Does watermarking affect your listening to streaming music?

[Grayson Dere]

I was recently trying to find opinions on what people thought in terms of streaming music quality over physical media. From what I understand Universal Music Group has been, for a while, implementing an audible watermark to songs under popular record labels that they own for piracy prevention.

I'm curious what everyone thinks of the watermark as an audible degrader. Is it even a serious issue? or is it only an issue if we're actively listening for it?

*referenced articles: https://www.mattmontag.com/music/universals-audible-watermark
http://mattmontag.com/audio-listening-test/

 

[Matthew J Poes]

I was recently trying to find opinions on what people thought in terms of streaming music quality over physical media. From what I understand Universal Music Group has been, for a while, implementing an audible watermark to songs under popular record labels that they own for piracy prevention.

I'm curious what everyone thinks of the watermark as an audible degrader. Is it even a serious issue? or is it only an issue if we're actively listening for it?

*referenced articles: https://www.mattmontag.com/music/universals-audible-watermark
http://mattmontag.com/audio-listening-test/

Thanks for linking the article. I hadn’t seen this before but knew of the problem.

I’ve noticed the possible effect occasionally on certain music. I can’t say I find it makes the music unlistenable and lots of music I’ve listened to appears fine. I’ve not heard anything wrong.

Even with those listening test tracks I found the effect very subtle.

Having said that, it’s really too bad that they would impart degradation to the sound. Especially if it’s true that it’s most obvious on lesser systems or with hearing loss. Lesser systems are the majority of what people listen on.

 

[Travis Ballstadt]

This is fascinating.

I guess I was smart by spending time in a touring rock band. My ears are less than perfect.

 

[Grayson Dere]

Thanks for linking the article. I hadn’t seen this before but knew of the problem.

I’ve noticed the possible effect occasionally on certain music. I can’t say I find it makes the music unlistenable and lots of music I’ve listened to appears fine. I’ve not heard anything wrong.

Even with those listening test tracks I found the effect very subtle.

Having said that, it’s really too bad that they would impart degradation to the sound. Especially if it’s true that it’s most obvious on lesser systems or with hearing loss. Lesser systems are the majority of what people listen on.

Yes, it is unfortunate they went with the audible watermark. I wonder why they couldn't implement something at a super high frequency where it's audibly undetectable.

That being said, you're right, it is pretty subtle unless you really know what you're listening for in the watermark itself and are doing A/B track comparisons like from the link.

 

[Grayson Dere]

This is fascinating.

I guess I was smart by spending time in a touring rock band. My ears are less than perfect.

That's cool! which band did you tour with? Were you a musician in the group?

 

[Todd Anderson]

Wow. @Grayson Dere this might be the most interesting thread we've had to date. I hate to admit ignorance (and I have it in spades ), but I was completely unaware of watermarking. I guess my first question is: do all music services do it?

From my perspective, yes. It's complete crap that a music service takes art and alters it... especially since such a massive audience of music fans stream music.

 

[Grayson Dere]

Wow. @Grayson Dere this might be the most interesting thread we've had to date. I hate to admit ignorance (and I have it in spades ), but I was completely unaware of watermarking. I guess my first question is: do all music services do it?

From my perspective, yes. It's complete crap that a music service takes art and alters it... especially since such a massive audience of music fans stream music.

I think sometimes ignorance might be for the best...after learning about the watermarking now I'm questioning the quality of the music I stream... I'll try not to obsess over it too much, though. hahaha.

 

[Matthew J Poes]

Yes, it is unfortunate they went with the audible watermark. I wonder why they couldn't implement something at a super high frequency where it's audibly undetectable.

That being said, you're right, it is pretty subtle unless you really know what you're listening for in the watermark itself and are doing A/B track comparisons like from the link.

I think they may have addressed why in the article. It was to make it impossible to remove. If they did it in an inaudible section it could be removed simply by filtering it out. Something anyone can do. What they did can also be removed but not as simply. Someone would have to process every track knowing it’s provenance in order to know which watermark was used.

 

[Travis Ballstadt]

That's cool! which band did you tour with? Were you a musician in the group?

I was the lead guitarist for Vegas DeMilo for a few years in the early 2000s.

 

[tesseract]

I was unaware of this and am NOT happy about it. I will try not to think about it
when streaming, but sheesh, really?

 

[AudiocRaver]

AAARRRGGGHHH!!!!

 

[Grayson Dere]

I was the lead guitarist for Vegas DeMilo for a few years in the early 2000s.

Whoa! Super cool.

 

[Todd Anderson]

Does TIDAL do this?

 

[Grayson Dere]

Does TIDAL do this?

According to MattMontag's article he claims TIDAL is also affected. I'll look more into it, though.

Also, I just came across this link while doing a Google search regarding TIDAL and the UMG watermark:

https://listen.tidal.com/playlist/a26b6652-6eb4-4519-bb7c-ca395da27e0e