Klipsch Heresy IV (Objective) Speaker Review

[JStewart]

You don't know? It's called "sales"! Every company wants to produce what people buy. If perfect measurements mean imperfect sales it gets canned, with prejudice. Those guys have survived and thrived because they run a great "business". The most perfect speaker can sometimes sell very little (note, check out active speakers).

Thanks. I guess I just didn’t figure the market for that kind of, well, distortion really, to be that large. I could kind of get it if they were mostly sold on a showroom floor where first impression might be “detailed”.

To each his own. If that’s what someone likes they should go for it! And with Erin’s info they will know what it is they are liking.

I’m with you on active speakers. Manufacturers just need work on getting some of the reported levels of hiss down.

 

[JStewart]

Interesting. I looked at that review for the Ultra2s and came away with a different opinion.
The review is pretty glowing, but I start to get skeptical when smoothing for the spl charts is not stated. I could have missed it. Also the y axis scale from 10 to 130dB is going to make the response look flatter than a scale with less range. And the 10 dB rise from 10 to 20kHz doesn’t jive with “neutral response”.

As you pointed out, Klipsch is successful and other companies would no doubt be envious of their success. They must obviously be doing a lot of things right including making their customers happy.
Despite this I can’t concede that accuracy is not the best target for reproduction though. I can’t picture anyone ever considering a dac or amp that had a response like that. So why would it be ok for a speaker?

Just my .02 as they say.

 

[Sonnie]

I think the setup and room will make a huge difference in what we hear subjectively, although there may be some speakers that measure horribly that might not be all that bad to some people. Erin is only referring to the Heresy at this particular time, so we really can't compare the fact that other Klipsch speakers sound good to others will equal all Klipsch speakers sounding good to those same people.

We will all have opinions, and until we listen with our own ears in our own room, we really can't be subjective in our assessment of a speaker. I know I've had bias based on what I've read about speakers, anticipating they would either sound great or not sound that good, and my bias was wrong.

 

[Erin]

And with Erin’s info they will know what it is they are liking.

Exactly. Even if they think my subjective assessment is wrong, they can at least look at the data and draw their own conclusions.

But, I have observed that the majority of pushback I get from people on this particular review is all from guys who had them 30+ years ago and are nostalgic for them. And they also are more anti-science relative to other facets of the audio community. I'd say that 90% of the dissenting views come from this demographic.

 

[Erin]

Those guys at Klipsch have a good customer

I think the keyword is "loyal" customer base. Now, I don't have actual data for this but based on the internet guys who have said some things they wouldn't dare say to my face, the guys are loyal because they are nostalgic for that sound... they heard it back in the day when high SPL recreating a rock show was *the* dream system. There wasn't much linearity in speakers... the science and understanding of preference wasn't around then; certainly not for public consumption. So, they are fond of their first systems as 20-somethings and now that they have gotten older they have carried that with them. Klipsch continues to make the same product just in a different presentation and charge their loyal customers $3k/pair for them.

That's fine. I just wish they'd recognize it instead of being so intentionally ignorant about the literal science of sound. You mention frequency response and they get irate. I think the old adage "people fear what they don't understand" may apply.

 

[Erin]

Andrew Robinson

 

[Erin]

I know I've had bias based on what I've read about speakers, anticipating they would either sound great or not sound that good, and my bias was wrong.

I genuinely go in to every review hoping it does well. Why? Because, frankly, it means less crap I have to put up with in the end. It means I didn't spend a lot of time on something that sucks. And, hey, if it does well and I feel confident in recommending it based on my subjective analysis and objective data then I can probably make a little bit of money off affiliate links. The same as all these other "reviewers" do. Think about it... at 5% commission on $3k/pair speakers, I would pocket $150 for every pair sold. I'd probably be sitting on a nice little chunk of change right now if my review had been glowing like others'. Aside from that, let's say my review doesn't bode well for a product. That means potential loss in sales. That means, in an extreme case, that could cost them enough money where someone may not be employed. While I doubt I will ever have that kind of influence, it's something that isn't lost on me and weighs on me in my reviews. That is why I'm not "going in" like I might if I were talking to a friend. I try to remain as neutral as I can be but I will be honest ... maybe just politely honest.

