Equipment for ROON

NBPK402

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I hope you have better luck with JRiver than I did... every single windows version after a few weeks would start crashing on me. I have a version on Linux and last time I checked it was still stable though. I kept buying the latest version since ai liked it, but for me when I tried Roon it was in a whole different league. Now for me I like using a tablet, as I like to contrrol my equipment via tablets using IP instead of IR too. JRivers remote was horrible for me. Keep us posted as to what you end up keeping.
In this time and age.. I am surprised that we have so few ways to listen to music in a reliable and easy to control way. Why dont they develop a way to where a person could have buttons that installed over a touchscreen for people who like buttons? A switchable screen option to where all control could be simoultaniously displayed on your remote (large enough for anyone to see), and also hit a button and be on your screen with maybe a air remote?
 
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Sonnie

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Thread Starter
Joined
Apr 2, 2017
Messages
5,148
Location
Alabama
More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
StormAudio ISP Elite 24 MK3 Processor
Main Amp
McIntosh MC1.25KW Monoblock Amps
Additional Amp
StormAudio PA 16 MK3
Computer Audio
Intel NUC w/ Roon ROCK
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
Panasonic UB9000 4K UHD Player (for media discs)
Front Speakers
RTJ 410
Center Channel Speaker
MartinLogan Focus C-18
Front Wide Speakers
JTR Neosis 110HT
Surround Speakers
JTR Neosis 210RT
Surround Back Speakers
JTR Neosis 210RT
Front Height Speakers
JTR Neosis 110HT-SL
Rear Height Speakers
JTR Neosis 110HT-SL
Subwoofers
JTR Captivator 2400 x6
Other Speakers or Equipment
VTI Amp Stands for the Monoblocks
Video Display Device
Sony 98X90L
Remote Control
Universal MX-890
Streaming Equipment
Kaleidescape | FireCube | Lenova Carbon X1 and Intel NUC for Roon
Streaming Subscriptions
Lifetime Roon Subscription
Tidal
qobuz
Netflix
Amazon Prime
Satellite System
Dish Joey 4K
Other Equipment
Zero Surge 8R15W-1 | Salamander Synergy Equipment Stand
I hope you have better luck with JRiver than I did... every single windows version after a few weeks would start crashing on me. I have a version on Linux and last time I checked it was still stable though. I kept buying the latest version since ai liked it, but for me when I tried Roon it was in a whole different league. Now for me I like using a tablet, as I like to contrrol my equipment via tablets using IP instead of IR too. JRivers remote was horrible for me. Keep us posted as to what you end up keeping.
In this time and age.. I am surprised that we have so few ways to listen to music in a reliable and easy to control way. Why dont they develop a way to where a person could have buttons that installed over a touchscreen for people who like buttons? A switchable screen option to where all control could be simoultaniously displayed on your remote (large enough for anyone to see), and also hit a button and be on your screen with maybe a air remote?
This is extremely ironic to say the least... I've had zero issues with JRiver. I'm using my laptop... no remote, so it's the core program I get on the laptop, not an app version of anything.

HOWEVER... Roon has crashed on me several times... just quit in the middle of a song... and I had to restart the program.

Audirvana has performed fairly well, although I have to click the song twice sometimes. I haven't been using the queue yet... mainly testing different songs, so a log of search and find clicks to play. Another issue with Audirvana is the volume is not smooth with the mouse scroll wheel. Smooth as silk on Roon and JRiver. I reported it to Audirvana, but haven't heard back yet, although they did ask for more info, and their logs from the program, so I suppose they are at least looking into it.

