Digital signal noise from computer streaming devices?

[Grayson Dere]

Like some of us I've been thinking lately about how to improve the sound quality from my 2-channel digital streaming system. It sounds great already but I have a habit of trying out new things to squeeze out the last ounces of quality..if it exists : )

Does anyone have experience using external hardware devices that claim to get rid of digital jitter and other computer related noise? To tell you the truth I don't actually know what jitter or computer noise sounds like but when I put my ears an inch from the speaker drivers and have a music track on pause I don't hear anything but silence. Is jitter and digital noise something only audible during music playback? I'm curious.

I was checking out this product when I started questioning my system: https://ifi-audio.com/products/nano-igalvanic3-0/

Thanks for all your thoughts! : D

 

[Kal Rubinson]

It is a slippery slope down to a bottomless pit. Are you aware of any "buzz, hum and jitter?"

Over the years, I have sampled many such gadgets and discarded them because they make no audible difference.

 

[Grayson Dere]

Thank you for your thoughts, Kal! You might have just saved me many dollars! : D

 

[ddude003]

In the early days of personal computers we used to set an am/fm radio next to the computer and could play music via the RFI generated by various timing loops of code we wrote... There are also warnings about RFI interference and FCC rules of compliance hidden away in the fine print of many consumer electronics... My point being that many electric devices, including computers, disk drives and cell phones, produce Radio Frequency Interference... Given this knowledge and that of Maxwell, Tesla and Faraday, all things transmit and receive... Galvanic Isolation of USB devices are a pretty popular way of managing noise ingress... Many USB devices have Galvanic Isolation built into the design of the devices... Network Streamers and DACs come to mind... Where noise comes from and what is needed to clean it up are dependent on the environment and devices in that environment...

 

[simplex]

Like some of us I've been thinking lately about how to improve the sound quality from my 2-channel digital streaming system. It sounds great already but I have a habit of trying out new things to squeeze out the last ounces of quality..if it exists : )

I powered up my soldering station to assemble a HQ USB connection between Daphile server and preamp. Not only does the new solution look much better than those standard cables - now matching my speaker cables optically - also the sound appears to be more clear, soundstage a bit wider ... at least to my ears ...

Audible improvement of DIY gear like cables should always be taken with a grain of salt. At last you might want to justify the effort you invested in your project. The case was much simpler for my DIY speaker cables - I easily dumped my Kimber 8PR for them. In case of USB, the audible effect - if any - is very subtle. But satisfaction of having a good looking and matching solution of your own always adds to the overall performance. That's worth the effort!

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Given this knowledge and that of Maxwell, Tesla and Faraday, all things transmit and receive... Galvanic Isolation of USB devices are a pretty popular way of managing noise ingress... Many USB devices have Galvanic Isolation built into the design of the devices... Network Streamers and DACs come to mind... Where noise comes from and what is needed to clean it up are dependent on the environment and devices in that environment...

Sure but I don't hear any in my system. If you do, then.....and only then.......does it make any sense to pursue additional devices or, better yet, fix the source of the problem.

 

[ddude003]

Sure but I don't hear any in my system. If you do, then.....and only then.......does it make any sense to pursue additional devices or, better yet, fix the source of the problem.

I agree Kal... If the source is a PC and/or Laptop is it better to replace the PC and/or Laptop or add a streamer/endopint? I know what my choice was... Different horses... I would also like to add that some ears/brains or systems/rooms my not have the resolution to notice some types of noise... And of course noise/distortion may sound pleasant to some and not so much to others...

I lived a block away from a trucker that had a home CB/Short Wave Radio with an giant beam antenna... Imagine my surprise when he keyed up his 1,000 watt linear to skip across the atmosphere... Thundergod blead across all my devices... Even my stereo speakers whether my stereo was powered on or not...

