some similar threads to this over last few months, but thought I’d post this one final thread that focuses on some key technical attributes of my current setup and room acoustics in an attempt to get garner intuitive feedback a final (likely blind/deaf!) buying decision.

Due to COVID, I really haven’t gone out to sit and listen to speakers at dealers.

I also live in Canada, so some of the selections I’ve narrowed down to aren’t even available here for demo.
I am also considering eating shipping fees just to audition in my room as well.

In the meantime, I rely on the excellent feedback from members of this forum and others, so please be generous with your expertise and recommendations.

My uses:
I’m about 70% HT and 30% music. This being a time spent estimation, I will add that I REALLY love music and consider myself to be at least a little bit of an audiophile.
The loudest I usually listen to is about 70-80 avg. SPL with 95-105 peaks and often it is a little bit less than that.

Existing system sound and what I’m looking for in an upgrade:
By REW frequency response measurements, my mids are clearly recessed in my room (see my averaged (across 3 listening positions) frequency response charts below).
This is the BEST response I could achieve in my room after a full audio calibration with REW, miniDSP, xover, sub distance, phase adjustments, etc. + acoustic panel room treatments.
I don’t use any RC yet (ARC Genesis beta) because it is in beta and doesn’t really do any smoothing at all (doesn’t help my recessed mids).
I use a miniDSP 2x4 HD and have go great results <100Hz with that.

By ear, I’d describe my sound as too “smooth” or maybe warm is a better term? Almost like it needs to be crisper and even more detailed or sharper.
I had in the past described it as bright but that was not accurate at all.
It’s almost like I feel I could lift a veil from the sound with an LCR upgrade. Having said this, I know it sounds way better than most other setups already.
I always feel like in HT I need to turn up the volume for dialog scenes (especially ones in noisy on-screen environments) but then when music on the scene starts (especialy with bass) it becomes too loud.
This is even though I have a pretty good Harman curve with 100Hz only about 8-10dB below 30Hz (see below).

Other than what is described above, I’d like to improve sound in these regards for both HT AND music playback.

It needs to be an assured WOW upgrade experience.

My current 5.2.4 system:
Paradigm Studio 60 v4
Paradigm Studio CC690 v5
Paradigm CI Elite E80-R (mid heights)
Paradigm CI Elite E80-A (rear heights)
Paradigm CI Elite E80-IW (surrounds)
2x PSA TV2112 subs
Anthem AVM 70
Monolith 9x amp

Room Details:
~2,600^3 HT area at one end of a 15,000+^3 open concept games room basement
I have no rear wall behind my MLP (well, it’s actually about 45’ behind me)
As mentioned, I’ve recently installed some really thick GIK bass trap acoustic panels on all first reflection points.
This helped with ETC graph reflections but didn’t improve the in-room response too much as measured.

LCR Upgrade Path Options:
My budget is about $16K CDN (this is about $11K USD). This includes taxes, shipping, import charges, etc.
One of the aspects ruling my option decisions is that I need an LCR that has a center that would at the minimum be a lateral step from my excellent CC690 v5. This is very difficult to assess as not many have experience comparing the CC690 to other center channels.
My Paradigm CI Elite (Prestige series) height/surrounds will remain.
I am limited to 13” height for my center speaker (due to space under my projection screen)

Through my research I’ve narrowed my LCR upgrade list down to the following, but am completely open to suggestions on other speakers as well:

JTR Noesis 210RT + 210RM
-wow upgrade for sure, but – putting behind acoustic transparent screen is not an option for me – having a hard time with this one due to WAF

Revel F226Be + C426Be
-wow upgrade for sure, but at top end of my budget and may be overpriced due to being in Canada for what I get

JBL HDI 3800 + 4500 center
-not sure how this would compare to the JTR’s above, but they certainly look nicer

Ascend Sierra Towers with RAAL + Horizon center
-I think the Horizon center may be a step back in quality from my CC690

Other speakers I considered but struck off the list (but not to say I couldn't be compelled to consider them again):
KEF R11 + R2C
-R2C center didn’t seem to be a sure thing to beat my CC690

Revel F208 + C208
-I didn't think the C208 center would not be a step back in performance from my CC690

B&W 702 S2
-weaker center, others have said mainly paying for pretty cabinets

Focal Aria 948/936
-weaker center

Monitor Audio Gold 200/300 + Gold C250 or Platinum PLC150
-not enough feedback on how these would compare to my existing system

In-Room Frequency Response Measures (sub only + avg for Center, Left and Right each includes subs):
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Drapes open to show how big the open basement is behind there.
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And here are some pics since my GIK acoustic panel installation:
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JStewart

Senior AV Addict
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Dec 5, 2017
Messages
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Location
Central FL
This is an easy one... JTR and enforce the rule posted above your fireplace :)

By ear, I’d describe my sound as too “smooth” or maybe warm is a better term? Almost like it needs to be crisper and even more detailed or sharper.
I had in the past described it as bright but that was not accurate at all.
It’s almost like I feel I could lift a veil from the sound with an LCR upgrade. Having said this, I know it sounds way better than most other setups already.
I always feel like in HT I need to turn up the volume for dialog scenes (especially ones in noisy on-screen environments) but then when music on the scene starts (especialy with bass) it becomes too loud.

Do you have the same observations running LCR full range? (Not advocating his as a solution, just wondering if sub level or some other aspect of the eq or blending is the cause.)

Have you tried listening with the coffee table out of the way?
 

natty

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Joined
Jan 21, 2019
Messages
83
Trying to solve a suspected room problem by buying speakers is like trying to bake a pizza by pouring a glass of beer: you might get lucky and have a good time but it’s a roll of the dice!

Me, before dropping that much coin on new speakers that may or may not be a step up, I’d spend a several hundred bucks and have a calibrator come and give my audio setup a once over. You have gear of a high quality. Maybe it can’t get you what you want but I’d be surprised.

Since you are capable with REW you could probably do it over FaceTime with someone far away but well regarded like Anthony Grimani’s team or Nyall at Acoustic Frontiers, letting them see the room, measurements and setup details remotely.

(FYI I have no idea what they would charge. I’ve used Accucal before but he no longer travels and I’m not sure about his remote service offerings.)
 
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