Headphone Search - Six Years Later

[Sonnie Parker]

Back in 2011 I did somewhat of a limited search for headphones to replace our completely worn out fifty-eleven year old AKG-K240's. I was trying to stay under $200, although I think I may have tried a couple of sets at a slightly higher price.

All were over the ear... or intended to be anyway. Here are the ones I trialed:

Beyerdynamic DT880 Premium 250ohm
Sennheiser HD-598 (I think I had another mode too, but can't remember the model number - they were more expensive)
Audio Technica ATH-M50s
Audio Technica ATH-A900
AKG-K240 MKII
... and not sure why, but I did try the MEElectronics A151-BK Balanced Armature In-Ear

There may have been another pair or two, but I am drawing a blank on which ones... thinking a pair of Sony and I may have tried another pair of Sennheisers too.

I also purchased the FiiO E10 USB DAC Headphone Amp, which I still have but rarely use.

The A900's stayed with me because they sounded good and were very comfortable. However, I will admit, they don't have much of a sound stage nor do they image very well. I don't think I was really striving for that back then, or perhaps was not expecting much from sub $200 headphones. I don't know. I still like the A900's, but I know they are far from the super nice headphones out there.

I decided I would try again and see if I could find some that would image better and have a better sound stage. Closed back are going to be preferable because I listen a lot while in the room with my wife, and the one time I tried the semi-open backs (DT-880's), she was not fond of them, although I remember them perhaps being a little better sounding than the A900's.

Main criteria... closed back and over the ear, must be comfortable and not press too hard, which was a major issue with the Sennheisers that I trialed last time. Improved sound stage and imaging over the A900's. Trying to keep price at around $300 or less if possible, but might step up a little more if they are worth it.

So here's my line up thus far:

Audio-Technica ATH-MSR7BK Sonic Pro
Audio-Technica ATH-WS1100iS Solid Bass
V-MODA Crossfade M-100 (with XL Memory Cushions)
AKG K 553 Pro
AKG K550
Sony MDR-1A
Monoprice Monolith M560 Planar
Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro - 80 Ohm
And I really want to try the OPPO PM-3's ... which will be the most expensive of the sets in this list, so I may get the best of these and then try the OPPO's last.

There is nothing fancy about this trial of headphones... I am playing samples of my favorite music and using the process of elimination.

 

[Sonnie Parker]

Round 1:

Audio-Technica ATH-MSR7BK Sonic Pro
Audio-Technica ATH-WS1100iS Solid Bass
V-MODA Crossfade M-100 (with XL Memory Cushions)
AKG K 553 Pro



The ATH-WS1100iS Solid Bass phones are a little softer than the A900's and definitely have better low end. Not overwhelming by any means. They are lighter and smaller, but they do not improve on the imaging or sound stage. I would choose these over the A900's. The ear cup is larger and deeper... and clears all of my ear. I like this fit.

The ATH-MSR7BK seem to have a more refined deep bass, and they sound slightly more detailed. However, the pads are smaller than the 1100iS and do not fit around my ear as comfortable, nor are they as soft as the 1100iS. If these had the 1100 ear cup, I would probably choose these over the 1100. Still no improvement on sound stage and imaging.



The K553's are super soft... and are about the same size as the A900's. I am now noticing how the A900's and these are both pressing against my ear. It's not bad, but my ear is bottoming out, if you will... whereas the 1100 completely clears my ear. The K553's have excellent detail, probably a little better than either of the 3 Audio Technica's, and they do improve slightly on the sound stage and imaging... very slight improvement though.

At this point, I don't know that I would necessarily spend any money on these to replace the A900's. Each are somewhat better in some way or another, but neither are accomplishing my goal of better sound stage and imaging.

The V-MODA M-100's sound nice as well, but I don't have the XL cushions yet, so I don't want to draw any conclusions, as the larger cushions might change the sound. Thus far, good bass, good detail, but I couldn't wear them because they are way too small for my ear, smaller than the MSR7BK's. Hopefully the larger cushions will help, although I was not hearing any better sound stage and imaging.

Thus far, I am beginning to wonder if it is even possible to get any sort of respectable sound stage with relatively inexpensive closed back headphones. It just doesn't seem like it's really pulling together for me... the sound is still to much to the side of me and on top of me... it seems hard to get it centered and out in front of me to any extent. Eyes closed.... I can somewhat force it forward, but it not far at all... like right at my eyeballs and it collapses big time when I open my eyes.