The verdict is still out. I own up to version 27 with JRiver, so for my personal music I'll use it. For integration with qobuz or Tidal, I'll have to pick either Roon or Audirvana... and that verdict is still pending. :rolleyes:
 

NBPK402

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I hear you Sonnie... I know others that love JRiver, and it is rock solid for them. I like the look of JRiver and all the features it has (but not as much as I do Roon...now that I have finally actually got it)...hence why I have several years of JRiver editions on my NAS backup. I truly wanted and expected the newer version each time to actually work, but they never did for more than a few weeks.. Sorta of a love hate experience for me, and also why I have the latest version sitting on my Linux PC, but all the windows versions I have owned all would crash on any Windows PC I have owned...even fresh OS installs. The one thing I did not like at all was the remote app for android. From day 1 Roon has been rock solid, and never crashed for me. Now granted I have only owned it for a few months, but my JRiver versions never lasted that long.Now I have only used Kodi, JRiver, Plex and Roon sonI have zero experience with any other software. I also ran Kodi for quite a while and I liked it too, but he last few versions it got buggy too. I talked to one of my friends and he said he has been having provlems lately too.plex has noce things I like about it too, but I have never really liked the interface as much as Kodi, JRiver, and recently Roon.
 

Sonnie

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Thread Starter
Joined
Apr 2, 2017
Messages
5,148
Location
Alabama
More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
StormAudio ISP Elite 24 MK3 Processor
Main Amp
McIntosh MC1.25KW Monoblock Amps
Additional Amp
StormAudio PA 16 MK3
Computer Audio
Intel NUC w/ Roon ROCK
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
Panasonic UB9000 4K UHD Player (for media discs)
Front Speakers
RTJ 410
Center Channel Speaker
MartinLogan Focus C-18
Front Wide Speakers
JTR Neosis 110HT
Surround Speakers
JTR Neosis 210RT
Surround Back Speakers
JTR Neosis 210RT
Front Height Speakers
JTR Neosis 110HT-SL
Rear Height Speakers
JTR Neosis 110HT-SL
Subwoofers
JTR Captivator 2400 x6
Other Speakers or Equipment
VTI Amp Stands for the Monoblocks
Video Display Device
Sony 98X90L
Remote Control
Universal MX-890
Streaming Equipment
Kaleidescape | FireCube | Lenova Carbon X1 and Intel NUC for Roon
Streaming Subscriptions
Lifetime Roon Subscription
Tidal
qobuz
Netflix
Amazon Prime
Satellite System
Dish Joey 4K
Other Equipment
Zero Surge 8R15W-1 | Salamander Synergy Equipment Stand
Okay... so I am paying for Roon as of right now, since my trial ran out and they auto charged my card. I am favoring it because of the Roon radio, the suggestion scheme and the integration with qobuz, which I also chose over Tidal for right now. I already have JRiver, so if I'm only tinkering with my own music, I'll probably use it, but then again, if Roon suggest music based on what I'm listening to in my own library, I may end up going Roon exclusively. Still don't like their snobby and ignorant management, but it is what it is.

Ordered up a Lenovo X1 Carbon 14" laptop to load all my local music on... so ultimately that will be my "equipment" I was looking for.
 

OldSchool1948

New Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2020
Messages
2
Location
Fort Washington, MD
More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
PS Audio BHK Reference Preamplifier
Main Amp
NAD M22 v2
Additional Amp
McIntosh MC2600
Other Amp
Pioneer SPEC-4
Front Speakers
Tannoy DC8Ti
Streaming Equipment
PS Audio Stellar Phono Preamplifier
Streaming Subscriptions
PS Audio DirectStream DAC
Satellite System
Innous Zenith MKII Network Player
Other Equipment
Technics SL-1200G Turntable
@Sonnie. Excellent laptop choice. I went to Roon kind of kicking and screaming after using so many other media managers for so long (LMS, JRiver, & HQPlayer). Now, I only use Roon. Interface aside, I haven't found anything that integrates and organizes on-disk and streaming music libraries better. Roon Radio is great, and it's cross platform search function is excellent.

I use Tidal because it has more music that I like and being Army retired, I get a great discount. After doing A/B tests with Qobuz and Tidal, I didn't find much difference in SQ between Qobuz HighRes and Tidal MQA and it also depended on the song. When it came to CD quality tracks, I found no difference.

Regarding Roon and Tidal MQA, the belief is you need a DAC with MQA to take full advantage of MQA SQ because Roon only does the 1st unfold. I have an MQA DAC, so I can't comment on that one way or the other. With Qobuz, none of that matters.

Enjoy the music!
 

