Dialing in HDR on a projector

[Todd Anderson]

One of my biggest frustrations with my new RS520 is it's 4K HDR performance. Not so much that the projector isn't capable of producing a great 4K/HDR image... but there's no baseline setting that makes every film look great. The route of the problem is a lack of standards in the film industry... every disc presents itself differently. But, ultimately, it's the projector's settings that need to make up for the issue.

The baseline HDR settings out of the box are simply unacceptable. Images are generally way too dark... loaded with crush...and colors are dull and lifeless. My method of combating this has been to bump brightness and/or increase contrast.

It works... but I don't think it's optimal.

I'm wondering if there are some gamma settings that can be tweaked?

Anyone have any insights or methods they'e used to attack this?

 

[Sonnie Parker]

Same issue here with my RS620. HDR needs work to just look acceptable.

I am almost to the point of turning off HDR and running Cinema mode, which looks better in many cases.

 

[Todd Anderson]

Have you changed picture controls while watching HDR?

I'm fairly certain there's an easy answer. I reached out to my THX instructor to see if he has any insights.

My gut is telling me that some simple tweaks to gamma and running the lamp on high is the answer. But that might include bumping brightness (and altering contrast)

 

[Sonnie Parker]

I've changed brightness and contrast... and from Cinema to HDR ... or the reverse.

 

[Todd Anderson]

Hang on... looks like I might get some settings...

 

[Sonnie Parker]

I'm like a monkey in a tree waiting to be fed.

 

[Todd Anderson]

So am I. ;-)

Answered a few questions... just waiting to hear back!

 

[mechman]

Normally I would know the answer to something like this but I have had zero exposure to any flavor of HDR. I would think that a simple brightness and contrast calibration would do the trick. I thought that they were coming out with a new Pluge pattern for HDR. Additionally, if you had a meter, grayscale calibration.

An early problem that I had heard about was that displays would use their own settings when fed HDR content. Have you guys noticed a change when going from SDR to HDR content?

 

[Todd Anderson]

I have all the gear and training to calibrate... just need to buy an add-on for HDR calibration.... It's looking like the answer has more to do with settings within Gamma. I'm hoping to get an answer from the guy that ran training when I received my LI/II THX cert. He had a few questions about screen size. I'll post back .

 

[mechman]

Was it Michael or Gregg?

 

[Todd Anderson]

Gregg... I do know Michael, haven't asked him. But Gregg said the JVC PJs are very tweakable for HDR.

I know that last year's models had a user bulletin issued because of owner complaints. That addressed gamma settings. But I'm not sure if that was corrected with this year's models.

i had eyeballed some contrast and brightness settings to make a movie watchable last week... but then I watched John Wick 2 this past weekend and the settings didn't translate well at all. The lack of standards and film presentation definitely affects performance, especially with these projectors (which already struggle to achieve usable HDR).

 

[mechman]

Which software package are you using? I didn't realize there was a HDR add-on. I have both CalMAN and Chromapure.

 

[Todd Anderson]

Chromapure... the most recent version is compatible. The "add-on" isn't an add-on for the software, but something to use in place of the now outdated signal generator that I have. There's a guy selling a USB stick with HDR patterns... there's also disc that you can buy with test patterns. Neither are ideal, but I'm not itching to drop another $2,500 on a new signal generator.

 

[mechman]

I wonder what the new patterns are? Do you have the same Accupel generator that I have? DVG-5000? Pretty sad if they won't upgrade them to cover HDR patterns considering what they cost.

 

[Todd Anderson]

Yup... the DVG-5000 is only suitable for Rec709 calibrations. :-/ I bought mine just months before it became apparent it was destined to be useless. That's a $2K hit that's left a bitter taste for sure! It's not upgradable.

 

[Todd Anderson]

Here's a link to the add-on disc:

http://rmadvancedcaldisc.com/rm-uhdhdr-10.html

It's a pain, tho, when used with Chromapure, because it doesn't integrate in an automated fashion like the signal generator.

 

[mechman]

Yeah I've gotten way too used to automation to even think about going back to a disc.

 

[Todd Anderson]

I know... it's like going back to candlelight.

I just can't see any justification for spending several thousand for a generator that's going to basically sit on a shelf in my workshop. I guess if you were calibrating for a living it would make sense...or reviewing...but seeing as though we're really early in the WCG/HDR game, buying gear now is just setting up a situation for potentially outdated gear. This disc is cheap enough that I'll buy it (or a USB stick version). Not ideal, though.

 

[Todd Anderson]

No word, yet, from Gregg. But I did get a link to an AVS thread from Ralph Potts (who runs an RS500). I'm wrapping up a review at the moment and haven't had time to look it. But, he confirmed the baseline settings for the JVC HDR are junk...and I'm fairly sure he implied that several different gamma settings need to be installed in order to take advantage of HDR/4K. I quickly glossed over the info, and it looks like it involves downloading the JVC calibration software and using a meter.

 

[Sonnie Parker]

When you get the settings figured out... you can let me know.

 

[Todd Anderson]

How frustrating, eh?

 

[Sonnie Parker]

I'm still fighting Roku 4K HDR issues as well.

 

[Todd Anderson]

So, didn't get a straight settings answer from Gregg (obviously it's really tough to get specific recommendations because every room, screen, screen size, bulb, etc are different), but he did confirm that the HDR Gamma D will help.

Here's a link to a help file posted by JVC for 2016 PJs:

http://www3.jvckenwood.com/english/...0r_xc6890r_xc5890r_rs600_rs500_rs400_uhd.html

Also, I did some poking around, and read that a reviewer measured THX mode as closest to reference standards for 1080p material... I'll confirm when I get to that magic number ;-) Just confirm that frame interpolation is off for that mode (it might be left on).

 

[mechman]

I plan on researching/catching up on a lot of this stuff over the weekend while the family is up at the cabin. The thing is, if you advertise HDR as a selling point for your display, then you should have a factory preset for the settings for that particular function. I can see not having anything for 4K, but not having a preset for HDR is silly.

 

[Michael Scott]

HDR is one of the worst nightmares of 4K. Even on my Samsung 8500 I had to FIGHT to get it looking right. Since there's no set standard for 4K calibration everything is guess, test and revise.

I hate to give creedance to another site, but the AVS thread for JVC 520/620 projectors has a lot of good information in it regarding calibration and baselines for the average viewer.