Klipsch Jubilees & Sub

vego99

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Hi Everyone.

I've been lurking on here for a while and wanted some guidance on how I should move forwarded with Audiolense DSP with my Klipsch Jubilees and Subwoofer.

Off the bat, I know I need to get a Lynx Hilo ( USB or Thunderbolt?). What else will I need to move forward?

I'm pretty competent with setting my Xilica DSP with the proper PEQ's with REW but this is a new ball game for me.

Thinking I want to utilize both HQPlayer and Roon so I can utilize Tidal and Qobuz and vinyl.

In the past I wanted to be Mac OS based but open to moving to PC based if it makes things easier.

Looking forward to the responses and assistance!
 

Mitchco

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Oct 1, 2017
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Hi @vego99 here is a thread that you may have seen before, but has some of the answers you are looking for:
 

vego99

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@Mitchco ,

Thank you for responding.

I'm familiar with this thread and have spoken to Rob briefly about this but I am still a little confused about the making the switch and how to implement everything.

I'm a pretty smart guy when it comes to this stuff and have done a pretty good job of learning REW and dialing things in with my current setup but this whole concept of moving to full computer based DSP has me spinning.

I already have a dedicated server running Roon which I guess i could drop Audiolense files into for the convolution... but I think i'm confused about the whole measurement thing and loopback function.

Do i build a second dedicated PC to run Audiolense / HQplayer/ Jriver? If purchasing a quality measurement mic like a earthworks M23r, is a separate mic preamp needed, or will the Hilo be able to accept that mic for measurement?

Any help guidance would be great.

Thanks again for responding.
 

Mitchco

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@Mitchco

Do i build a second dedicated PC to run Audiolense / HQplayer/ Jriver? If purchasing a quality measurement mic like a earthworks M23r, is a separate mic preamp needed, or will the Hilo be able to accept that mic for measurement?

Thanks again for responding.
Thanks for purchasing my book. No, you do not require a 2nd computer. Yes, you need a separate mic preamp as most ADC's including the Hilo is expecting line level signals.

Here are a couple of Audiolense articles to get you started here and here. I also have a video walk through of using Audiolense here.

As you may know from Rob, I offer a DSP calibration service that walks you though the end to end process as there is a lot to consider. The service also comes with one or more video tutorials on getting you up to speed as quickly as possible. Totally cool if you aren't interested. Hopefully others will chime in and assist.

Good luck!
 

kevinzoe

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Jun 10, 2022
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My AV System  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
PrimaLuna DiaLogue Premium preamp
Main Amp
PS Audio BHK Signature 250 stereo amp
Additional Amp
Valve Amplification Company 30/30 Renaissance
Computer Audio
JRiver
DAC
exaSound e48 (8 channels)
Front Speakers
Acoustic Zen Crescendos
Subwoofers
Pair of Rythmik F15's
Other Equipment
Cables by: TEO Audio, Cardas and AudioSensibility
Vego39

I was in your shoes not too long ago and have been enjoying playing with the Audiolense XO version. I hired Mitch to educate me on it and provide a convolution file, but I often change things around (speaker and chair locations, acoustic treatment location) so "teaching me how to fish" was more valuable than "giving me a fish" so to speak. Mitch is excellent at sharing his knowledge and with customer service - highly recommended! Bernt is very responsive to my odd email question and is another great resource.



Puzzle Parts:

> I'm running Windows on a laptop that contains JRiver and the AL XO software.

> a USB cord connects the laptop with a multi-channel DAC. I highly recommend looking at the 8 channel DAC or DAC+Streamer from exaSound which is Stereophile A+ rated. Fabulous sound, reliable, and excellent customer service.

> I'm using the Dayton Audio UMM-6 which is a USB based mic that plugs into your laptop's secondary USB drive. No mic preamp is needed. But you'll likely need a mic stand that a local music store can provide.

> no loopback is needed as the signal goes to the DAC and stereo, gets fed into the mic and back into the AL XO software. When using AL for measurements, JRiver software is closed/not running. After the convolution file is created in AL I close it down and open JRiver to point to the file in order to "use it."

Helpful Hints:

> try setting the digital crossovers at or near your physical crossovers within the speakers. If you plan to bypass the speaker's passive crossovers, then I'd still suggest setting the digital XO points at the same values as the passive plus or minus a few hertz. The amazing thing about AL XO is that you only need one very good/reliable measurement to then play "What if?" scenario modeling for crossover frequency and slope settings to see the predicted result that is very accurate in reality.

> when biamping (e.g. stereo amp for your mains and separate sub amp), it's important to balance their respective volume levels as shown on the freq response chart of AL. If the sub's volume is too high then that pushes the main speaker's dB levels down like a see-saw, and vice-versa. The reason this is important is to minimize the AL correction filter loss in volume that is inevitable in order to avoid digital noise/distortion when AL boosts frequencies that need it. So, you will need to turn up your overall volume level a bit when running the convolution file.