Sonnie

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Thread Starter
Joined
Apr 2, 2017
Messages
5,148
Location
Alabama
More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
StormAudio ISP Elite 24 MK3 Processor
Main Amp
McIntosh MC1.25KW Monoblock Amps
Additional Amp
StormAudio PA 16 MK3
Computer Audio
Intel NUC w/ Roon ROCK
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
Panasonic UB9000 4K UHD Player (for media discs)
Front Speakers
RTJ 410
Center Channel Speaker
MartinLogan Focus C-18
Front Wide Speakers
JTR Neosis 110HT
Surround Speakers
JTR Neosis 210RT
Surround Back Speakers
JTR Neosis 210RT
Front Height Speakers
JTR Neosis 110HT-SL
Rear Height Speakers
JTR Neosis 110HT-SL
Subwoofers
JTR Captivator 2400 x6
Other Speakers or Equipment
VTI Amp Stands for the Monoblocks
Video Display Device
Sony 98X90L
Remote Control
Universal MX-890
Streaming Equipment
Kaleidescape | FireCube | Lenova Carbon X1 and Intel NUC for Roon
Streaming Subscriptions
Lifetime Roon Subscription
Tidal
qobuz
Netflix
Amazon Prime
Satellite System
Dish Joey 4K
Other Equipment
Zero Surge 8R15W-1 | Salamander Synergy Equipment Stand
Thanks for the insight guys... much appreciated.

I swapped out my SmartRG modem/router yesterday for Plume pods... so now I get about 95Mbps down and up in my theater/listening room now. Looking forward to getting all my music loaded on my laptop and digging in to some heavy duty listening.
 

AustinJerry

Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2017
Messages
216
I want to conduct an evaluation of Roon and have done a lot of research, but am not clear on what should be a very easy question to answer, so I am hoping someone here can help. To run the evaluation, I will install the core on my laptop. But my question is--how do I output the audio to my existing Marantz AVR? Can I use the laptop's HDMI output? I want to run the evaluation before purchasing any additional hardware like a Roon Endpoint or a Nucleus, so I am hoping the Marantz can be used. I would appreciate any advice, thanks.
 

Sonnie

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Staff member
Thread Starter
Joined
Apr 2, 2017
Messages
5,148
Location
Alabama
More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
StormAudio ISP Elite 24 MK3 Processor
Main Amp
McIntosh MC1.25KW Monoblock Amps
Additional Amp
StormAudio PA 16 MK3
Computer Audio
Intel NUC w/ Roon ROCK
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
Panasonic UB9000 4K UHD Player (for media discs)
Front Speakers
RTJ 410
Center Channel Speaker
MartinLogan Focus C-18
Front Wide Speakers
JTR Neosis 110HT
Surround Speakers
JTR Neosis 210RT
Surround Back Speakers
JTR Neosis 210RT
Front Height Speakers
JTR Neosis 110HT-SL
Rear Height Speakers
JTR Neosis 110HT-SL
Subwoofers
JTR Captivator 2400 x6
Other Speakers or Equipment
VTI Amp Stands for the Monoblocks
Video Display Device
Sony 98X90L
Remote Control
Universal MX-890
Streaming Equipment
Kaleidescape | FireCube | Lenova Carbon X1 and Intel NUC for Roon
Streaming Subscriptions
Lifetime Roon Subscription
Tidal
qobuz
Netflix
Amazon Prime
Satellite System
Dish Joey 4K
Other Equipment
Zero Surge 8R15W-1 | Salamander Synergy Equipment Stand
Yes... you can use your HDMI output to the Marantz with your laptop being the core.

If your Marantz is on your network, the Roon software will pick it up, or at least it picks up my NAD M17 with no issues. I make it my endpoint and listen wireless.
 

AustinJerry

Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2017
Messages
216
Yes... you can use your HDMI output to the Marantz with your laptop being the core.

If your Marantz is on your network, the Roon software will pick it up, or at least it picks up my NAD M17 with no issues. I make it my endpoint and listen wireless.

Thanks, Sonnie. I would prefer to use a wired (HDMI) connection rather than going wireless. Do you know for sure that the wireless connection is bit perfect?
 