I think I am chasing something that is near impossible to achieve short of the Smyth-Research Realiser at a couple grand.

 

[1_sufferin_mind]

Interesting comparison, Sonnie! There's nothing inherently wrong with the 'phones you chose, they merely fall prey to the Headphone Imaging Paradox. Sound stage and imaging performance is missing from most phones, because there's no signal being "leaked" between both ears. With regular speakers, some of the signal from the left speaker is heard by the right ear and vice versa. Since that's not the case with 'phones, some headphone amps include a cross-fade switch that electronically "leaks" some of the sound between channels. So you're not chasing the impossible dream, you just need a synergistic combination of headphone and amp. What are you listening through now?

If you're willing to consider other 'phones, some AKG models are designed with their drivers angled relative to the eardrum, mimicking speaker toe-in. That's been shown to help SS&I, but still doesn't float some people's boat and I don't think the tech can be had for under $500. Out of your budget. But the Sennheiser HD598 sport velour earpads for all-day comfort and polished burl wood for only around $220. Be aware, though, that the HD598 has been almost unanimously reviewed as bright for some tastes. Grado SR225e or SR325e models may be worth a listen. They're over-ear types, but I can't vouch for their comfort. Lower tier Grado's are notorious for the lack of it.

 

[Sonnie Parker]

You are sooooo right... I am chasing something that really can't be had without an expensive setup, or something like the Realizer.

I did read where some guys were using the TB Isone plugin with DAW (or maybe even J River Media) to achieve pretty respectable out front sound stage with headphones. I am totally unfamiliar with all of it, but might try something like that. It's fairly inexpensive.

 

[Sonnie Parker]

So tonight I have eliminated all but the V-Moda M-100's in this group. After swapping back and back several times, they clearly have the deepest bass extension with no boominess or bloating, with good clarity throughout the mids and highs. They also play louder than any of the others, not that I need them to play louder, but they are more sensitive. The only drawback to these is the fit over my ears... even with what they consider XL cushions, they do not give my ears the room I like. I wish I could find a pair of these that had larger ear cushions. Sound stage and imaging are what they are considering headphones. The V-Moda set no doubt out-performs my A900's... I am rather impressed by their sound.

Now we await the other to get here.

Lou... rolling back to your comments again...

Headphone Imaging Paradox.

Very interesting article and now it all does make a lot more sense. I just never have been much of a headphone person and haven't given it much thought until recently.

I am merely listening thru my computer right now, so it's definitely nothing special, but no more than I use them, it does the job for me. I do have the little FiiO E10 USB DAC, but I can't tell any difference in it and my computer. I guess I use my headphones to somewhat find music I think I will like, then I buy it to extract to my USB flash drive and play in my listening room/theater. And occasionally I just like to listen on the headphones... it is a different sound that I can appreciate to a certain extent. I haven't ruled out J River Media and TB Isone yet... that sounds like a good answer and might be worth trying at a relatively easy price.

 

[1_sufferin_mind]

Asking about your source component was just a way to see if I could help find a "spatializer" function. I don't think your computer will have one, but the software you use to listen might. Not trying to sell you one way or the other, but you'll be covered if you go the J River route: "Media Center is the ideal system for listening on high-end headphones. It includes an (optional) audiophile-grade crossfeed that makes headphones sound more natural and less fatiguing."

BTW, I like your listening method for finding new music. Gooooo V-Moda!

 

[Sonnie Parker]

Definitely need to get J River going again!

Listened to all of the HDtracks Hi-Res 2017 Sampler I downloaded yesterday thru the V-Moda's, love the sound, but my ears were sore when I got done. I guess I need to carve my ears down a little.

 

[Sonnie Parker]

Got the AKG 550's in today... had a quick listen and immediately noticed how bass shy they were.

Very comfortable and soft, but the bass was missing... just did not seem like they had any meat about them.

Eliminated!

V-Moda's still reigning at the moment.

 

[Todd Anderson]

Did you order the Monoprice? I'm guessing they'll surprise you...

It's a shame that Monoprice discontinued the PM-2. Those offered the awesome performance for the price... although they would fall outside of your $300 range...

 

[JBrax]

Got the AKG 550's in today... had a quick listen and immediately noticed how bass shy they were.

Very comfortable and soft, but the bass was missing... just did not seem like they had any meat about them.

Eliminated!

V-Moda's still reigning at the moment.