 

[Sonnie]

Exactly. Even if they think my subjective assessment is wrong, they can at least look at the data and draw their own conclusions.

But, I have observed that the majority of pushback I get from people on this particular review is all from guys who had them 30+ years ago and are nostalgic for them. And they also are more anti-science relative to other facets of the audio community. I'd say that 90% of the dissenting views come from this demographic.

That's makes a lot of sense really... very believable and understandable.

I genuinely go in to every review hoping it does well. Why? Because, frankly, it means less crap I have to put up with in the end. It means I didn't spend a lot of time on something that sucks. And, hey, if it does well and I feel confident in recommending it based on my subjective analysis and objective data then I can probably make a little bit of money off affiliate links. The same as all these other "reviewers" do. Think about it... at 5% commission on $3k/pair speakers, I would pocket $150 for every pair sold. I'd probably be sitting on a nice little chunk of change right now if my review had been glowing like others'. Aside from that, let's say my review doesn't bode well for a product. That means potential loss in sales. That means, in an extreme case, that could cost them enough money where someone may not be employed. While I doubt I will ever have that kind of influence, it's something that isn't lost on me and weighs on me in my reviews. That is why I'm not "going in" like I might if I were talking to a friend. I try to remain as neutral as I can be but I will be honest ... maybe just politely honest.

The review I posted that was much less than favorable was for one of our sponsors paying us $2,700 annually at HTS. And they paid the next billing, although they did not like my review. Of course it was only one of their products, and they knew they had issues with it. Brute honesty is the only way to do it. Perhaps a lot of the high-end reviewers don't really review a lot of questionable products, or perhaps if something is really bad, just skip it. It has to be difficult for them to write anything that is going to cause their advertisers to be too unhappy. I do believe a few of those guys are very honest guys though. I've noted some comments in their reviews that make be believe so, however, there are some that are only doing it to get product and/or advertising money.

 

[Erin]

Now this is where I have a problem is when you start claiming some unknown poster is ignorant and being all about science. Let's keep this thread relevant to the topic at hand and not drag up some personal beef about what someone may or may not understand. If you want to go there get your asbestos suit but I prefer to discuss products, not posts and memebrs.

I am talking about a contingency of guys who have literally said in various posts that “graphs don’t tell you anything” and they have said this in reply to my review. And they have said they love the sound now and did back in the 70’s. I’m not making anything up. These are recent discussions/debates I’ve been in. As of tonight, actually. They aren’t unknown. They’re just not on this forum.

 

[Erin]

Erin, please go take it up with the "contingency" not a witchdoctor, ok?

Something got lost in translation. I am not taking anything up with you. I took your phrase of “good customers” and said “loyal customers”. Because they are that. They are loyal to the brand they love and have loved.

 

[Erin]

Erin, I don't think you have the type of pull that will dramatically effect Klipsch's sales numbers. What you "lose" isn't affiliate commissions, its your credibility and reputation. If you want to see model posts read Todd's. That guy has to put up with the differing opinions of his members and attract sponsors at the same time. He manages to do it, so can anyone.

I agree. I literally said I don’t think I will ever have that kind of pull.

As far as losing credibility, that’s a given. But only if you start with it. Many reviewers are making paid advertisements (not me guessing; it’s stated in their ads because the FTC mandates it). So, IMO, they don’t have much credibility to start with in regards to providing a truthful or inciteful, unbiased review. I don’t worry about losing credibility because I provide data to keep me accountable. To me, that’s what keeps me honest even if I don’t realize I am being biased because I may like a brand more than normal.

 

[Erin]

Well we both seem to be JBL fan boys as well as customers of Sound United (Denon and Marantz), so I guess we are both "loyal" customers of Harman and Sound United right?

I am not a fanboy. I appreciate a good product. To me there is a difference. Fanboys, I equate with apologists. JBL happens to be one who makes a good product through engineering. But even I have commented on ASR that their flagship F328Be is bested in terms of value by the F226Be.