Sonnie

Senior Admin
Staff member
Thread Starter
Joined
Apr 2, 2017
Messages
5,148
Location
Alabama
More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
StormAudio ISP Elite 24 MK3 Processor
Main Amp
McIntosh MC1.25KW Monoblock Amps
Additional Amp
StormAudio PA 16 MK3
Computer Audio
Intel NUC w/ Roon ROCK
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
Panasonic UB9000 4K UHD Player (for media discs)
Front Speakers
RTJ 410
Center Channel Speaker
MartinLogan Focus C-18
Front Wide Speakers
JTR Neosis 110HT
Surround Speakers
JTR Neosis 210RT
Surround Back Speakers
JTR Neosis 210RT
Front Height Speakers
JTR Neosis 110HT-SL
Rear Height Speakers
JTR Neosis 110HT-SL
Subwoofers
JTR Captivator 2400 x6
Other Speakers or Equipment
VTI Amp Stands for the Monoblocks
Video Display Device
Sony 98X90L
Remote Control
Universal MX-890
Streaming Equipment
Kaleidescape | FireCube | Lenova Carbon X1 and Intel NUC for Roon
Streaming Subscriptions
Lifetime Roon Subscription
Tidal
qobuz
Netflix
Amazon Prime
Satellite System
Dish Joey 4K
Other Equipment
Zero Surge 8R15W-1 | Salamander Synergy Equipment Stand
I am pretty sure Wi-Fi is bit-perfect, at least I know it's supported. You might double verify with Roon, but I don't believe it knows the difference between wired and wireless.

The question might be... do you have the bandwidth/throughput to keep a good connection. You can stream a few hundred Netflix movies at one time with 300Mbps throughput, which is more than anyone gets via Internet, and typically the least you'd get with today's wi-fi cards. I get 866Mbps on my Thinkpad, which is half of the max capable at 1733Mbps. So the limiting factor for me would not be the wi-fi.

I have listened both ways and I cannot hear any difference during critical listening. You can setup both and easily switch back and forth.

Another question might be is your laptop sound card bit-perfect?

Bluetooth ... I would not trust it. And make sure you are not using Airplay, as I believe it resamples.
 

AustinJerry

Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2017
Messages
216
No, I have no idea whether the laptop audio is bitperfect. However, the laptop is only a temporary Core during the evaluation period. If I decide to switch to Roon, I would consider a Nucleus or one of the other more appropriate hardware platforms for the Core. My primary interest is the Roon interface and how it compares with Sonos, which I have used for years.

Thanks again for your input.
 

Sonnie

Senior Admin
Staff member
Thread Starter
Joined
Apr 2, 2017
Messages
5,148
Location
Alabama
More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
StormAudio ISP Elite 24 MK3 Processor
Main Amp
McIntosh MC1.25KW Monoblock Amps
Additional Amp
StormAudio PA 16 MK3
Computer Audio
Intel NUC w/ Roon ROCK
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
Panasonic UB9000 4K UHD Player (for media discs)
Front Speakers
RTJ 410
Center Channel Speaker
MartinLogan Focus C-18
Front Wide Speakers
JTR Neosis 110HT
Surround Speakers
JTR Neosis 210RT
Surround Back Speakers
JTR Neosis 210RT
Front Height Speakers
JTR Neosis 110HT-SL
Rear Height Speakers
JTR Neosis 110HT-SL
Subwoofers
JTR Captivator 2400 x6
Other Speakers or Equipment
VTI Amp Stands for the Monoblocks
Video Display Device
Sony 98X90L
Remote Control
Universal MX-890
Streaming Equipment
Kaleidescape | FireCube | Lenova Carbon X1 and Intel NUC for Roon
Streaming Subscriptions
Lifetime Roon Subscription
Tidal
qobuz
Netflix
Amazon Prime
Satellite System
Dish Joey 4K
Other Equipment
Zero Surge 8R15W-1 | Salamander Synergy Equipment Stand
I've enjoyed Roon for the most part. I like controlling Roon via my Thinkpad, but I have been looking at options for a dedicated music server that can rest next to my audio equipment. It may be as simple as connecting an external USB SSD my M17 processor, or looking into the matching NAD M50.2... or maybe go with the Sonic Transporter i5 from Small Green Computers. I don't think I'd do the Nucleus since it Roon specific, and I'd like to have more flexibility than what it appears to offer.

