DSP corrections made in the Jriver22 player. REW signals just go directly to the sound card

[Rewjack081225]

After 6 years of storage, I can't figure out anymore what the problem is—not being able to take measurements in REW (Room EQ Wizard) that includes DSP corrections made in the Jriver22 player. REW signals just go directly to the sound card...

With ASIO driver, choices of ASIO devices are;
1) Jriver media center 22 = all digital outputs but no input available in the ASIO control panel ?
2) Hammerfall DSP = all RME digital inputs/outputs available but no analog Mic ?
3) ASIO4all V2 = mixt audio inputs (mic works good) Signal goes directly to the RME outputs without Jriver player DSP corrections

With JAVA driver, choices of output device is;
1) all RME digital outputs and high definitiopn mic available, sound check OK, but Signal goes directly to the RME outputs without Jriver player DSP corrections ?

Is it an ASIO problem ? Need a professional REW upgrade ? Any suggestions ?

Actual sound system
PC; Desktop Win 8.1
Player = JRiver Media Center 22
Measurement software = REW (Room EQ Wizard) V5.31.3
Mic; MM01 SAMSON ANALOG 3.5mm
PCI Express card with AES/EBU interfaces RME HDSPe AES 32 (8 digital outputs cables)
4 DACs;two Bel Canto dac3, one Bel Canto dac3.5 VB (VBS1) and one Bel Canto dac1.5
5 Poweramps; two Linn 2250, one Linn AV 5125, two Linn LK 240 mono
Speakers, Supravox 400 gmf woofers, supravox 215rtf low mids, supravox 215rtf high mids and Supravos TG1 tweters

 

[Keith_W]

Oh boy. Buckle up for this one, it is going to get very complex and you are very likely to fail. Some observations about your setup:

1. The MM01 is an XLR microphone, you did not mention how it is connected to your PC.
2. You are running antiquated software, a very old version of Windows and an ancient version of JRiver. The problem is that current drivers from RME may not be tested with Windows 8.1 and results may be a bit flaky.
3. You have a very complex signal chain there, and you are trying to juggle 3 pieces of software: REW, JRiver, and RME Totalmix. Even with modern software, the three don't play nicely together.

The problem is that REW lacks a built-in convolver. This means you need to pass the signal from REW through a convolver to measure your multichannel speaker. In a nutshell, this is what you have to do:

1. Set up REW in ASIO mode. Set output to an unused digital input in your RME, let's say ADAT3/4. Set input to the analog input on your RME. Note that ASIO means one program, one device.
2. In RME Totalmix, set up a loopback from ADAT3/4 input to ADAT3/4 output
3. In JRiver, set it up to "listen for ASIO input" and set it to receive input from ADAT3/4.

Detailed instructions along with discussion of several options can be found in Book 2 of my REW eBook, see Section 3.2, "Measurement of Multichannel Speakers", p.28.

The reason you are likely to fail is because there is a known bug in JRiver that prevents it from receiving input from RME devices. To be fair, I don't know if it's JRiver's fault or RME's fault. I have complained to both companies and neither will own up to it, let alone fix it. This is true for my version of JRiver (JRMC33), I don't know if the current version (JRMC35) has fixed it. I can guarantee for sure that your version of JRiver will not work.

If you want to take measurements through your signal chain, you are best off taking an offline measurement in REW. But the problem with this is that not all types of measurements can be taken offline, for e.g. any type of loopback measurement. Depending on your needs, an offline measurement may be all that you need. If you really, really want to pursue this, I would advise upgrading to the latest version of ALL your software to ensure that your problem isn't some weird conflict between modern and ancient software.

 

[Rewjack081225]

First, thank you Keith for this long and well-reasoned response. In the coming days/weeks, I will study your proposed solutions, probably after the holidays, which are fast approaching.

Regarding my microphone input, it is indeed an XLR, but I connected an RCA cable, and it connects to the computer via the 3.5mm analog microphone jack.

The fact remains that between 2013 and 2016, same gear, I successfully created my filters (cutoffs, slopes, and delays) in MC22 and measured the results in REW. At the time, I simply enabled or disabled MIDI (REW communication preferences). I am trying to synchronize the two sets of four speakers (basic, low-mid, high-mid, and high frequencies) to obtain a clean and precise sound.

I might be able to reinstall older versions of REW (I haven't been able to find them)?

Thanks again for your help.

 

[Keith_W]

Your RME HDSPE AES32 has analog inputs. A bit of googling says that your microphone is prepolarized, meaning it does not need to be charged with 48V Phantom Power. I would suggest you connect your microphone to your RME card instead of your PC's 3.5mm analog input. You will need an appropriate D-Sub 25 breakout cable, check your manual for the pin configuration. The advantage of doing this is that the ADC and DAC are now on the same device and receiving the same clock signal, which means you can use ASIO. FWIW, I have the same sound card as you, but it's sitting in the box unused.

If you want to continue using your PC analog input, I strongly suggest you do a loopback measurement to linearize your measurement loop. (1) Set REW in Java mode, (2) connect a cable from a DAC output to the 3.5mm analog input, (3) follow REW's soundcard calibration procedure.

In the same Google Drive folder as that eBook, you will find two Acourate documents that I have also made available for free. I prefer using Acourate to generate filters, but I use REW to take measurements. IMO Acourate is a better tool for making linear-phase filters since you do not need to use rePhase or third party convolvers and try to make different software work together with complex routing chains. Acourate also automates some procedures, e.g. filter generation. With REW, it's all manual - which means you really need to know what you are doing, and execute the correct steps in the right order. There are other linear-phase FIR software, e.g. Audiolense, LinFIR, Eclipse Audio's FIR Designer, Focus Fidelity, etc. LinFIR is free, and that's where I suggest you should start.

 

[John Mulcahy]

Probably easier to use file playback for measurement and play the file from JRiver.