Later, I worked with a bench tech as I wrote software for his breadboard computing device... One day he left his Oscilloscope on with a probe laying next to the computer I was writing software on... The O-Scope probe was over a foot away and still picked up on what ever was being transmitted in the gap by the computer I was using... Later we used a static electricity generator to test some devices we were making at that company... Wow... What an eye opener... You could literally fry a computer or computer like device, think Streamer, Preamp, DAC and/or Amp with some static... My point being, there is EM/RFI/Noise everywhere... Its everywhere... It is even created by the various components of a stereo or HT system... Noise created in one part of a system ingresses to another another...

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I agree Kal... If the source is a PC and/or Laptop is it better to replace the PC and/or Laptop or add a streamer/endopint?

The former. Why invest in an effort whose success cannot be guaranteed in favor of using a device that does not create the problem?

 

[Grayson Dere]

I powered up my soldering station to assemble a HQ USB connection between Daphile server and preamp. Not only does the new solution look much better than those standard cables - now matching my speaker cables optically - also the sound appears to be more clear, soundstage a bit wider ... at least to my ears ...

Audible improvement of DIY gear like cables should always be taken with a grain of salt. At last you might want to justify the effort you invested in your project. The case was much simpler for my DIY speaker cables - I easily dumped my Kimber 8PR for them. In case of USB, the audible effect - if any - is very subtle. But satisfaction of having a good looking and matching solution of your own always adds to the overall performance. That's worth the effort!

That's interesting, Simplex. Did you use a USB DIY kit? I haven't seen those before. Or did you reverse engineer a USB cord to create the DIY HQ USB connection? Thanks!

 

[simplex]

Did you use a USB DIY kit?

I do not know about USB kits. So I just bought some USB Type A and B plugs from an ebay seller. I chose simple types from a German seller because I did not want to wait for gold plated types shipping from the US or China.

I had some PTFE-insulated copper wire left over from another project, added silver solder, shrink wrap and a cable sleeve matching my speaker cables, and I was done for almost no extra money spent. While in the process of assembling my 'kit' on a weekend, I noticed that I had forgotten to order some shielding sleeve, so I just disassembled an old TV antenna cable, extracted its sleeving, doubled it, attached it one-sided at the preamp side, and that's it.

Maybe I'll repeat the process one day in future when I come across some really HQ USB plugs, with better insulation and maybe gold plated contacts. Don't think this will make an audible difference, though. Similar thought for shielding: I'm not so sure whether it's really required.

One advice if you should go for it: order an extra pair of USB plugs, if you're not so experienced in fast soldering: those USB contacts are so so tiny, you can easily burn the insulation of the cheaper types.

 

[Sonnie Parker]

I placed my Roon ROCK Intel NUC in another room that is on a different circuit than my AV room. The signal is via Ethernet. This might be something to consider if you have that capability. This should eliminate any potential interference.

I am referring to streaming music of course. If you are referring to movies, I suppose you could still do the same, but for Netflix, Amazon Prime, etc... I stream those thru my Roku Ultra 2020, and it's just not that critical as music for me.

 

[Grayson Dere]

I do not know about USB kits. So I just bought some USB Type A and B plugs from an ebay seller. I chose simple types from a German seller because I did not want to wait for gold plated types shipping from the US or China.

I had some PTFE-insulated copper wire left over from another project, added silver solder, shrink wrap and a cable sleeve matching my speaker cables, and I was done for almost no extra money spent. While in the process of assembling my 'kit' on a weekend, I noticed that I had forgotten to order some shielding sleeve, so I just disassembled an old TV antenna cable, extracted its sleeving, doubled it, attached it one-sided at the preamp side, and that's it.

Maybe I'll repeat the process one day in future when I come across some really HQ USB plugs, with better insulation and maybe gold plated contacts. Don't think this will make an audible difference, though. Similar thought for shielding: I'm not so sure whether it's really required.

One advice if you should go for it: order an extra pair of USB plugs, if you're not so experienced in fast soldering: those USB contacts are so so tiny, you can easily burn the insulation of the cheaper types.

View attachment 37107

That's an awesome looking USB cable! I totally want to try a project like this in the future : )

 

[simplex]

That's an awesome looking USB cable!

Thanks a lot! By the way: the final touch as shown on the photo is printable shrink wrap.