Looking forward to hearing what you think about Roon. I was a bit doubtful at first, but after digging in for a while, it's growing on me.
 

golfbravo

Registered
Joined
Aug 20, 2021
Messages
13
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Hopefully, you have resolved all this now. If not, Roon has a great forum with lots of good advice.

I'm an active Roon user and happy to help too.
 

JStewart

Senior AV Addict
Supporter
Joined
Dec 5, 2017
Messages
2,069
Location
Central FL
Amongst my other chores yesterday, fixing the the well pump and putting up more Christmas lights, I got Roon server set up on a rescued from work Win 10 machine (I5 1tb drive). After running the widows program to wipe its data and restore windows to it‘s original state, the Roon server was installed. Then the library backup from the previous Roon core on the laptop was loaded. I don’t have a ton of files compared to many, but what I do have is kept on an OneDrive folder, so after OneDrive synced all where present. All went flawlessly and I now have a full time, ethernet connected Roon core.

As to the why…. One key reason is I really enjoy Roon radio. With Roon’s ARC feature and separate app, Roon will travel with me. Went for a good walk in the afternoon and the music was great. Here’s a bit of it anyway.

2ADD34BF-3E07-4C64-A811-23E033DEE124.png


With a NAD receiver in the living/family room and couple of Sonos speakers in the house it’s the same interface for everything now.

The server PC is in the office near the DAC and headphone amp and just ordered a long enough usb to keep a permanent connection, where before I would fire up the laptop and plug the usb in.

I really should have done this sooner. Guess I just needed motivation, like a computer that was readily available and paid for.
 

NBPK402

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Apr 17, 2017
Messages
1,703
Location
San Miguel de Allende Mexico
One thing I wish i knew how to do with Roon is...if I am listening to a playlist or Roon Radio in the living room and want to pause the track. When I select my tablet to pickup where I was listening in the LR it plays the current track and then goes back to what I played on my tablet earlier.
 

JStewart

Senior AV Addict
Supporter
Joined
Dec 5, 2017
Messages
2,069
Location
Central FL
One thing I wish i knew how to do with Roon is...if I am listening to a playlist or Roon Radio in the living room and want to pause the track. When I select my tablet to pickup where I was listening in the LR it plays the current track and then goes back to what I played on my tablet earlier.

Here is what happened for me. Using iPhone I selected a playlist and started it. I let it play for a few moments and paused it. This is a screenshot of the queue from the phone:

58F225F2-4400-48C8-9613-999A9888C710.jpeg


On the iPad I opened the queue for the same zone and started playing the same song in the queue.


5CBE5EC7-BF6B-4384-80C4-99DB26D183BD.png


It continued moving through the queue from there.


84EB148D-ED72-4395-B8B3-F11385919B49.png


Where you starting it on the 2nd device from the queue?
 

NBPK402

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Apr 17, 2017
Messages
1,703
Location
San Miguel de Allende Mexico
I am starting with the same song on the playlist on the 2nd device after pausing the first device, but what it does is play the one selected song and then return to the playlist or song that was up prior to changing the room. All I want to do is be able to continue the play list i was playing in the current room in the room I am going to.
 

ddude003

AV Addict
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Messages
1,410
Location
Somewhere Northeast of Kansas City Missouri
More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium TubePre (2 channel+sub)
Main Amp
McIntosh MC152 SS Amp (2 channel)
Additional Amp
Yamaha RX-A850 Pro (the other 5 channels lol)
Computer Audio
MacBook Pro, Custom i7 7700k De-lid 2xAsus1080ti GFX Audirvana Studio, Hang Loose Convolver, Pulsar Massive & 8200, LiquidSonics, SoX
DAC
Chord Electronics Ltd. Qutest
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
Sony UBP-X700 /M Ultra HD 4K HDR & PS5
Front Speakers
Martin Logan ElectroMotion ESL
Center Channel Speaker
Martin Logan Motion C2
Surround Speakers
Martin Logan Motion 4
Surround Back Speakers
Martin Logan Motion 4 (yes, another set of these)
Subwoofers
Martin Logan Dynamo 700
Other Speakers or Equipment
Cifte 12AU7 NOS & Genalex Gold Lion Tubes in Pre
Video Display Device
Samsung The Premiere LSP7T UST Laser Projector
Screen
Elite Screens Aeon CLR3 0.8 Gain 103-inch
Remote Control
PrimaLuna, Lumin iApp, Samsung & Yamaha
Streaming Equipment
Netgear Nighthawk S8000 Streaming Switch, Lumin U1 Mini Streamer Transport
Streaming Subscriptions
QoBuz Studio Premier, Amazon Prime & Netflix
Other Equipment
ThrowRug, SaddleBlankets, WideBand & Bass Traps...
Have you tried linking err, group your two output devices together so they are playing the same track/playlist?
 