> the tonal/timbre balance may be the trickiest part and is directly related to your drawn target curve. Do you want it flat or tipped up below 100Hz or below 300Hz? Mitch can recommend several industry standard ones to try out, but in the end the power of AL XO lets you tweak it to your ear's content.

Hope this helps somewhat . . .
 

menlobob

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Sep 20, 2019
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Much like JBL M2s, Jubillees are two way main speakers that require biamplification and active crossovers to work. Currently the OP has a 4x8 Xilica DSP with rudimentary IIR filters designed by Klipsch for cinema theater installations. I’ve heard these in a normal room with configuration as the results are impressive. But moving to custom filters with AL Xover should be a significant step forward.

I know the OP from Klipsch circles and have spent some time working through what he wants to accomplish.

1. 2 way crossovers between the K402 horns (controlled dispersion down to about 400hz) and Jube horn bass bins (F0 down to about 40hz).
2. Integration of a single, massive 2x12 horn loaded sub to pick up below the bass bins.
3. Roon as the primary digital source.
4. At least one stereo analog input for vinyl.

There are many audio interfaces/computer combinations that will solve these four requirements. Where things get complicated is integration as a component of a stereo system. What convolver to run? How to implement system volume control? Digital volume before or after convolution? How to implement source selection? All of these have solutions with varying levels of complexity of setup and operation.

I have a similar setup with the much smaller Klipsch K510 horns and diy bass bins. I have a custom Mac Reaper setup that provides source selection, convolution, and post convolution volume control into a Motu AVB with frontend control through Roon plugins. But I’m a software eng by trade and the complexity here is high. In fact the current setup hasn’t been working for a few months due to lack of attention on my part.

So the people here that use AL in a primarily home stereo setup, how do you handle volume control? Multiple source selection? These are basic features in analog gear, yet largely an unsolved problem with computer based DSP for system integration.
 

kevinzoe

New Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2022
Messages
14
My AV System  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
PrimaLuna DiaLogue Premium preamp
Main Amp
PS Audio BHK Signature 250 stereo amp
Additional Amp
Valve Amplification Company 30/30 Renaissance
Computer Audio
JRiver
DAC
exaSound e48 (8 channels)
Front Speakers
Acoustic Zen Crescendos
Subwoofers
Pair of Rythmik F15's
Other Equipment
Cables by: TEO Audio, Cardas and AudioSensibility
Hi menlobob,
Regarding your question about how to handle volume control, I use JRemote on my iPhone to select songs and control the overall master volume level (I can also do it within JRiver on my laptop that JRemote communicates with). This way the volume info is being sent to the DAC+stereo as far upstream as possible. Using an 8 channel DAC means I would need an 8 channel preamp if I wished to place the master volume control AFTER the DAC, which I don't own. Do you think master volume control placement - before or after the DAC - makes an audible difference?

I only use digitally ripped CD's and hi-rez files within JRiver as my sole source, oh and the not so great streaming within JRiver . . .
 

vego99

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Jul 8, 2018
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I want to thank everyone who has replied to this thread!

As @menlobob has mentioned we are in similar Klipsch circles and we have recently been working together towards getting a Mac OS based system started.

Since I've been so used to the way I process DSP now, some additional help with understanding the workflow was needed.

Gear has been procured and working on getting things setup and operational for the conversion to AL and DSP processing.

Looking forward to seeing how things end up!

Erik
 

vego99

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Jul 8, 2018
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Just wanted to give an update on this project.

Windows running on my Mac both via Parallels and a Boot Camp partition. I've got to run AL in both environments because in parallels I can't run measurement sweeps. Something with the audio driver. So I'm going to use the bootcamp windows environment to run the measurements and then process the filters in the parallels environment so I can easily swap between windows and Mac OS.

Routing of the audio interface also was somewhat of a challenge. I've had experience using traditional mixers in the past, however moving to a fully digital mixer was something very new to me. After some trial and error I was able to get things routed correctly.

I'm actually planning on creating multiple preset routings so I can easily scroll through the presets for Roon, CD and Vinyl playback.

This weekend I actually hooked things up to my main system for testing. One of the biggest things I've noticed is how quite the Motu interface is compared to the Xilica unit I am using. Idle noise is absolutely silent with the Motu, with the Xilica you can hear hiss from my listening chair and that's even with the tweeter output padded by -3db.

I forgot my download my mic calibration file from Earthworks it's been requested but don't think I'll be seeing it until Monday.

This didn't stop me from trying to take test measurements as is. I was able to make successful audible sweeps but hit another road block with some sort of IR extraction error. hoping to figure what that is so I can move forward again.
 
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