I'll admit to being a huge fan of AKG headphones but you're right about them being light on bass. You really have to step up to the 712/812's to get any bass. They've really improved with those while keeping the silky smooth airiness of what AKG is known for. Just so happens I'm giving mine a good workout.

 

[Sonnie Parker]

If the 712's were closed back, I'd probably give them a whirl. The 812's are definitely out of my price range.

I did order the Monoprice Monolith. They should be here tomorrow along with the Sony.

I have not ordered the OPPO PM-3's yet, but still plan to order them.

My wife still likes our A900's the best... even better than the V-Moda's.

 

[JBrax]

If the 712's were closed back, I'd probably give them a whirl. The 812's are definitely out of my price range.

I did order the Monoprice Monolith. They should be here tomorrow along with the Sony.

I have not ordered the OPPO PM-3's yet, but still plan to order them.

My wife still likes our A900's the best... even better than the V-Moda's.

I only listen at home so the whole bleeding of sound was a non issue. I just find open headphones to be much closer to what you would find at a live performance. If you're not leaving the house they're the way to go.

 

[Sonnie Parker]

We are at home as well, but she's on the couch and I'm in the recliner typing on my laptop while listening. She was not fond of the one pair of open backs I trialed once.

I do have J River Media installed and the spatial enhancements are okay... no doubt different, but still doesn't set the sound stage out front.

 

[AudiocRaver]

The PM-1s are killer, and, I believe, just a tad bit cleaner than the PM-3s

The Sony MDR-V6 has strong bass and really sharp imaging.

I'll go with speakers any day, but sometimes 'phones are 'phun. With no listening room for the time being, the 'phones will be getting a lot more play time than they normally do.

 

[Jack]

I have been using the Beyerdynamics DT 880's, 250ohm version for a bit now powered by the Headroom Desktop Amp and in my case the built in Dac, which has the crossfeed built in and it works pretty well, although the crossfeed can darken the sound a bit. The differences are not huge but the soundstage is enhanced a bit. A good example would be the Father and Son cut on the HD version of Cat Stevens "Tea for the Tillerman" album. The crossfeed moves his vocals out front and the backing vocals well behind. I like it. But i like running the Headroom outputs into the Schiit Vali headphone amp, the sound quality is raised a bit, very clean and clear. This is especially evident on cuts like Blue Moon from the Cowboy Junkies or The Chain on the most excellent HD Fleetwood Mac "Rumors" download.
I think I could go on and on but you get the message.
I think I would like to find a good pair of headphones to replace the Beyer's so I will follow this closely.

 

[Sonnie Parker]

The PM-1s are killer, and, I believe, just a tad bit cleaner than the PM-3s

At $1100 they should be more than a "tad" bit cleaner shouldn't they? If they were not open back and cost so much... but for how I'm listening it's hard to justify the expense. I am expecting the PM-3's to be pretty good at $400... and that's more than I want to spend.

I'll go with speakers any day, but sometimes 'phones are 'phun. With no listening room for the time being, the 'phones will be getting a lot more play time than they normally do.

Yep... speakers are king no doubt. "Phun" is all I'm after for phones!

I have been using the Beyerdynamics DT 880's, 250ohm version for a bit now powered by the Headroom Desktop Amp and in my case the built in Dac, which has the crossfeed built in

I thought the 880's were some of the best I'd heard and very comfortable, but being open back they just wouldn't work for me. Do you have J River Media... and if so, have you compared their Headphone crossfeed settings to your amp with built-in crossfeed? I was not able to get anything out front with the JRM settings, and similar to what you state, the sound seemed like it was a bit muted. I could clearly tell there was space added, but it was more like voices going farther out away from the sides of my head rather than in front of me.

On another note... I know for a fact that regular headphones can produce a sound stage that is totally out in front and sound almost, if not precisely, like my room. The caveat is it cost $2K to achieve... well $1700 if you order it prior to its release June 30, 2017. The Smyth Research Realizer A16 system that several of us demo'd at Axpona... it is for real.

 

[Sonnie Parker]

Unboxing ... what could it be... woohooooooo!

Spoiler: Drum roll.......

Monolith Planars and 1A's ...

 

[JBrax]

A lot of people seem to like those Sony cans. Looking forward to your impressions.

 

[Sonnie Parker]

Probably my favorites thus far are the 1A's... but like the V-Moda's... the cushions are too small and any extended listening makes my ears sore. The 1A's are near perfect for the sound I like... good extended bass, not bloated, mids and highs are very clear. I really like the sound. I do NOT like the fit.