ddude003

AV Addict
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Messages
1,410
Location
Somewhere Northeast of Kansas City Missouri
More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium TubePre (2 channel+sub)
Main Amp
McIntosh MC152 SS Amp (2 channel)
Additional Amp
Yamaha RX-A850 Pro (the other 5 channels lol)
Computer Audio
MacBook Pro, Custom i7 7700k De-lid 2xAsus1080ti GFX Audirvana Studio, Hang Loose Convolver, Pulsar Massive & 8200, LiquidSonics, SoX
DAC
Chord Electronics Ltd. Qutest
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
Sony UBP-X700 /M Ultra HD 4K HDR & PS5
Front Speakers
Martin Logan ElectroMotion ESL
Center Channel Speaker
Martin Logan Motion C2
Surround Speakers
Martin Logan Motion 4
Surround Back Speakers
Martin Logan Motion 4 (yes, another set of these)
Subwoofers
Martin Logan Dynamo 700
Other Speakers or Equipment
Cifte 12AU7 NOS & Genalex Gold Lion Tubes in Pre
Video Display Device
Samsung The Premiere LSP7T UST Laser Projector
Screen
Elite Screens Aeon CLR3 0.8 Gain 103-inch
Remote Control
PrimaLuna, Lumin iApp, Samsung & Yamaha
Streaming Equipment
Netgear Nighthawk S8000 Streaming Switch, Lumin U1 Mini Streamer Transport
Streaming Subscriptions
QoBuz Studio Premier, Amazon Prime & Netflix
Other Equipment
ThrowRug, SaddleBlankets, WideBand & Bass Traps...
I have virtually the same thing... My laptop to my Lumin, Pre, Amp, speakers in the living room and a Bose via bluetooth in the kitchen... An option to _group_ Zone Grouping...
 

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Sonnie

Senior Admin
Staff member
Thread Starter
Joined
Apr 2, 2017
Messages
5,148
Location
Alabama
More  
Preamp, Processor or Receiver
StormAudio ISP Elite 24 MK3 Processor
Main Amp
McIntosh MC1.25KW Monoblock Amps
Additional Amp
StormAudio PA 16 MK3
Computer Audio
Intel NUC w/ Roon ROCK
Universal / Blu-ray / CD Player
Panasonic UB9000 4K UHD Player (for media discs)
Front Speakers
RTJ 410
Center Channel Speaker
MartinLogan Focus C-18
Front Wide Speakers
JTR Neosis 110HT
Surround Speakers
JTR Neosis 210RT
Surround Back Speakers
JTR Neosis 210RT
Front Height Speakers
JTR Neosis 110HT-SL
Rear Height Speakers
JTR Neosis 110HT-SL
Subwoofers
JTR Captivator 2400 x6
Other Speakers or Equipment
VTI Amp Stands for the Monoblocks
Video Display Device
Sony 98X90L
Remote Control
Universal MX-890
Streaming Equipment
Kaleidescape | FireCube | Lenova Carbon X1 and Intel NUC for Roon
Streaming Subscriptions
Lifetime Roon Subscription
Tidal
qobuz
Netflix
Amazon Prime
Satellite System
Dish Joey 4K
Other Equipment
Zero Surge 8R15W-1 | Salamander Synergy Equipment Stand
Still loving Roon and ROCK on my Intel NUC with the USB T7 SSD for my server music... still loving all the new music I am discovering... and Roon radio as well. I just need to use it more.
 
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