The Monoliths... whoa... what a shock! These things are like boat anchors... and there is practically no bass at all... no extended bass and weak mid-bass as well. They just did not sound right to me.

Right now I think I would rank them as follows:

Sony 1A - excellent bass and overall good sound - not a good fit - cushions too small - super light - nice looking!
V-Moda M100 - excellent bass and overall good sound - cushions too small even with XL replacements - a bit on the heavy side compared to others - ugly!
AKG-553 - good bass and good sound - fit okay... same as A900's - clear around the ear, but not the depth - look okay.
ATH-MSR7 - good bass and excellent sound - cushions too small - look okay.
ATH-1100iS - good bass - and good sound - best fit of them all - clear circumference and depth of ear - look okay.
AKG-550 - weaker bass but excellent sound overall - fit same as A900's - look okay.
Monoprice Monolith - weaker bass of any tested thus far... weak mid-bass, did not sound right - cushions too small - super heavy - ugly!

At this point nothing is really worthy of replacing the A900's

I am beginning to wonder if I need bother ordering the PM-3's... even with a 30 day money back guarantee.

I wish I could find some like the Sony's with larger ear cushions. Those would be the cans for me.

 

[Jack]

I thought the 880's were some of the best I'd heard and very comfortable, but being open back they just wouldn't work for me. Do you have J River Media... and if so, have you compared their Headphone crossfeed settings to your amp with built-in crossfeed? I was not able to get anything out front with the JRM settings, and similar to what you state, the sound seemed like it was a bit muted. I could clearly tell there was space added, but it was more like voices going farther out away from the sides of my head rather than in front of me.

Yes, I do use JRiver as my main music squeeze but have not tried their version of crossfeed because I did not know it existed. Now that you have enlightened me, I will give it a go and report back.

 

[Sonnie Parker]

Thanks... it's under DSP, although I am sure you can find it. The Pronounced is pretty dramatic, but needs a little volume boost after engaging, which the equalizer can take care of.

 

[Jack]

It seems, imo at least that the Jriver version takes a bigger hit in the clarity and impact department the more aggressive one gets with the choices. The Headroom amp/dac does suffer from some softening but not by that much.
The thing that I did not like much about the all out super presentation in Jriver is that in some cases, it made the music so disjointed it almost sounded monophonic. I understand we can play with various other settings but i did not do that although I think I should. As you can see on the Headroom, right next to the crossfeed switch is a brightness switch with two settings. This to me is so much easier when testing the sonics of a thing in that it changes while you listen if necessary with no delays to go back and forth, start the music and stop etc. So I am somewhat liking the option on the Desktop amp/dac for convenience and sonics I can dial in pretty quick.

 

[Jack]

Unboxing ... what could it be... woohooooooo!

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts, Yum !

 

[Sonnie Parker]

The thing that I did not like much about the all out super presentation in Jriver is that in some cases, it made the music so disjointed it almost sounded monophonic.

I never got the monophonic sound with anything I listened to. I sounded more in the middle of my head without any processing, then when engaging the processing, it added the spacial effect, but as you get into the pronounced settings, it seem somewhat muted, like it need a boost, which the equalizer easily cured. BUT... I am not sold on that sound, because it is not what I would call any improvement in sound stage... it does nothing at all for creating a more realistic sound stage like you get with speakers.

This to me is so much easier when testing the sonics of a thing in that it changes while you listen if necessary with no delays to go back and forth, start the music and stop etc.

There is no delay with the changes I make in JRM... it's instantaneous and like a switch. Uncheck the box and it goes away in a nanosecond. If you are getting delays, I can only assume it low memory or a slower hard drive. I can check and uncheck and hear the difference between any two settings. Same with the equalizer, which unlike many amps that only boost a single range of frequencies, the EQ in JRM has bands... and it also has a parametric EQ to pinpoint frequencies and set your own bandwidth Q. Pretty nifty... but again... it does nothing to help the sound stage, not for me anyway.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts, Yum !

I posted them above... scroll back up.

I am not going to buy any headphone amps or worry with JRM for helping with the headphones. I am holding out for the A16 Realiser from Smyth-Research. They actually work and will get the sound stage out front. I can duplicate exactly what I hear with my ML's. August can't get here quick enough for me to own one of those. It is expensive, but I think it will be worth it, even if my main use will be two channel. I could dig sitting in my recliner working on my computer while listening like that. Too cool!

 

[tesseract]

The OPPO PM-3 are a reach pricewise, but completely worth the extra scratch, Sonnie.